Comments on: “Will We Have To Leave?” http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:14:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Greg http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-1#comment-520978 Greg Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:12:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520978 Not arguing with your point, just your opening statement. We often hear that statement, but it probably says more about people who cohabitate than cohabitation. It's like saying kids in private schools do better than public school kids (so obviously public schools are lousy). But a parent who is concerned enough about their kid's education to fork over the money for a private school is much more likely to be involved in their education than the average parent. Likewise, people who wait until marriage to have sex or cohabitate are more likely to have values that would see divorce as undesirable. It's not the cohabitating that leads to higher divorce rates, it's the cohabitators. Not arguing with your point, just your opening statement. We often hear that statement, but it probably says more about people who cohabitate than cohabitation. It’s like saying kids in private schools do better than public school kids (so obviously public schools are lousy). But a parent who is concerned enough about their kid’s education to fork over the money for a private school is much more likely to be involved in their education than the average parent.

Likewise, people who wait until marriage to have sex or cohabitate are more likely to have values that would see divorce as undesirable. It’s not the cohabitating that leads to higher divorce rates, it’s the cohabitators.

]]> By: Greg http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520977 Greg Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:06:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520977 EXACTLY! EXACTLY!

]]> By: http://www.watches21.com http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520862 http://www.watches21.com Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:25:39 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520862 111 111

]]> By: Nathan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520803 Nathan Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:26:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520803 I've tried to read most of the comments. I find this discussion confusing because I think the matter is rather straightforward. The couple in the story are not, from what I can tell, claiming to be Christians. They are interested in coming to church. Coming to church does not make one a Christian. The church has a problem if they automatically equate presence on a Sunday with conversion. There are elements in church life that are for Christians (like the sacraments). Why a visiting couple would want to participate in these is beyond me. Cohabitation is clearly a sin. But shouldn't we expect non-Christians to be sinners? If we're talking about Christians it's a different issue - and if we're talking about serving in ministry the Bible is pretty clear on the character required for leaders in the church. I think any church with unrepentant sinners leading is in trouble. As much trouble as any church that doesn't welcome sinners through the doors. It didn't seem to me that the original post was about professing Christians who have lapsed into sin - more about professing sinners investigating Christ. What sort of church shuts its doors to these types of people? Why is this so hard? I’ve tried to read most of the comments. I find this discussion confusing because I think the matter is rather straightforward.

The couple in the story are not, from what I can tell, claiming to be Christians. They are interested in coming to church. Coming to church does not make one a Christian.

The church has a problem if they automatically equate presence on a Sunday with conversion.

There are elements in church life that are for Christians (like the sacraments). Why a visiting couple would want to participate in these is beyond me.

Cohabitation is clearly a sin. But shouldn’t we expect non-Christians to be sinners? If we’re talking about Christians it’s a different issue – and if we’re talking about serving in ministry the Bible is pretty clear on the character required for leaders in the church.

I think any church with unrepentant sinners leading is in trouble. As much trouble as any church that doesn’t welcome sinners through the doors.

It didn’t seem to me that the original post was about professing Christians who have lapsed into sin – more about professing sinners investigating Christ. What sort of church shuts its doors to these types of people?

Why is this so hard?

]]> By: Clark http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520775 Clark Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:03:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520775 Jesus wasn't welcome at church either. They once tried to stone him, once tried to throw him off a cliff, and finally did crucify him. (He was born out of wedlock, you know.) Jesus wasn’t welcome at church either. They once tried to stone him, once tried to throw him off a cliff, and finally did crucify him. (He was born out of wedlock, you know.)

]]> By: Waltizing Matilda http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520648 Waltizing Matilda Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:41:14 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520648 I don't understand cohabitation. I also think, if you're cohabitating, you're married for all intensive purposes. Why not go ahead and make it legal? My son and his girlfriend live together. I always introduce his girlfriend as "my daughter-in-law." It's just my little way of making it known how I feel about the situation. I don’t understand cohabitation. I also think, if you’re cohabitating, you’re married for all intensive purposes. Why not go ahead and make it legal?

My son and his girlfriend live together. I always introduce his girlfriend as “my daughter-in-law.” It’s just my little way of making it known how I feel about the situation.

]]> By: Cindy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-1#comment-520647 Cindy Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:24:42 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520647 Saraho, your post (and your existence) touch on something I often think of. We know God has his plan, and that his will will be done. It seems that he has mostly left it up to us whether we are partners or adversaries in how he will accomplish his will. Your parents did things that were perhaps outside of God's will, and they had to live with some of the consequences of that, but they were also still blessed, because he used them to accomplish part of his will (bringing you into the world). Saraho, your post (and your existence) touch on something I often think of. We know God has his plan, and that his will will be done. It seems that he has mostly left it up to us whether we are partners or adversaries in how he will accomplish his will. Your parents did things that were perhaps outside of God’s will, and they had to live with some of the consequences of that, but they were also still blessed, because he used them to accomplish part of his will (bringing you into the world).

]]> By: Derek http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-1#comment-520633 Derek Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:54:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520633 Are we not under the New Covenant any more? Has Christ not paid the price for us? I think God hates your judgment of people as much as He hates me being obese. Get the 2x4 out. Are we not under the New Covenant any more? Has Christ not paid the price for us?

I think God hates your judgment of people as much as He hates me being obese.

Get the 2×4 out.

]]> By: Aaron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-2#comment-520631 Aaron Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:57:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520631 "Co-habitation makes me a little less nervous than your grandmother, but not significantly." Why does my grandmother make you nervous? What's wrong with her, Michael? [....kidding....] “Co-habitation makes me a little less nervous than your grandmother, but not significantly.”

Why does my grandmother make you nervous? What’s wrong with her, Michael?

[....kidding....]

]]> By: Michelle http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/will-we-have-to-leave/comment-page-1#comment-520552 Michelle Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:31:28 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5125#comment-520552 Well, I know I'm coming really late to this conversation, but I'm just mortified by this statement: "There is no real membership to withhold anymore, so that’s out as a spiritual tool for encouraging conviction and repentance." The idea that a manmade, legalistic thing such as 'church membership' should be called a "spiritual tool" and used as the hammer of judgement upon sinners is just appalling. Such judgement does not lead people to true heart repentance, it just leads them back to into the box of legalism. Well, I know I’m coming really late to this conversation, but I’m just mortified by this statement:
“There is no real membership to withhold anymore, so that’s out as a spiritual tool for encouraging conviction and repentance.”

The idea that a manmade, legalistic thing such as ‘church membership’ should be called a “spiritual tool” and used as the hammer of judgement upon sinners is just appalling. Such judgement does not lead people to true heart repentance, it just leads them back to into the box of legalism.

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