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	<title>Comments on: You Know You/They Are Wrong When&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Brother Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-7598</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-7598</guid>
		<description>Lets keep thing simple...

A cult is any teaching that creates a need for itself.  

What say you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets keep thing simple&#8230;</p>
<p>A cult is any teaching that creates a need for itself.  </p>
<p>What say you?</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5914</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5914</guid>
		<description>Michael,

There is a Monty Python skit breaking out &quot;over there.&quot; I think I am about to be banned for excessive disagreement.

Rod</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>There is a Monty Python skit breaking out &#8220;over there.&#8221; I think I am about to be banned for excessive disagreement.</p>
<p>Rod</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5912</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5912</guid>
		<description>dpaul:

I am highly reluctant to use the term, as it is vague and often inappropriate. In this instance, however, the repeated call for discussion of issues to cease and only approved discussions to take place is similar to the kind of control tactics used in cults. Guilt for reading the wrong books. Shame for being in discussions with &quot;outsiders.&quot; Assumed authoritarian superiority. On and on it goes. It&#039;s cultish in its approach and the word needs to be used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dpaul:</p>
<p>I am highly reluctant to use the term, as it is vague and often inappropriate. In this instance, however, the repeated call for discussion of issues to cease and only approved discussions to take place is similar to the kind of control tactics used in cults. Guilt for reading the wrong books. Shame for being in discussions with &#8220;outsiders.&#8221; Assumed authoritarian superiority. On and on it goes. It&#8217;s cultish in its approach and the word needs to be used.</p>
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		<title>By: 2m</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5911</link>
		<dc:creator>2m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5911</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;stkatheryne on April 19th, 2006 4:43 pm

That creeped me out. You just described what I came out of almost a decade ago…to a T (every single one of those). Those symptoms are totally true. If you see those in your church RUN…FAST. But make sure you run toward the cross. It’s the only place to safely stop running. I’m still out of breath but at least I’m not running anymore&lt;/i&gt;

You and me too stkateryne.  I left 3 years ago.  iMonk&#039;s points on cult-like Christian groups is right on the mark.

The blessing is that, having experienced the controlling manipulating cult, I so appreciate the church I attend now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>stkatheryne on April 19th, 2006 4:43 pm</p>
<p>That creeped me out. You just described what I came out of almost a decade ago…to a T (every single one of those). Those symptoms are totally true. If you see those in your church RUN…FAST. But make sure you run toward the cross. It’s the only place to safely stop running. I’m still out of breath but at least I’m not running anymore</i></p>
<p>You and me too stkateryne.  I left 3 years ago.  iMonk&#8217;s points on cult-like Christian groups is right on the mark.</p>
<p>The blessing is that, having experienced the controlling manipulating cult, I so appreciate the church I attend now.</p>
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		<title>By: dpaultaylor57</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5910</link>
		<dc:creator>dpaultaylor57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5910</guid>
		<description>I have never felt comfortable with the tendency to isolate and highlight certain groups with the label &quot;cult.&quot; Aside from the sinister connotations of the word, it is essentially a mirror image (or negation) of an artificial definition of who the faithful are, one that relies too heavily on belief in orthodox ideas only.

That tends toward pharisaism and self-righteousness and it&#039;s sorely lacking in mercy, among other things. Not to mention that it downplays the importance of actually obeying everything Jesus commanded, which is one of the standards he set for disciplemaking.

Label something a &quot;cult&quot; and it&#039;s automatically beyond the pale, and when this is combined with childish ideas about &quot;separation&quot; from what is sinful and wrong, it basically writes people off for good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never felt comfortable with the tendency to isolate and highlight certain groups with the label &#8220;cult.&#8221; Aside from the sinister connotations of the word, it is essentially a mirror image (or negation) of an artificial definition of who the faithful are, one that relies too heavily on belief in orthodox ideas only.</p>
<p>That tends toward pharisaism and self-righteousness and it&#8217;s sorely lacking in mercy, among other things. Not to mention that it downplays the importance of actually obeying everything Jesus commanded, which is one of the standards he set for disciplemaking.</p>
<p>Label something a &#8220;cult&#8221; and it&#8217;s automatically beyond the pale, and when this is combined with childish ideas about &#8220;separation&#8221; from what is sinful and wrong, it basically writes people off for good.</p>
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		<title>By: stkatheryne</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5907</link>
		<dc:creator>stkatheryne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5907</guid>
		<description>That creeped me out.  You just described what I came out of almost a decade ago...to a T (every single one of those).  Those symptoms are totally true.  If you see those in your church RUN...FAST.  But make sure you run toward the cross.  It&#039;s the only place to safely stop running.  I&#039;m still out of breath but at least I&#039;m not running anymore :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That creeped me out.  You just described what I came out of almost a decade ago&#8230;to a T (every single one of those).  Those symptoms are totally true.  If you see those in your church RUN&#8230;FAST.  But make sure you run toward the cross.  It&#8217;s the only place to safely stop running.  I&#8217;m still out of breath but at least I&#8217;m not running anymore <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5906</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5906</guid>
		<description>In case you missed it. Steve Camp has called N. T. Wright &quot;unregenerate.&quot; TR must also stand for &quot;truly regenerate.&quot; That&#039;s what I call a really limited atonement!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case you missed it. Steve Camp has called N. T. Wright &#8220;unregenerate.&#8221; TR must also stand for &#8220;truly regenerate.&#8221; That&#8217;s what I call a really limited atonement!</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Rod</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5905</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5905</guid>
		<description>I especially like #10.

The problem with the volume of comments over at that TR &quot;attack&quot; site is that it reinforces their perception that they are right. It inflates their arrogance.

By the way, has anyone ever met a humble TR? I see a lot of humility and self-depreciation at Christian blogs, but I haven&#039;t noticed it at a TR site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I especially like #10.</p>
<p>The problem with the volume of comments over at that TR &#8220;attack&#8221; site is that it reinforces their perception that they are right. It inflates their arrogance.</p>
<p>By the way, has anyone ever met a humble TR? I see a lot of humility and self-depreciation at Christian blogs, but I haven&#8217;t noticed it at a TR site.</p>
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		<title>By: James Thompson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5904</link>
		<dc:creator>James Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5904</guid>
		<description>Given your contextual clarification I find no reason to disagree with you myself. However, even in a broader Christian context there would need to be some sort of ground rules that define the parameters for conversation. Take the resurrection: Someone like J.D. Crossan who takes a very critical approach to the Bible wouldn&#039;t have much common ground with myself when discussing the resurrection since I reject almost all of his textual criticisms outright. And although we might be able to have a meaningful conversation about the validity or what not of his critical conclusions we couldn&#039;t really say much about the issue of the resurrection to each other because our underlying positions are far too different.

Much of the popular theological conversations are largely defined by lower level, but equally important, positions that if disagreed upon almost make meaningful discussion impossible. But that kind of issue has to be tackled as it comes, especially when holding &quot;public&quot; talks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given your contextual clarification I find no reason to disagree with you myself. However, even in a broader Christian context there would need to be some sort of ground rules that define the parameters for conversation. Take the resurrection: Someone like J.D. Crossan who takes a very critical approach to the Bible wouldn&#8217;t have much common ground with myself when discussing the resurrection since I reject almost all of his textual criticisms outright. And although we might be able to have a meaningful conversation about the validity or what not of his critical conclusions we couldn&#8217;t really say much about the issue of the resurrection to each other because our underlying positions are far too different.</p>
<p>Much of the popular theological conversations are largely defined by lower level, but equally important, positions that if disagreed upon almost make meaningful discussion impossible. But that kind of issue has to be tackled as it comes, especially when holding &#8220;public&#8221; talks.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when/comment-page-1#comment-5899</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/you-know-youthey-are-wrong-when#comment-5899</guid>
		<description>Remember that I am not discussing the curriculum of a seminary here. I am discussing what any group of persons interested in Christianity can talk about. In that case, our &quot;standard&quot; is our mutual interest. There is no need for an authority to declare who is right. We can read, talk, communicate, exchange ideas, listen, disagree and NEVER come to a conclusion.

In other contexts there needs to be an authority so we can agree on specifics in order to function in whatever ways are appropriate. So a community like OBI might have a grade scale, a student rulebook or a Confession of faith.

This grows out of the constant berating my other web site endures from some in the Reformed Baptist Camp saying that the discussion of _______________ shouldn&#039;t occur except in strict confessional boundaries, and those who do so are probably not Christians, are false teachers, etc. This is a cult tactic. It&#039;s an attempt at control that ought to be labelled inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember that I am not discussing the curriculum of a seminary here. I am discussing what any group of persons interested in Christianity can talk about. In that case, our &#8220;standard&#8221; is our mutual interest. There is no need for an authority to declare who is right. We can read, talk, communicate, exchange ideas, listen, disagree and NEVER come to a conclusion.</p>
<p>In other contexts there needs to be an authority so we can agree on specifics in order to function in whatever ways are appropriate. So a community like OBI might have a grade scale, a student rulebook or a Confession of faith.</p>
<p>This grows out of the constant berating my other web site endures from some in the Reformed Baptist Camp saying that the discussion of _______________ shouldn&#8217;t occur except in strict confessional boundaries, and those who do so are probably not Christians, are false teachers, etc. This is a cult tactic. It&#8217;s an attempt at control that ought to be labelled inappropriate.</p>
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