ii. I live in England and if I had a quid for every time I’ve heard someone refer to it as a Christian nation, I may not be a rich man but I’d certainly not be a poor one ! As with the US of A, I don’t see how a country can be a Christian nation. It makes no sense biblically and one only has to study Europe in the middle ages and the initial beginnings of America as the settlers arrived to see what disasters occur (and the legacies left behind) when one “tries to build the new Jerusalem and ends up with New York…”

iv. The problem with some of the words we use like ‘inerrancy’, ‘infallibility’ and ‘inspiration’ is that they don’t have simple one liner explanations – but they are quoted as though they do. Many of our words have delicately nuanced explanations. Who wants to hear them ?

v. For me here, the problem isn’t so much whether or not brothers and sisters meet on Wednesdays or whenever, as much as the imposition on and expectation of people to meet on those nights simply because it’s been set up to be done that way. If a congregation together decide to meet together on a given evening, more power to them.

vi. Though I’ve only seen snippets {and what I’ve seen seems OK}, the more translations of the bible that come out, the more I’m convinced that it is the Holy Spirit {God himself} living in us that is actually God’s chief method of communication with the human race. No doubt contentious, but think on this for a moment. If someone illiterate came to faith in Christ, could God not really have a relationship with that person ?

vii. No one can be an every detail expert on the bible. One can’t even do it with the Beatles ! I wouldn’t mind betting that “thinking biblically” would bring about more disagreement than just about anything one cares to name, if the last 1950 years have been anything to go by. Ironic, really.

viii. The whole verse by verse concept makes virtually no sense to me, particularly when one comes to letters and narratives that were written as whole pieces and understood that way. That doesn’t mean that bits and pieces can’t be considered separately at times, but it inevitably leads to where we’re at now, a kind of cut and paste, pick and choose approach that becomes the norm but which is ultimately full of holes.

ix. Funny thing about Leviticus; it’s a struggle to get through {and to be frank, it’s pretty boring for great swathes of it}, but I encourage one to do just that, and more than once because it really helps make sense of Jesus and other NT matters.

xi. As a man that is black, I raised an eyebrow initially at this point. But on thinking and reflecting, I’d have to agree. Pretty bold point, though.

xii. For me, institutional Christianity is like a beer that is well past it’s sell by date; it can quench thirst, in that it’s a liquid and you can drink it all your life but it’s a pale shadow of the real thing and it tastes like soap….

xiii. I still don’t understand this point. When you talk about child baptism, do you mean baptism of children that have actually made a real commitment to Christ ? Or what we in the UK call “christening” ?

xiv. I think that if we honestly practiced listening to the Lord and believers were actually equipped rather than preached to or ‘motivated’, then seminaries could not exist. That we have relied not upon spirit filled people of proven character {the emphasis being on ‘Spirit’}, but ‘educated’ and articulate ones so often, has done incalculable damage to the body of Christ actually being a healthy body. I guess loads of people might find that offensive but as you point out, Christ’s way is cross cultural, for every strata of society and it’s the Lord who manoeuvres his people into the situations they find themselves serving in, not man and the things we are swayed by.

xv. Listening does no harm but often we won’t because we feel that the one that has left will be shown to be right {and perhaps we feel a little defensive}. But actually, that may not be the case. And either way, listening is a priceless way of discovery, one way or the other. You’ll never know if someone was right or wrong unless you grapple with the reasons they give for a) doing what they did or b) seeing you in a particular light.

16+17. Both of these are part of a larger problem. I mean, technology can play a minor part sometimes. But is it really necessary in equipping someone for works of service ? I think that we, as human beings, sometimes have extremist tendencies and we like toys and bright flashes and so often we’ll uncritically take on board whatever is put our way, especially if it makes us feel good or is skilfully presented. Like a Trojan horse. I’ll often be pointed to as a rebel {without a clue !! } but I don’t feel that I need “someone” to tell me what to do and how to be. I may have done as a baby believer; I certainly don’t now. Let’s have a little discernment instead ! Oh, and the real presence of the Lord….

xvii. Does it really matter when God created the earth ? None of us were there to witness it ! I hope he made a DVD of it though…..Seriously, whether the earth is 6000 or 100,000,000 years old isn’t going to enable us to hear him better or put food in the mouth of someone on the edge of starvation or act on what he tells us.

xix. I think many of us believe that last sentence……until that belief has practical implications. It’s sort of connected with 16 & 17.

xx. You know, I’ve long wondered about this one. While I think everyone is entitled to their own positions of conscience, I have a hard time reconciling pro-life with pro death penalty. The way my mind works, one either believes that life is sacred or you don’t. And the real test of the sanctity of life is when you come across those that, well, don’t deserve it. I hope I’m never put to the test !

xxi. Me neither. In saying that though, maybe sometimes some moralists and censors have actually had worthy reasons for taking some of the paths that they have. I wouldn’t lump them all in the same camp.

xxii. It’s worth exploring the Sabbath as a subject, even though I wholeheartedly agree with your point. It’s a fascinating history and even more so is seeing how even with the Holy Spirit we can take something so pure and helpful to us and somehow construct this lumbering ironclad monstrosity around our necks…….and then justify it or write it off as if nothing had happened !

xxiii. Ditto. Someone will always make a big deal out of this and let’s face it – it’s a biggie ! As someone pointed out earlier, the actual beneficiary of the tithe in Israel was the giver of the tithe and every third year, it went towards Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners and it was real food/grain not money……No one has the freedom to impose upon other believers what becomes of their income, whether one believes in stewardship or not. Peter makes that clear when talking to Annanias. There is nothing in the NT to justify tithing. The three or four times it’s mentioned, it’s either in an ‘under the law’ situation or a hark back to pre-law times. To turn that into a binding command is to engage in the kind of gymnastics that wins Olympic gold medals. And it is a totally separate issue from generosity and greed.

xxiv. There has been so much clamouring for revival in the last 20 years but I don’t think that’s particularly honouring to God. Have we seriously not learned, both from the entire OT adventures of Israel and church history of the last 2000 or so years that God has inexhaustible resources and is packed to the gills with life and what is new ? By all means let’s appreciate and learn from what has come before. But I believe that when God is doing something new and vibrant, it doesn’t look like what has already been. Principles may remain coz God is consistent but we need to be so plugged into his life that we can recognize what he’s doing. For all some of us know, 10 major moves of God could be happening right now. Question is, would we recognize it if it ain’t on the TV or papers ?

xxv. The writer of Hebrews settled this one for me when he/she writes about faith and how it’s by faith that we understand that God created the world out of nothing. “Call me ignorant do” if you please, but that’s good enough for me. Sulphur crusted underwater cities that could be Sodom and salty pillars that could be Lot’s wife may well ‘prove’ something and make compelling TV or reading. But I don’t care much for archaeological discoveries because they exist independently of our relationship with and faith in God. They can’t make me believe more or less.

If all that seems like a lot, that’s the abridged version !! Besides, iMonk has sparked off some serious thinking with some seriously juicy thoughts there.

I like most of your points. And the following conversation.

I think that a running theme here is found throughout church history…we have a tendency to toss things that have been abused, rather than taking them and really looking at what makes them valuable and useful in terms of the overall christian lifestyle/discipleship deal.

A. Tithing – A lot of us get really convicted over the lifestyle described in acts, but life as if it were impossible. But by the same token, most Americans do not live within their means…anybody living with 0% debt is actually in the top 5% of the US monetarily at this time. The whole idea behind modern tithing is, truly, making a start on opening up your resources to God for his use, since you’re just a steward anyway.

Besides, if you attend a church (which requires money for lights, and water, and other useful things, and which has people coming and asking for charity, which cannot happen if nobody will give money for it) but are not willing to share resources to support it…then you’re just a parasite, aren’t you?

In fact, just as most people have trouble giving 10% of their money to…eh, church? Charity? relationaltithe.org? they have just as much trouble with their time. Which leads us to

B. Sabbath. We all pack so much crap into our lives. So many things that we HAVE to do.

But we don’t, really. We don’t need that many things…but we’ve convinced ourselves we do.

But what we really need to be is the best ourselves that we can, in service of our Saviour.

So we can live our lives distracted…or we can start building in time to rest. To relax. To focus. To meditate.

Specifically setting aside sunday night and Wednesday night just to be family is a start. Sabbath is, really, an attitude, as much as anything else. Will you make time for God, more than just your 15 minute bible study every morning?

Prayer, really, is showing up. It’s putting one foot in front of the other. It’s being in a place where God can actually get ahold of you, and have you pay attention for once. Again and again.

Between the two of these, time and money, the truth for all Christians is this: Give as you can, not as you can’t. You are who you are. Acknowledge this, and live in the reality of who you are, and who you can become…not who the superchristian at your church should be, or what you think is expected of you. If it doesn’t come from your heart, it’s all moot anyway.

But a lot of us need practice.

HOWEVER, I did get giddy regarding two of your points. First, the Secular America was great. I think a lot of people just don’t think through that one…although the founders were Christian, the framework is not.

Also, the OT tithing…I’ve been saying that for SUCH a long time. We are not bound by legalism, and tithing is fairly legalistic. I do believe that Christians should be more gracious (in contrast to the customers at Chili’s), and should even strive to give more than 10%, but to say that it is necessary to give exactly ten percent is not applicable and is cheap.

I will DEFINITELY be keeping up on this blog.

Let me tackle just one that I disagreed with. There were others….

Gay marriage/homosexuality:

While I agree that on the surface it APPEARS that homesexuality is less destructive (assuming, in order to clarify my point, that the level of destructiveness of one sin vs. another could be accurately measured by my own sinful minds’ approximation), I believe that homosexuality is a symptom of the level of decay/breakdown/decline of the traditional family unit in society.

In other words, when homosexuality starts showing up, and then increasing, and then becoming accepted, and then celebrated, you can be assured that divorce (and the other items you named) have been on the scene and worsening for a while.

Just reread Genesis 19 and Romans 1:18-32. Homosexuality and its embrace by the masses is a litmus test of the sin and wickedness in a society.

While homosexuality may appear less destructive, it is simply an indicator of the times, and should not be heralded as the lesser of two evils.

Not really. My father worked a rotating swing shift for about 1/2 of his life. At one point he said he’d prayed that if God would give him off the Sundays when on the midnight shift he’d work extra hard to make the regular Sundays.