Comments on: What’s Wrong With The Sermon?: It’s Too Long

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:31:31 +0000

Michael, Marjorie has my sympathy, it alomost sounds like we have the same preacher in some areas. Our pastor is great evangelist, has a background in evangelism and preaches in that vein to our congregation. He has never reckoned it out that an evangelist preaches differently from a pastor. His sermons lasts from 45 min to 1 1/2 hrs. He can be brilliat, and there is none better. Sometimes he looses us after about 30 min, and that makes him anxious and he preaches even longer. You can tell he is in a panic trying to recover our attention and never gets it back. He has preached some great sermons that we have hung on every word, and some that we could not tell you what they were about because we were so miserable we just wanted it to end. He won’t listen to council about it. I know he studies hard for his sermon, but sometimes gives so much info and background he looses us. Often he is 15 to 20 minutes laying the foundation. He tells the same personal stories over and over, and is repetitive if he wants to make a point. After I have heard it 3 times I get it. At altar call he has us stand then preaches for 15 min more, and calls us down to the altar and preaches again. We have ederly and crippled in our congregation and he never realizes lengthy standing impacts them. Our morning service, including music, lasts 2 hours or more, and most visitors do not come back. We have people saved, but only 1 out of 10 stay. They say they are not interested in spending 45 min in Sunday school, 15 min break, and 2 hrs or more in church. 10am SS and 11am church, which is over about 1:15pm. 3 or more hrs makes a long Sunday. I teach twice weekly and our family takes care of the church grounds.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:37:44 +0000

Glad to be able to listen, but as its a local pastor issue and I have no knowledge, all I can do is suggest you talk to the elders of your church about any issues you have.

peace, MS

By: Marjorie Arnold

Marjorie Arnold — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:16:57 +0000

Good Afternoon Michael Spencer,
I just found your web site and have spent far too much
time on it reading the responses to your article on
long sermons.
My problem with my pastor is not the length of his sermons but all the “fill” he uses to make them 45-60 minutes each service. He is to willing to share his family and personal life in almost every sermon and it
has embarrassed his family many times.
He also waits for us to respond to his antidotes and will even hold the mic toward the congregation to respond if we don’t give him feedback quickly. He tells
the same stories, I mean same stories and jokes, so
many times that I can almost tell them myself. I almost
always know which one he is going to tell.
He has good subjects in his sermons, but he will leave
the thrust of his message by running down rabbit trails and forgets to come back.
Another thing he does is when he starts to wind down he
starts saying “in closing” or “I’m going to close after
this next point” or “I’m going to close because I am not
a long-winded preacher, or ‘I have just one more thing
then I’m going to close.” That kind of stuff drives me to distraction. This goes on for about 15 minutes longer, then he calls the whole (100%) assembly to the
front of the church and preaches another mini sermon as
we stand before him waiting for him to get to closing the services. By this time it is well into 15-25 minutes
AFTER he asks us to stand for the closing remarks. NOW,
I have vented to you because he wont listen to me because I have attempted on two occasions to convey some
of my opinions to him but nothing has materialized as yet. However, I will say, I have filled in three questionares from him offering my talents and service to
the church and have yet to receive any reply to them,
this was 5-7 years ago. So, Michael what can you say to
this little dilemma?
Serving Him in better days,
Marjorie

By: tn_retired

tn_retired — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 01:04:04 +0000

I did a search on long sermons to see what the average sermon length was and that is how I found your website.

Two years ago my wife and I retired to TN and we soon found a small pentecostal church to attend because we were both raised in pentecostal churches. At the church where we started attending the pastor’s sermons seemed to average around 35 to 40 minutes and we both felt we could live with that because we enjoyed the other people we had met there.
As someone else here stated some preachers can preach for one hour and it only seems about 20-25 minutes have gone by, while some preachers preach 25 minutes and it seems that they have gone one hour or over. This particular pastor has been in the ministry for 25 years so he should know by now how to keep his sermons short and to the point, by short I mean 30-35 minutes.

After attending this church for about one year, the pastors sermons seemed to be getting longer and longer so I started timing them over a one month period. We attend three services per week so one month gives a good average. The pastors sermons averaged out to about 50 minutes per sermon
and sometimes went to one hour and on a few occasions broke the one hour 15 minute mark with the longest one being one hour 18 minutes.

That was when I decided to try to write a letter to the pastor telling him what I have observed in the last few months. I told him that I felt his long sermons are hurting our church’s growth because when we get visitors they never return more than twice and I told him that I felt this was due to his long sermons. I even told him that after he preaches for 35 minutes my mind starts to wander and I don’t hear anything else he has to say, so I can understand the visitors not coming back for more. I also told him that when he gets past 35 minutes that I start re-reading the church bulletin over and over or start reading the song book or my bible and eventually I start nodding off to sleep, so the remainder of his sermon is lost on me. I told him that if he continued to preach such long sermons, that my wife and I would be forced to look for another place to worship. I tried to put this all in a non-confrontational wasy. He is aware that he has been getting longer and longer and I have heard him say from the pulpit that he does not know when to stop or close the sermon. I suggested to him in the letter that when he reaches 30 to 35 minutes he needs to close within five minutes.

That letter was written by me and delivered to him six weeks ago. He never did respond back to me in person, by phone, letter or by email, but I did notice that during the following five weeks he started keeping his sermon length around 35 minutes and I even complimented him on that and told him I was enjoying and getting more out of his sermons.

My wife and I attend Sunday morning worship, Sunday evening services and a mid-week service on Wednesday, so that equals out to three sermons per week. For the last two weeks he has slowly started creeping back up toward the 50 minute mark. I have not said anything to him about it, but tonight when he reached 48 minutes, I got up and walked out of the service and drove home. I am sure that he saw me get up and leave because it is such a small church. When I got home I told my wife how long he preached tonight and she said she is fed up with it and would like to look for another church. My wife has been staying home for all services with the exception of Sunday mornings, because she does not like the lengthy sermons that he is slipping back into.

My wife and I both now feel that this situation is not going to improve and we feel that our only solution is to start looking for another church to attend. Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.

Retired in Tennessee

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:07:14 +0000

I am assuming that the SOM as we have it is boiled down and compacted from Jesus’ actual words. I don’t believe it is a transcript.

I have several presentations on Mark by actors and all finish in less than 2 hours.

By: Jeff the Baptist

Jeff the Baptist — Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:00:48 +0000

“It is hard to imagine that, if the Sermon on the Mount really was a sermon, Jesus could have done it in less than an hour.”

I’m not a preacher, but I’ve done the Sermon on the Mount as an exercise with my small group. It takes around 30 minutes depending on how fast you go. Maybe less, probably a little more. But you can certainly do it in under an hour. My senior pastor performed a dramatic recitation of the entire book of Mark once. It took less than two hours. But Mark is the shortest Gospel.

The bible is surprisingly compact actually. I have an audio bible. Start to finish, you’re looking at 60-70 hours of oration.

By: Ex_Umbris

Ex_Umbris — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:26:50 +0000

A unique challenge to preaching skills is the homily at daily mass. My parish serves the downtown community, where daily mass is usually fifty to a hundred people sacrificing their lunch break to come worship, and they have a maximum of 45 minutes available. So the homily has to be very short, sometimes only about five minutes, and as bluntly direct as possible; no time for anecdotes, jokes, lengthy introductions, multiple points. The homilist must ask himself, what was the message of the gospel and epistle just read? What single point can the worshippers take with them back to the job? What has meaning for the businessman, the homeless guy, and the housewife with their brief, stolen minutes given to God in the middle of their day?

By: remez

remez — Fri, 20 Jan 2006 04:03:42 +0000

Patrick & mattbanker, and iMonk,

At 51, and in the church literaly since birth (a PK) I shudder to think of how many sermons I’ve heard. I’ve given a few also. I have come to believe there is a time & place for lengthy exegesis … I personally don’t think it is Sunday morning. Mattbanker raises an excellent point – one I gave no thought to as a 23 year old – when he asks if we make more of the sermon than it was meant to be. In general, I think we have done just that (I am protestant too, but riding the edge of E. Orthodoxy & RCC these days). Jesus, quoting the OT, said, “My house shall be a house of PRAYER.” Not sermons, or drama, or CCM, etc. I think that modern Protestants have generally lost the concept of corporate worship and too often have become a bunch of personal worshippers who happen to be in the same building. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but the liturgy I have experienced in the EO & RCC churches I have visited in the past year contain more participitory worship than any contemporary service of which I’ve ever been a part. Don’t get me wrong … I still love much of the CCM worship music of the last 2 decades (unlike iMonk, I have NOT quit playing my guitar!) and I use it often in my personal worship times. However, I am beginning to think that churches that have abandoned the liturgy of old have embraced a model that is resulting in an individualistic form of worship. LOL – just when I get to the place in my life where I think all should be settled and in place, I find myself struggling with all these issues & searching for truth again! Indeed, following Jesus is always an adventure!

Tim

By: Patrick

Patrick — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 23:04:22 +0000

Mattbanker has a real point about the purpose of services. Some of us truly do grow in our faith through preaching, but I am with him in questioning whether that is the real point of worship.

I am a recent convert to the Roman Catholic Church, coming from a Southern Baptist background. Now, the sermons are very short, compared to where I came from. Still, from both backgrounds, there are things that appeal to me in preaching and length is not one of them. I have grown most with short sermons that tied together the scripture readings for the day with practical apologetics. What is the doctrinal point being made, how does the Old Testament passage provide a foundation, and what is the practical application in our daily life?

One of the best recent ones, I was visiting a church other than my home parish. The priest brought the entire point of the readings to “walking the walk” and how important that was. He said that he had recently been hanging out with the youth group, doing things with them and was impressed by how focused they are on doing exactly that. They have a good time with each-other, but also focus on their Catholic heritage with praying the Rosary togehter, participating in Eucharistic adoration, and learning the creeds and prayers that have been the touchstones of our faith for centuries. I think this sermon affected me more than most I have heard.

Lest this look too much like a Catholic Rah-rah post, my other all-time favorite is from the first Baptist pastor I was under. He preached about half an hour on the passage about the master giving his three servants ten, five, and one talents. What I took home from that sermon was one sentence. It went something like this: “When I reach heaven, I sincerely hope that I have made enough of what I was given here on earth to be told ‘well done, thou good and faithful servant.’” The whole sermon could have been as short as a Catholic homily (or shorter) and still get through exactly that message in beautiful clarity.

The real importance of a pastor is in his ability to lead and shepherd the congregation entrusted to him, not just his preaching. But, when a church interviews a new pastor, they will often try out his ability to preach without having any particular way of determining how well he does the rest of his job. Is he actually any good at going and visiting the dying woman in the hospital? Can he relate to the unwed teenage father enough to give real advice? How well can he explain doctrine to a troubled and questioning member of the church who is trying to reconcile his faith and the Bible with real life? If someone comes to him and claims to have been victimized by another member of the congregation, how does he handle it? If a marriage is breaking apart, does he have any idea how to counsel the husband and wife? All of these are part of the life of a pastor and are probably more important in the real world than how well he puts together a sermon. However, the methodology I have seen in one church (SoBap) for choosing a new pastor was to read applications, interview on the phone, then fly a few of the applicants up to the church so they could give sermons and answer a few questions from the congregation at a potluck, then base the decision on that.

At least that’s how this pew-warmer sees things.

-Patrick

By: mattbanker

mattbanker — Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:13:16 +0000

I’m 23 and I’ve been going to church my whole life. I figure that I’ve heard at least a thousand sermons in my life, including church, camps, chapel, etc. I remember maybe five or six and most of those I actually remember a funny story from the sermon, not really the point of it.
This may just be my own personality, but I’m pretty skeptical that a sermon is 1)the most effective way to teach the Bible and 2) that it should be the focal point of a church service. Pastors for a long time have been expected to preach and therefore a good pastor has been defined by his ability to preach. So the sermon became the main part of the service, since the pastor was the main part of the church (or at least the part the congregation paid for). It isn’t really the model we’re given in the first century, so why do we do it this way. I’d rather read a book or be a part of a Bible study. I personally really don’t like going to services because usually the sermon is labored through and no real point is made, or several points are made but they tend to be forced, out of context and simplistic. I don’t think the sermon model is ever long enough to be thorough and clear. A lot of times I find myself critical of how well the sermon was preached and if it lived up to my preconceived guidelines and the actual message gets lost.
So IM I love reading your blogs, I come here often. Since you are writing a series about sermons, I’d love it if you could address why sermons are important at all? Maybe its just because we’ve always known it that way. Maybe its because church buildings are so conveniently designed to be perfect for a preacher/congregation model. Maybe its because we like to hear ourselves talk and be up in front of people. I don’t know.