<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why Isn&#8217;t The Gospel Front Page News?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:19:56 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: pari de casino en ligne</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-304744</link>
		<dc:creator>pari de casino en ligne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-304744</guid>
		<description>Thank you for opening a wonderfully new sight..I wish you the best of luck with your new venture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for opening a wonderfully new sight..I wish you the best of luck with your new venture.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-130317</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-130317</guid>
		<description>Comment from one of the threads in Slacktivist&#039;s page-by-page &lt;i&gt;Left Behind&lt;/i&gt; review that might have some bearing on &quot;Wretched Urgency&quot; Evangelism monomania.  Taken at face value and in isolation, Wretched Urgency/Walk the Aisle uber Alles is absurd:

&lt;i&gt;And you&#039;ve totally put your finger on the manner in which LB theology is bankrupt. LaHaye &amp; Jenkins would have us believe that the entire message of Christianity is &quot;say the &#039;sinner&#039;s prayer&#039; and you&#039;ll go to heaven when you die or when Jesus beams you up,&quot; and all Christians are supposed to do BEFORE they die or Jesus beams them up is tell everyone that they need to say the &quot;sinner&#039;s prayer&quot; before they die or Jesus beams them up. Makes you wonder why God bothered to create the universe at all, let alone call it good, if this life is nothing but a kind of dress rehearsal for at best or demonic distraction at worst from the next life. -- Sarah Dylan Breuer&lt;/i&gt;

It takes God, Christ, and the Cosmos (which God said &quot;was good&quot;) and turns it all into a single sound bite.  You&#039;re going to lose something in the condensation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment from one of the threads in Slacktivist&#8217;s page-by-page <i>Left Behind</i> review that might have some bearing on &#8220;Wretched Urgency&#8221; Evangelism monomania.  Taken at face value and in isolation, Wretched Urgency/Walk the Aisle uber Alles is absurd:</p>
<p><i>And you&#8217;ve totally put your finger on the manner in which LB theology is bankrupt. LaHaye &amp; Jenkins would have us believe that the entire message of Christianity is &#8220;say the &#8217;sinner&#8217;s prayer&#8217; and you&#8217;ll go to heaven when you die or when Jesus beams you up,&#8221; and all Christians are supposed to do BEFORE they die or Jesus beams them up is tell everyone that they need to say the &#8220;sinner&#8217;s prayer&#8221; before they die or Jesus beams them up. Makes you wonder why God bothered to create the universe at all, let alone call it good, if this life is nothing but a kind of dress rehearsal for at best or demonic distraction at worst from the next life. &#8212; Sarah Dylan Breuer</i></p>
<p>It takes God, Christ, and the Cosmos (which God said &#8220;was good&#8221;) and turns it all into a single sound bite.  You&#8217;re going to lose something in the condensation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-130093</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-130093</guid>
		<description>One of the best ways I&#039;ve heard it and is the heart of Luther was this concerning the Gospel:

The Gospel is not that Christ was born, that He died, or even that He rose on the third day.  We can talk all day about all the wonderful, amazing, miraculous things that Jesus did and does today - and it still wouldn&#039;t be the Gospel.  The Gospel is the proclamation of Christ and Him crucified FOR YOU.  The Gospel is in the FOR YOU.  Everything that Jesus did, He did FOR YOU!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the best ways I&#8217;ve heard it and is the heart of Luther was this concerning the Gospel:</p>
<p>The Gospel is not that Christ was born, that He died, or even that He rose on the third day.  We can talk all day about all the wonderful, amazing, miraculous things that Jesus did and does today &#8211; and it still wouldn&#8217;t be the Gospel.  The Gospel is the proclamation of Christ and Him crucified FOR YOU.  The Gospel is in the FOR YOU.  Everything that Jesus did, He did FOR YOU!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129993</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129993</guid>
		<description>Otherwise, the Gospel becomes nothing more than the Amway product allegedly being sold by the &quot;save souls who then save more souls who then save more souls&quot; Wretched Urgency pyramid scheme.

Then comes the one-upmanship over who has Saved More Souls, i.e. who has the most notches on their Bible...

(Also, what is this about &quot;Saving Souls&quot;?  Isn&#039;t the Christian afterlife supposed to be Resurrection of the BODY?  That a detached soul is somehow incomplete until it gets its body back on the Last Day?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otherwise, the Gospel becomes nothing more than the Amway product allegedly being sold by the &#8220;save souls who then save more souls who then save more souls&#8221; Wretched Urgency pyramid scheme.</p>
<p>Then comes the one-upmanship over who has Saved More Souls, i.e. who has the most notches on their Bible&#8230;</p>
<p>(Also, what is this about &#8220;Saving Souls&#8221;?  Isn&#8217;t the Christian afterlife supposed to be Resurrection of the BODY?  That a detached soul is somehow incomplete until it gets its body back on the Last Day?)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Corinne</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129972</link>
		<dc:creator>Corinne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129972</guid>
		<description>Keepin&#039; the Gospel on the front page:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/EN1/Articolo.asp?c=154057&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Yet if we now turn once more to the Gospel, we realize that the Lord is not speaking merely of a few individuals and their specific task; the essence of what he says applies to everyone. The heart of the matter he expresses elsewhere in these words: “For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?” (Lk 9:24f.). Whoever wants to keep his life just for himself will lose it. Only by giving ourselves do we receive our life. In other words: only the one who loves discovers life. And love always demands going out of oneself, it demands leaving oneself. Anyone who looks just to himself, who wants the other only for himself, will lose both himself and the other. Without this profound losing of oneself, there is no life. The restless craving for life, so widespread among people today, leads to the barrenness of a lost life. “Whoever loses his life for my sake … ”, says the Lord: a radical letting-go of our self is only possible if in the process we end up, not by falling into the void, but into the hands of Love eternal. Only the love of God, who loses himself for us and gives himself to us, makes it possible for us also to become free, to let go, and so truly to find life. This is the heart of what the Lord wants to say to us in the seemingly hard words of this Sunday’s Gospel. With his teaching he gives us the certainty that we can build on his love, the love of the incarnate God. Recognition of this is the wisdom of which today’s reading speaks. Once again, we find that all the world’s learning profits us nothing unless we learn to live, unless we discover what truly matters in life. &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keepin&#8217; the Gospel on the front page:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/EN1/Articolo.asp?c=154057" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
<p><i>Yet if we now turn once more to the Gospel, we realize that the Lord is not speaking merely of a few individuals and their specific task; the essence of what he says applies to everyone. The heart of the matter he expresses elsewhere in these words: “For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?” (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Lk+9" class="bibleref" title="ESV Lk 9">Lk 9</a>:24f.). Whoever wants to keep his life just for himself will lose it. Only by giving ourselves do we receive our life. In other words: only the one who loves discovers life. And love always demands going out of oneself, it demands leaving oneself. Anyone who looks just to himself, who wants the other only for himself, will lose both himself and the other. Without this profound losing of oneself, there is no life. The restless craving for life, so widespread among people today, leads to the barrenness of a lost life. “Whoever loses his life for my sake … ”, says the Lord: a radical letting-go of our self is only possible if in the process we end up, not by falling into the void, but into the hands of Love eternal. Only the love of God, who loses himself for us and gives himself to us, makes it possible for us also to become free, to let go, and so truly to find life. This is the heart of what the Lord wants to say to us in the seemingly hard words of this Sunday’s Gospel. With his teaching he gives us the certainty that we can build on his love, the love of the incarnate God. Recognition of this is the wisdom of which today’s reading speaks. Once again, we find that all the world’s learning profits us nothing unless we learn to live, unless we discover what truly matters in life. </i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129828</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129828</guid>
		<description>Jay,

That’s not at all a bad point, in fact it’s a great one.  One of the things lost is the concept of simul Justus et peccator which is just a $50 Latin phrase for simultaneously just and sinner.  Now most would say “yes” to this but mean 50%/50% or some divvying up of 100%.  But what is missed is that simultaneousness is 100% and 100%.  This is why Paul for example saw himself MORE the sinner as his life progressed.

The ole “he needs to get saved” crap that me and my wife separately grew up around was always in this light:  Such and such a person in the town/area has a pretty rough life style, maybe he/she is divorced several times, out of wedlock kids, any number of the “negative sins”.  In polite “Christian” conversation (I use the brackets because its not Christian) some brilliant genius pipes up, “He/she just needs to ‘get saved’”.  Meaning primarily if not only, morally improved by some form of conversion (false conversion in reality, a twice the son of hell as Jesus put it).  But that type of Christian that says that just really doesn’t see their need.  They are confounded if told, “You know your good polished works will send you to hell”.  They are confounded if you say, “the man of real faith really NEVER concerns himself about his works but finds it sufficient that he suffer by faith so that the Cross is all the more to him and he dies all the more.”  They REALLY don’t understand that “dying to self” means “trying to sanctify or make assured myself by my religious doings”.  Luther captured it well when he said that he meant that to be a Christian was to bring a halt to all “getting better” programs.  Because those indulging themselves in such “getting better programs” are really the apex of sinful flesh.  For they ONLY do good works to ultimately and selfishly (the heart of sin) make improvement upon themselves.  See only Christ could give of Himself without any gain to Himself for He was not in a state of sin.

E.g. Say you have a person who is outwardly humble and he gives and gives and gives of himself.  But then you face him up with it, the Law, and you make him see that all he does is nothing but sin, God will not accept it at all and all he procures to his lot is really robbing glory from God.  He then begins to fume and rage over this with you, but really God, and is utterly repulsed that alllll he did, does and will due gains nothing at all.  In fact he’s all the more damned for it, worse it bears witness to his martyrdom to perdition.  Then you begin to see his hidden flesh’s intent, he only did this to save, sanctify or assure himself of heaven.  He never REALLY did it altruistically for his neighbor, the heart of the second part of the Law, but for himself.  Once the reward is removed from it and in fact the punishment for it is given, he reveals the evil intent of his heart.  But what is annexed to his account is his hearts intent, not the outward good work.  The outward good work is merely the Law of God still yielding good in spite of  the heart of the instrument, man, doing it selfishly.  The Law of God still yields a common grace to men, even though men attempt to selfishly annex merit to themselves by it.  So, a double damnation is seen and the heart of fallen man is truly revealed for he takes the good of the Law and seeks to gain merit for himself by it - the Law is altruistic in its very nature and so operates.  However, in the hand of us merit mongers and god makers of ourselves, we take an altruistic love and turn it into a selfish operation for ourselves.  Keep in mind that “what we do” in our various callings in life (worker, husband, wife, son, daughter, candlestick maker, etc…) IS the physical manifestation of the Law.  That is the offices we hold, our callings and all are godly calling assuming legitimate.  Yet, within that very calling we procure for ourselves merit toward God.

The thing that keeps man from free grace, truly, is nothing more than this very thing, man naturally fallen cannot ascend to accept free grace, man is always trying to “do” for himself.  And in this paradigm the most dangerous works are the “highest looking” most “good works”.  Nothing wrong with the works themselves, it’s the Law.  But it’s the glory of the BEST of them that is dangerous to us and MOST keeps us from Christ alone.  No man will dare say, “By murdering a man I deserve reward/heaven”, but MANY men can and do think in their hearts, “I’m doing a GREAT work, this church yard duty”.  This is why some of the works held highest are always for example evangelism and mission (again nothing wrong with these).  But the glory given to these only by men and not to say the garbage man or fast food cook show our bewitchment to works over Christ crucified.  Few really believe or know that the later are just a glorious to God.  Its one of the reasons the European reformers could say that all the angels of heaven sing when the father changes their babies diaper for it is such a great good work (this is James’ point by the way).  Why?  Because that’s not a ‘gloriously’ viewed work by men in juxtaposition with being a doctor or missionary.  But the cheering in heaven comes from the fact that such a man is REALLY and truly exercising LIVING faith as opposed to dead pretend faith.  For only such faith DARE to just do what is before its hands for the neighbor, the baby in this case, a work that is not glorious in the eyes of men.  

Christianity at its hear is not a move from immorality to morality, but a move from morality to grace.  And what is lost in the “get saved” notion is that THIS is a continuous thing in the Christian life.  Faith by its very definition and nature, true living saving faith, lay in the constant tension of trusting while it does not realize what it trusts in.  In a sense in this life with the flesh STILL here, our sins and struggles with them are a kind of alien blessing to us, a thorn in the flesh.  Because they constantly keep us reminded that the life we live today we live PURELY by faith, trust, in Christ Who died and gave himself for me.  AND NOT my improvement, which is deadly and against faith.

If you are ever around a person or group that’s into any form of “self improvement” scheme in the church you will note one thing well about their conversation.  They NEVER cease to speak of themselves, either their so called conviction of sins and need to do better.  And what is this but giving fame, glory, to themselves.  Christians ought to be notable as to their speech of Christ and His sufficiency, HIS fame/glory, not one’s self.  But we speak of that which we desire to make most famous or glorious do we not.

Larry KY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay,</p>
<p>That’s not at all a bad point, in fact it’s a great one.  One of the things lost is the concept of simul Justus et peccator which is just a $50 Latin phrase for simultaneously just and sinner.  Now most would say “yes” to this but mean 50%/50% or some divvying up of 100%.  But what is missed is that simultaneousness is 100% and 100%.  This is why Paul for example saw himself MORE the sinner as his life progressed.</p>
<p>The ole “he needs to get saved” crap that me and my wife separately grew up around was always in this light:  Such and such a person in the town/area has a pretty rough life style, maybe he/she is divorced several times, out of wedlock kids, any number of the “negative sins”.  In polite “Christian” conversation (I use the brackets because its not Christian) some brilliant genius pipes up, “He/she just needs to ‘get saved’”.  Meaning primarily if not only, morally improved by some form of conversion (false conversion in reality, a twice the son of hell as Jesus put it).  But that type of Christian that says that just really doesn’t see their need.  They are confounded if told, “You know your good polished works will send you to hell”.  They are confounded if you say, “the man of real faith really NEVER concerns himself about his works but finds it sufficient that he suffer by faith so that the Cross is all the more to him and he dies all the more.”  They REALLY don’t understand that “dying to self” means “trying to sanctify or make assured myself by my religious doings”.  Luther captured it well when he said that he meant that to be a Christian was to bring a halt to all “getting better” programs.  Because those indulging themselves in such “getting better programs” are really the apex of sinful flesh.  For they ONLY do good works to ultimately and selfishly (the heart of sin) make improvement upon themselves.  See only Christ could give of Himself without any gain to Himself for He was not in a state of sin.</p>
<p>E.g. Say you have a person who is outwardly humble and he gives and gives and gives of himself.  But then you face him up with it, the Law, and you make him see that all he does is nothing but sin, God will not accept it at all and all he procures to his lot is really robbing glory from God.  He then begins to fume and rage over this with you, but really God, and is utterly repulsed that alllll he did, does and will due gains nothing at all.  In fact he’s all the more damned for it, worse it bears witness to his martyrdom to perdition.  Then you begin to see his hidden flesh’s intent, he only did this to save, sanctify or assure himself of heaven.  He never REALLY did it altruistically for his neighbor, the heart of the second part of the Law, but for himself.  Once the reward is removed from it and in fact the punishment for it is given, he reveals the evil intent of his heart.  But what is annexed to his account is his hearts intent, not the outward good work.  The outward good work is merely the Law of God still yielding good in spite of  the heart of the instrument, man, doing it selfishly.  The Law of God still yields a common grace to men, even though men attempt to selfishly annex merit to themselves by it.  So, a double damnation is seen and the heart of fallen man is truly revealed for he takes the good of the Law and seeks to gain merit for himself by it &#8211; the Law is altruistic in its very nature and so operates.  However, in the hand of us merit mongers and god makers of ourselves, we take an altruistic love and turn it into a selfish operation for ourselves.  Keep in mind that “what we do” in our various callings in life (worker, husband, wife, son, daughter, candlestick maker, etc…) IS the physical manifestation of the Law.  That is the offices we hold, our callings and all are godly calling assuming legitimate.  Yet, within that very calling we procure for ourselves merit toward God.</p>
<p>The thing that keeps man from free grace, truly, is nothing more than this very thing, man naturally fallen cannot ascend to accept free grace, man is always trying to “do” for himself.  And in this paradigm the most dangerous works are the “highest looking” most “good works”.  Nothing wrong with the works themselves, it’s the Law.  But it’s the glory of the BEST of them that is dangerous to us and MOST keeps us from Christ alone.  No man will dare say, “By murdering a man I deserve reward/heaven”, but MANY men can and do think in their hearts, “I’m doing a GREAT work, this church yard duty”.  This is why some of the works held highest are always for example evangelism and mission (again nothing wrong with these).  But the glory given to these only by men and not to say the garbage man or fast food cook show our bewitchment to works over Christ crucified.  Few really believe or know that the later are just a glorious to God.  Its one of the reasons the European reformers could say that all the angels of heaven sing when the father changes their babies diaper for it is such a great good work (this is James’ point by the way).  Why?  Because that’s not a ‘gloriously’ viewed work by men in juxtaposition with being a doctor or missionary.  But the cheering in heaven comes from the fact that such a man is REALLY and truly exercising LIVING faith as opposed to dead pretend faith.  For only such faith DARE to just do what is before its hands for the neighbor, the baby in this case, a work that is not glorious in the eyes of men.  </p>
<p>Christianity at its hear is not a move from immorality to morality, but a move from morality to grace.  And what is lost in the “get saved” notion is that THIS is a continuous thing in the Christian life.  Faith by its very definition and nature, true living saving faith, lay in the constant tension of trusting while it does not realize what it trusts in.  In a sense in this life with the flesh STILL here, our sins and struggles with them are a kind of alien blessing to us, a thorn in the flesh.  Because they constantly keep us reminded that the life we live today we live PURELY by faith, trust, in Christ Who died and gave himself for me.  AND NOT my improvement, which is deadly and against faith.</p>
<p>If you are ever around a person or group that’s into any form of “self improvement” scheme in the church you will note one thing well about their conversation.  They NEVER cease to speak of themselves, either their so called conviction of sins and need to do better.  And what is this but giving fame, glory, to themselves.  Christians ought to be notable as to their speech of Christ and His sufficiency, HIS fame/glory, not one’s self.  But we speak of that which we desire to make most famous or glorious do we not.</p>
<p>Larry KY</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jay H</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129814</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129814</guid>
		<description>Look, take anything I say with a grain of salt the size of a VW Rabbit if you like, but the thing that Larry KY observed --

&lt;i&gt;&quot;When I speak to people in general, non-Christians out there and they answer what is Christianity, its some form of moralism or ‘get better’ religion utterly indistinguishable from ANY other religion on the face of the earth.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

-- is the inevitable result of a theology that puts its emphasis on &quot;getting saved,&quot; meaning gaining entrance to heaven and escaping hell.

(1) Christians far and wide make it their mission to lead people to &quot;get saved,&quot; and make all manner of noise about it. Tracts everywhere. (2) The missional target, having heard the call, looks at the church, attempting to discern what differentiates those inside (those who claim to be &quot;heaven-bound&quot;) from those outside, and sees that they clearly put great stock in living a different sort of life (and, depending on whom they observe, see the different life either lived with integrity or gestured to hypocritically). (3) The conclusion is reached. (4) The finer details -- how accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as payment for one&#039;s own sins leads to a desire to live a life doing God&#039;s will, not the other way around -- are not heard because Christians can&#039;t agree on the basics &lt;b&gt;and&lt;/b&gt; can&#039;t agree to disagree (Calvinism vs Arminianism, Catholics vs Protestants, filioque clause, etc) but instead all insist on acting like they&#039;ve got it figured out and their Christian brethren are wrong. Oh, and when large numbers of us do agree, we still don&#039;t get the message out because &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007/08/20/what-you-can-learn-from-calvin-and-hobbes-about-the-message-and-the-medium/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it won&#039;t fit on a t-shirt&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m seriously beginning to wonder if the modern Christian emphasis on &quot;getting to heaven&quot; isn&#039;t a large part of the problem. The reality of Matthew 7:21-23 spits in the face of &quot;promises of assurance&quot; anyway, doesn&#039;t it? Why can&#039;t we just do the will of God without having a guarantee that it&#039;s going to get us on the plane without the snakes? Seems to me that once we do that, our worship will finally stop being about us and start being about God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, take anything I say with a grain of salt the size of a VW Rabbit if you like, but the thing that Larry KY observed &#8211;</p>
<p><i>&#8220;When I speak to people in general, non-Christians out there and they answer what is Christianity, its some form of moralism or ‘get better’ religion utterly indistinguishable from ANY other religion on the face of the earth.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>&#8211; is the inevitable result of a theology that puts its emphasis on &#8220;getting saved,&#8221; meaning gaining entrance to heaven and escaping hell.</p>
<p>(1) Christians far and wide make it their mission to lead people to &#8220;get saved,&#8221; and make all manner of noise about it. Tracts everywhere. (2) The missional target, having heard the call, looks at the church, attempting to discern what differentiates those inside (those who claim to be &#8220;heaven-bound&#8221;) from those outside, and sees that they clearly put great stock in living a different sort of life (and, depending on whom they observe, see the different life either lived with integrity or gestured to hypocritically). (3) The conclusion is reached. (4) The finer details &#8212; how accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as payment for one&#8217;s own sins leads to a desire to live a life doing God&#8217;s will, not the other way around &#8212; are not heard because Christians can&#8217;t agree on the basics <b>and</b> can&#8217;t agree to disagree (Calvinism vs Arminianism, Catholics vs Protestants, filioque clause, etc) but instead all insist on acting like they&#8217;ve got it figured out and their Christian brethren are wrong. Oh, and when large numbers of us do agree, we still don&#8217;t get the message out because <a href="http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007/08/20/what-you-can-learn-from-calvin-and-hobbes-about-the-message-and-the-medium/" rel="nofollow">it won&#8217;t fit on a t-shirt</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m seriously beginning to wonder if the modern Christian emphasis on &#8220;getting to heaven&#8221; isn&#8217;t a large part of the problem. The reality of <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Matthew+7%3A21-23" class="bibleref" title="ESV Matthew 7:21-23">Matthew 7:21-23</a> spits in the face of &#8220;promises of assurance&#8221; anyway, doesn&#8217;t it? Why can&#8217;t we just do the will of God without having a guarantee that it&#8217;s going to get us on the plane without the snakes? Seems to me that once we do that, our worship will finally stop being about us and start being about God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129808</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129808</guid>
		<description>Caplight,

I&#039;d say yes and to bring that full tilt it is because the Law itself is not brought to bear in full swing such that the conscience of the hearer doesn&#039;t hear his/her real need.  In short if &#039;I can still DO something&#039; then the Gospel is not that good to me, rather the gospel + me is what I think I need.  As long as pastors preach law light or local church cult law, the house rules, then the gospel is not that good to you.

If one doesn&#039;t see that from nature one is condemned whether you do external good or bad, then the Gospel is meaningless.  One must be brought to see that God is not turned toward our doing, before or after conversion.  The love of God, unlike man&#039;s false love, CALLS INTO BEING that which it will love.  That is it loves the unlovable and is creative in power.  This is the Gospel.  The love of man COMES INTO BEING by the object it seeks out, that is it only &quot;loves&quot; the lovable thing it seeks out.  So man loves only &quot;good works&quot; and creates for itself an idol called &quot;God&quot; when it thinks God too is so moved, but this is really an idol.  An idol that says in a sense, &quot;If I were God, this is what I&#039;d love, approve of, and shower blessing upon&quot;, those who only do &quot;good works&quot; as I see them.  But God says, &quot;Here is My Son, I love the world in THIS way, HERE is MY Son Crucified for you Who are unlovable in ANY sense of the Word.&quot;

Thus, as Luther rightly points out God shows Himself to be true Creator AT the Cross by calling into being that which is not, faith from the dead to God.

If the Law is not being preached in a killing way to ALL false saints and open sinners then its not THE Law.  But just mindless ranting and foolish hellfire babbling.  IF the Law is not preached such that ALL loop holes are closed to EVERY single hearer, then you have NOT heard the Law.  If you can find &quot;wiggle room&quot; you have not heard the Law.  And if you&#039;ve not really heard the Law, air tight Law, killing Law, THEN the Good News will not really be GOOD news.

Finally, the Good News is only Good News if you have both Christ dying FOR your sins and giving you all righteousness such that literally NOTHING is left for you to do.  If your Gospel has never garnered the accusation of &quot;antinomianism&quot;, then you&#039;ve not preached the Gospel at all (Loyd Jones recognized this).

Pure Law and Pure Gospel.  But this is counter intuitive to the reason of the natural man, the folly of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.  It is weak to the natural &quot;getting better&quot; try harder systems out there, but the weakness of God is stronger than the strength of man.

L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caplight,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say yes and to bring that full tilt it is because the Law itself is not brought to bear in full swing such that the conscience of the hearer doesn&#8217;t hear his/her real need.  In short if &#8216;I can still DO something&#8217; then the Gospel is not that good to me, rather the gospel + me is what I think I need.  As long as pastors preach law light or local church cult law, the house rules, then the gospel is not that good to you.</p>
<p>If one doesn&#8217;t see that from nature one is condemned whether you do external good or bad, then the Gospel is meaningless.  One must be brought to see that God is not turned toward our doing, before or after conversion.  The love of God, unlike man&#8217;s false love, CALLS INTO BEING that which it will love.  That is it loves the unlovable and is creative in power.  This is the Gospel.  The love of man COMES INTO BEING by the object it seeks out, that is it only &#8220;loves&#8221; the lovable thing it seeks out.  So man loves only &#8220;good works&#8221; and creates for itself an idol called &#8220;God&#8221; when it thinks God too is so moved, but this is really an idol.  An idol that says in a sense, &#8220;If I were God, this is what I&#8217;d love, approve of, and shower blessing upon&#8221;, those who only do &#8220;good works&#8221; as I see them.  But God says, &#8220;Here is My Son, I love the world in THIS way, HERE is MY Son Crucified for you Who are unlovable in ANY sense of the Word.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thus, as Luther rightly points out God shows Himself to be true Creator AT the Cross by calling into being that which is not, faith from the dead to God.</p>
<p>If the Law is not being preached in a killing way to ALL false saints and open sinners then its not THE Law.  But just mindless ranting and foolish hellfire babbling.  IF the Law is not preached such that ALL loop holes are closed to EVERY single hearer, then you have NOT heard the Law.  If you can find &#8220;wiggle room&#8221; you have not heard the Law.  And if you&#8217;ve not really heard the Law, air tight Law, killing Law, THEN the Good News will not really be GOOD news.</p>
<p>Finally, the Good News is only Good News if you have both Christ dying FOR your sins and giving you all righteousness such that literally NOTHING is left for you to do.  If your Gospel has never garnered the accusation of &#8220;antinomianism&#8221;, then you&#8217;ve not preached the Gospel at all (Loyd Jones recognized this).</p>
<p>Pure Law and Pure Gospel.  But this is counter intuitive to the reason of the natural man, the folly of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.  It is weak to the natural &#8220;getting better&#8221; try harder systems out there, but the weakness of God is stronger than the strength of man.</p>
<p>L</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129784</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129784</guid>
		<description>Graeme Goldsworthy is great.  Edmond Clowney is another.  

But in paradigm reading Martin Luther and really digesting what he&#039;s saying, I&#039;d start with his HD that draws out the difference between a theology of Glory (fallen religion by ANY name, even biblical or &quot;christian&quot;) versus theology of Cross.  The best on that is Gerharde Forde&#039;s &quot;On Being A Theologian of the Cross&quot;, you&#039;ll never stop chewing on this small treatment of Luther&#039;s HD.  That’s when you begin to see Christ more and more in the text without direct mention.  Rather than “what do we do” to “what did Jesus DO”.  Luther drew this not from his imagination but from Scripture.  As long as one reads the Bible as a prescription book and not seeing Christ in it - it will be closed to one.

E.g. all of us see some of the obvious OT types and shadows like Gen. 3:15 where God’s seed will be bruised on the heel crushing the head, killing, of Satan.  That type and shadow of Christ is throughout the OT so that we can see Christ again for example in Joshua.  After Joshua (type and shadow of Christ) and Israel (type and shadow of Christ) take over all the land and kill all the kings of the promised land he has Israel (type and shadow of Christ) put their foot on the necks of the dead kings, who where just “hung on a tree” and “cursed of God” (he who hangs on a tree…).  But the paradox of the Cross is this, while that shows the head of the serpent (kings of this fallen world and as such under Satan and their various kingdoms) being crushed, Israel’s (type and shadow of Christ) foot on their necks having been just accursed of God by defeat and hanging on the tree – It will be Jesus, the King of the kingdom of God coming and dawning, that will ‘hang on the tree’ (the Cross) taking the curse of God for His people.  By this great paradox He will “crush the head of the serpent” and gain victory, but it looks like losing.  The physical promise land is of course a type and shadow of the real kingdom of God, heaven, the city of God now dawning in part and will consummate at the second advent.  The whole book of Joshua is pregnant with type and shadow of Christ or Christ in all of Scripture to put it another way.  The Israelites actually killing ALL the kings of Canaan (fallen man’s city, Satan’s rule, fallen religion, etc…) in the promise land (earthly) are felled by Israel (type and shadow of Christ) and Joshua (type and shadow of Christ) and do inherent the land (type and shadow of the kingdom coming and to come even today inaugurated at Calvary):  THIS portrays the resurrection, yet to come, even for us at the second coming of Jesus our king.

I’m mean the WHOLE bible is about Christ, every part of it.  It is so rich in Christ for us the more I read it the more faith is built.  I use to read it and never find comfort, but now!

When the proverbs speak they are speaking mainly that Christ alone has done them, the embodiment of them for us.  The Psalms literally cry out Jesus in so many ways there’s hardly time to type it here.

I’d start with Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation, particularly Forde’s short but packed treatment of it.  It really diagnoses the issue of the two religions in the world so that one really will see what sin really is and what grace really is.  Then I’d move on to some other books.  One really has to begin to grasp the problem we ALL have in reading the bible as an instruction or prescription book rather than Christ in all of Scripture.  Because Jesus says it’s all about Him.

I could wax on this all day long its so exciting!  But this is Michael’s blog and I have a tendency to go long, too long most times!

Blessings,

Larry KY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graeme Goldsworthy is great.  Edmond Clowney is another.  </p>
<p>But in paradigm reading Martin Luther and really digesting what he&#8217;s saying, I&#8217;d start with his HD that draws out the difference between a theology of Glory (fallen religion by ANY name, even biblical or &#8220;christian&#8221;) versus theology of Cross.  The best on that is Gerharde Forde&#8217;s &#8220;On Being A Theologian of the Cross&#8221;, you&#8217;ll never stop chewing on this small treatment of Luther&#8217;s HD.  That’s when you begin to see Christ more and more in the text without direct mention.  Rather than “what do we do” to “what did Jesus DO”.  Luther drew this not from his imagination but from Scripture.  As long as one reads the Bible as a prescription book and not seeing Christ in it &#8211; it will be closed to one.</p>
<p>E.g. all of us see some of the obvious OT types and shadows like <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gen.+3%3A15" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gen 3:15">Gen. 3:15</a> where God’s seed will be bruised on the heel crushing the head, killing, of Satan.  That type and shadow of Christ is throughout the OT so that we can see Christ again for example in Joshua.  After Joshua (type and shadow of Christ) and Israel (type and shadow of Christ) take over all the land and kill all the kings of the promised land he has Israel (type and shadow of Christ) put their foot on the necks of the dead kings, who where just “hung on a tree” and “cursed of God” (he who hangs on a tree…).  But the paradox of the Cross is this, while that shows the head of the serpent (kings of this fallen world and as such under Satan and their various kingdoms) being crushed, Israel’s (type and shadow of Christ) foot on their necks having been just accursed of God by defeat and hanging on the tree – It will be Jesus, the King of the kingdom of God coming and dawning, that will ‘hang on the tree’ (the Cross) taking the curse of God for His people.  By this great paradox He will “crush the head of the serpent” and gain victory, but it looks like losing.  The physical promise land is of course a type and shadow of the real kingdom of God, heaven, the city of God now dawning in part and will consummate at the second advent.  The whole book of Joshua is pregnant with type and shadow of Christ or Christ in all of Scripture to put it another way.  The Israelites actually killing ALL the kings of Canaan (fallen man’s city, Satan’s rule, fallen religion, etc…) in the promise land (earthly) are felled by Israel (type and shadow of Christ) and Joshua (type and shadow of Christ) and do inherent the land (type and shadow of the kingdom coming and to come even today inaugurated at Calvary):  THIS portrays the resurrection, yet to come, even for us at the second coming of Jesus our king.</p>
<p>I’m mean the WHOLE bible is about Christ, every part of it.  It is so rich in Christ for us the more I read it the more faith is built.  I use to read it and never find comfort, but now!</p>
<p>When the proverbs speak they are speaking mainly that Christ alone has done them, the embodiment of them for us.  The Psalms literally cry out Jesus in so many ways there’s hardly time to type it here.</p>
<p>I’d start with Luther’s Heidelberg Disputation, particularly Forde’s short but packed treatment of it.  It really diagnoses the issue of the two religions in the world so that one really will see what sin really is and what grace really is.  Then I’d move on to some other books.  One really has to begin to grasp the problem we ALL have in reading the bible as an instruction or prescription book rather than Christ in all of Scripture.  Because Jesus says it’s all about Him.</p>
<p>I could wax on this all day long its so exciting!  But this is Michael’s blog and I have a tendency to go long, too long most times!</p>
<p>Blessings,</p>
<p>Larry KY</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: caplight</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news/comment-page-1#comment-129783</link>
		<dc:creator>caplight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/why-isnt-the-gospel-front-page-news#comment-129783</guid>
		<description>Is the problem at least in part because we&#039;re not sure why the Gospel is &quot;good news&quot; in the first place? Willard talks about that all through his book, The Divine Conspiracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the problem at least in part because we&#8217;re not sure why the Gospel is &#8220;good news&#8221; in the first place? Willard talks about that all through his book, The Divine Conspiracy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
