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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s Growing In The Shadow of Anger?</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: perfessir</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-414105</link>
		<dc:creator>perfessir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-414105</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s probably too late to comment, and my comments are universally ignored anyway, but maybe I can add something of value. This is my experience.

I too was an extremely angry young man and an angry middle aged man. Working as a &quot;full time Christian ministry&quot; person my entire &quot;christian&quot; career (36 years).

Now I feel angry maybe once every 1-2 months. What happened?

Lots of things; I&#039;m not sure which did away with anger (and fear by the way -- I don&#039;t remember the last time I was afraid).

Nearly complete rejection by a community of &quot;good&quot; Christians (ages 40-67, including my wife and 3 of my 5 children). Acceptance into several groups of younger people and non-christians.

Being crucified with Christ(Gal. 2:20).

Moving to Vietnam at age 67 with no &quot;support group&quot; to ease the cultural transition.

10 years in AA.

Not attending church for a long time. (Tried &#039;em all, including 20 years as a RC.)

Studying the Tao te Ching until I got it.

Or maybe something else.

But this I know for certain: everything is exactly the way it is supposed to be, and I accept that. (Cf. the serenity prayer -- I learned that in AA which was my &quot;church&quot; for 5 years.) I may not like it or agree with it. But that&#039;s the way it is.

The way that the world is is not my area of concern, but the way I am and my faithfulness to my Father is.

I hope that this will help an angry person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s probably too late to comment, and my comments are universally ignored anyway, but maybe I can add something of value. This is my experience.</p>
<p>I too was an extremely angry young man and an angry middle aged man. Working as a &#8220;full time Christian ministry&#8221; person my entire &#8220;christian&#8221; career (36 years).</p>
<p>Now I feel angry maybe once every 1-2 months. What happened?</p>
<p>Lots of things; I&#8217;m not sure which did away with anger (and fear by the way &#8212; I don&#8217;t remember the last time I was afraid).</p>
<p>Nearly complete rejection by a community of &#8220;good&#8221; Christians (ages 40-67, including my wife and 3 of my 5 children). Acceptance into several groups of younger people and non-christians.</p>
<p>Being crucified with Christ(Gal. 2:20).</p>
<p>Moving to Vietnam at age 67 with no &#8220;support group&#8221; to ease the cultural transition.</p>
<p>10 years in AA.</p>
<p>Not attending church for a long time. (Tried &#8216;em all, including 20 years as a RC.)</p>
<p>Studying the Tao te Ching until I got it.</p>
<p>Or maybe something else.</p>
<p>But this I know for certain: everything is exactly the way it is supposed to be, and I accept that. (Cf. the serenity prayer &#8212; I learned that in AA which was my &#8220;church&#8221; for 5 years.) I may not like it or agree with it. But that&#8217;s the way it is.</p>
<p>The way that the world is is not my area of concern, but the way I am and my faithfulness to my Father is.</p>
<p>I hope that this will help an angry person.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-412863</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-412863</guid>
		<description>(skipping most of the comments)

It&#039;s funny, even Carl Jung in the early 20th century discovered that this truth in the Bible of hypocritically calling others out was absolutely true.  For those that don&#039;t know, he was a psychologist who propagated the idea of projection, among other things.

That is, when somebody&#039;s actions affect us so badly that we lose control of ourselves, it is evidence that what is really bothering us is something inside of us and not the other person.  For, if the thing did not exist within us, would we not have self-control in that situation?

Oswald Chambers reminded us of the danger of not believing the Bible on this point.

We then get angry at hypocrites, saying that they are too hasty to judge others for the very same things that they do.  But then we come back to this principle again (hopefully) and realize that, again, we are being the hypocrites hastily judging others for our own faults.

This takes us back to the face of the Almighty God, our Loved One, who alone can remove our guilt and shame.

And he doesn&#039;t ask for us to make ourselves perfect.  All that he requires is that we do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.

I don&#039;t think we realize that all our energy in trying to drive others to perfection is wasted energy that could be used upon our own walk.

May we all be humble and lovingly understanding towards others.

Amen, Lord.  Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(skipping most of the comments)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny, even Carl Jung in the early 20th century discovered that this truth in the Bible of hypocritically calling others out was absolutely true.  For those that don&#8217;t know, he was a psychologist who propagated the idea of projection, among other things.</p>
<p>That is, when somebody&#8217;s actions affect us so badly that we lose control of ourselves, it is evidence that what is really bothering us is something inside of us and not the other person.  For, if the thing did not exist within us, would we not have self-control in that situation?</p>
<p>Oswald Chambers reminded us of the danger of not believing the Bible on this point.</p>
<p>We then get angry at hypocrites, saying that they are too hasty to judge others for the very same things that they do.  But then we come back to this principle again (hopefully) and realize that, again, we are being the hypocrites hastily judging others for our own faults.</p>
<p>This takes us back to the face of the Almighty God, our Loved One, who alone can remove our guilt and shame.</p>
<p>And he doesn&#8217;t ask for us to make ourselves perfect.  All that he requires is that we do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we realize that all our energy in trying to drive others to perfection is wasted energy that could be used upon our own walk.</p>
<p>May we all be humble and lovingly understanding towards others.</p>
<p>Amen, Lord.  Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411828</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411828</guid>
		<description>As I read that, my first (and major) thought was: how could you allow that man to remain on the staff of that church?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read that, my first (and major) thought was: how could you allow that man to remain on the staff of that church?</p>
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		<title>By: Theophilus</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411693</link>
		<dc:creator>Theophilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411693</guid>
		<description>It should have read &quot;We need to not be angry at our brothers and sisters or rail against life&#039;s unfairness.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should have read &#8220;We need to not be angry at our brothers and sisters or rail against life&#8217;s unfairness.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Theophilus</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411691</link>
		<dc:creator>Theophilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411691</guid>
		<description>Dylan Thomas wrote a poem to his dying father in which he implored him to &quot;rage, rage against the dying of the light.&quot;  Some Christians have begun a slow slide and I would rather them rage against what ails them rather than &quot;go gently into the night.&quot;  I want to &quot;rage&quot; against living a life that is less than what I have been made to be.  I hope others also &quot;rage.&quot;

Imonk--thank you for your patience and responses.  I have simply tried to present the other side of the anger coin.  If we need to not be angry at our brothers and sisters or rail against life&#039;s unfairness.  However, if we are to truly represent God, then there are some things for which anger is a godly response. 

To everyone else who provided sincere advice, I thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dylan Thomas wrote a poem to his dying father in which he implored him to &#8220;rage, rage against the dying of the light.&#8221;  Some Christians have begun a slow slide and I would rather them rage against what ails them rather than &#8220;go gently into the night.&#8221;  I want to &#8220;rage&#8221; against living a life that is less than what I have been made to be.  I hope others also &#8220;rage.&#8221;</p>
<p>Imonk&#8211;thank you for your patience and responses.  I have simply tried to present the other side of the anger coin.  If we need to not be angry at our brothers and sisters or rail against life&#8217;s unfairness.  However, if we are to truly represent God, then there are some things for which anger is a godly response. </p>
<p>To everyone else who provided sincere advice, I thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: JustJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411608</link>
		<dc:creator>JustJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411608</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a huge difference between being angry, and having passion.

James 5:20 - &quot;For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.&quot;

My anger leads me resentment and bitterness.  In contrast, my passion leads me to joy and excitement in the Spirit, and gives me resolve to do the work of the Father.

Anger is a secondary emotion that comes as a result of another emotion.  Find the root, and deal with THAT.


Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a huge difference between being angry, and having passion.</p>
<p>James 5:20 &#8211; &#8220;For the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>My anger leads me resentment and bitterness.  In contrast, my passion leads me to joy and excitement in the Spirit, and gives me resolve to do the work of the Father.</p>
<p>Anger is a secondary emotion that comes as a result of another emotion.  Find the root, and deal with THAT.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>By: Tim W</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411525</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411525</guid>
		<description>&quot;Shouldnâ€™t your interpretation of Scripture first give you joy, on account of whatâ€™s in it, that overwhelms this anger? Do other Christians see you as a joyful and cheerful person? My interpretation of Scripture does not lead me to believe the early Christians were dominated by an angry temperament on account of all the hypocrites around them, but by the joy of having the Spirit of God in their heart. Christians get angry, but their not to be angry.&quot;


Excellent!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Shouldnâ€™t your interpretation of Scripture first give you joy, on account of whatâ€™s in it, that overwhelms this anger? Do other Christians see you as a joyful and cheerful person? My interpretation of Scripture does not lead me to believe the early Christians were dominated by an angry temperament on account of all the hypocrites around them, but by the joy of having the Spirit of God in their heart. Christians get angry, but their not to be angry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Excellent!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim W</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411523</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411523</guid>
		<description>â€œDo you not believe that too many Christians are simply being herded by culture and doing whatever seems right?â€

I guess its God&#039;s job to sort it out. Worrying about what others do and how they live isnt productive. 

besides, we&#039;d all like to think we are cleansed of &#039;the system&#039;, or above it, but even a cloistered monk is still part of a system and a culture; this planet is as closed a system as a hamster cage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œDo you not believe that too many Christians are simply being herded by culture and doing whatever seems right?â€</p>
<p>I guess its God&#8217;s job to sort it out. Worrying about what others do and how they live isnt productive. </p>
<p>besides, we&#8217;d all like to think we are cleansed of &#8216;the system&#8217;, or above it, but even a cloistered monk is still part of a system and a culture; this planet is as closed a system as a hamster cage.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411270</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411270</guid>
		<description>at least some, I meant to write, in the second sentence</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>at least some, I meant to write, in the second sentence</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Lake</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whats-growing-in-the-shadow-of-anger/comment-page-2#comment-411269</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Lake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2980#comment-411269</guid>
		<description>I think that Theophilus has some valid points.  I&#039;m not sure that for least *some* of the things that he has mentioned, anger is not an appropriate emotion.  

However, *where* do we direct our anger?  Is it primarily at other other people, or is it at Satan and at our *own* spiritual complacency, which exists in us, just as it does in others?  

I&#039;m not saying that anger should ever be a primary, dominating emotion in the lives of Christians.  I do think it can sometimes be appropriate.  We have to willing to look at ourselves though and especially, willing to ask the Spirit to search our hearts *about* our anger and show us what is truly there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Theophilus has some valid points.  I&#8217;m not sure that for least *some* of the things that he has mentioned, anger is not an appropriate emotion.  </p>
<p>However, *where* do we direct our anger?  Is it primarily at other other people, or is it at Satan and at our *own* spiritual complacency, which exists in us, just as it does in others?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that anger should ever be a primary, dominating emotion in the lives of Christians.  I do think it can sometimes be appropriate.  We have to willing to look at ourselves though and especially, willing to ask the Spirit to search our hearts *about* our anger and show us what is truly there.</p>
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