Hearing or reading about such things always makes me think of how much I’d rather see an Alice Cooper concert.

Keep up the excellent work, Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alleRy70rAM

You can be scared into salvation at anytime during the year.

You will not find Luther anywhere arguing that faith does not manifest itself in works. Luther believed whole heartedly that faith does produce works. But this is not how James states the case, (though it can be argued that is what he meant. And Luther would agree that you could interpret James to say that.) James says “James 2:24 (ESV) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
Now I tend to think that the translators are a bit dishonest here, because the word Pistis they translate as faith here, they translate as knowledge when it comes to the demons. So I think James was trying to distinguish between mere knowledge, and the living faith that Paul speaks about, but he did a very poor job, and I don’t mind saying that because I’m with Luther on this, I not sure that it was written by an apostle, and Paul is much clearer than James.

Luther quote I like on the subject. Sorry to all who think this is off topic.

On the topic, though, I have to say I was subjected to “Thief in the Night” in my youth, as well, found it disturbing and wrong. Christ will return, or as somebody pointed out “appear” (since he is not really missing), and it will be the last day.

Here for DaveD

From the commentary to letter to the Galatians (Luther’s works, volume 26, commentary on Galatians, p. 137):

” ‘ But the Law is good, righteous, and holy.’ Very well! But when we are involved in a discussion of justification, there is no room for speaking about the Law. The question is what Christ is and what blessing He has brought us. Christ is not the law; He is not my work or that of the Law; he is not my love or that of the law; He is not my chastity, obedience, or poverty. But He is the Lord of life and death, the Mediator and Savior of sinners, the Redeemer of those who are under the Law. By faith we are in Him and He is in us (John 6:56). This Bridegroom, Christ, must be alone with his bride in His private chamber, and all the family and household must be shunted away. But later on, when the Bridegroom opens the door and comes out, then let the servants return to take care of them and serve them food and drink. Then let works and love begin.

… Victory over sin and death does not come by the works of the Law or by our will; therefore it comes by Jesus Christ, alone. Here we are perfectly willing to have ourselves called ’sola fideists’ by our opponents, who do not understand anything of Paul’s argument. You who are to be the consolers of consciences that are afflicted, should teach this doctrine diligently, study it continually, and defend it vigorously…”

P. 145
But we do make a distinction here; and we say that we are not disputing now whether good works ought to be done. Nor are we inquiring whether the law is good, holy, and righteous, or whether it ought to be observed; FOR THAT IS ANOTHER TOPIC (my emphasis). But our argument and questions concerns justification and whether the law justifies. Our opponents do not listen to this. They do not answer this question, nor do they distinguish as we do. All they do is to scream that good works ought to be done and that the law ought to be observed. ALL RIGHT, WE KNOW THAT. (my emphasis). But because these are distinct topics, we will not permit them to be confused. In due time we shall discuss the teaching that the law and good works ought to be done.”

And from personal experience…I prayed to receive Christ as a teenager after a sermon on the second coming (first time I heard anything about that) and a guy blew a trumpet from the balcony at the end of the sermon. Scared the hell out of me. I was converted several years later when I trusted in Christ.

I’ll bet you my house for yours that you die before Jesus comes back. Do it…

Headless Unicorn Guy,

The comments are right about one thing: The Holy Spirit is freaking adorable!

Maybe. However, that’s not what he’s saying in his critique of James. He’s saying it can’t really be James because the idea of works reflecting salvation can’t be found anywhere else in the NT. He’s wrong. James simply says that we are saved by faith but that faith DOES things. If you say you have faith but don’t do things you don’t really have faith.

It’s a similar concept to “If a man hates his brother whom he can see, how can he love God whom he can’t?” If you don’t have faith enough in Jesus to do the things he told us to do(the things we can see), how can you have enough faith in Jesus to save your soul (the things we can’t see)? James says you can’t. Lipservice doesn’t get it.

Jesus asks Peter three times “Do you love me?” Peter answers three times “Yes.” Three times Jesus tells him Feed my Sheep. Sounds an awful lot like if you believe you will ACT on that belief. He also talks about unfruitful trees being cast into the fire.

Paul talks about the idea that many run the race but only one wins. “So run, that ye may obtain.” He also says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. He tells Timothy to do good works. He talks about striving to attain “the resurrection of the dead”.

One of the Gospels says that blessed is the servant who is found working when the Lord returns. The whole parable of the sheep and the goats is about putting actions to your faith. Those that do go to heaven, those that don’t…well, don’t. If Matthew 25:14-30 isn’t talking about works after receiving what God has given you I don’t know what it could be about.

John the Baptist says “therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire”.

None of this even remotely suggests that you can earn Heaven apart from being in Christ. It does however say that NOT doing these works will get you kicked off that bus.

Luther is just plain wrong is his assessment.

DD

Bror, as I remember the mental tapes, the saints in Revelation 7 are the ones saved *after* the Rapture (though I’m a little cloudy on just how they get saved when the Holy Spirit has been removed from the world at the rapture). They are the 144,000 righteous Jews, 12,000 from each tribe, who spread the Gospel message to the world after the church is taken up, and for their trouble, they are beheaded and “come out of great tribulation” (such a fate seemed so medieval, unreal even, until the Iraq war). Daniel’s 70th week. Israel’s clock starts ticking again, and so forth. It’s easy to explain when you take it all literally. Not as easy if you don’t.

I don’t do eschatology. –iMonk
Avoiding the subject altogether, that’s the ticket! So then are these *not* the last days, or what? But I understand what you’re saying, why have a “doctrine of end times” if there are no end times? I guess things will just keep on getting better and better (as they have in our lifetime) until the golden messianic age is ushered in by man’s own efforts. That’s the only possible conclusion.

I am being obstreperous. I repent in sackcloth and ashes.

Fr. Ernesto:

“Once we do that, then we say that some books are somehow more Scripture than other books. Many a theological liberal would cheerfully agree with that statement.”

When there are controversies, and we want to let scripture interpret scripture to come up with the answer, it can be absolutely necessary to rank what’s more important, more apostolic, has better known authorship, etc. This is not to diminish other scripture, but sometimes the congruence or incongruence has to be worked out. This does not make us liberal. We want to find the answer in scripture.

DaveD

“No offense, but if that is what Luther believed then he was nearly 100% wrong. From the Gospels to Revelation the New Testament is riddled with discussions of fruit, deeds, the lack thereof and what it means to humanity.”

Luther did not teach that are shall be no fruits. He only taught that they need to be kept out of salvation. There needs to be a separation of concepts. If you or I, or anybody else on this blog or any other blog… thinks they have done enough deeds, they will be hypocrites or despairing. It is not honest or psychologically tenable, or in harmony with your conscience, that you will say: me or so and so really has enough fruits, love, deeds. There is never enough. You know that. I know that. I-monk knows that.

Though with all the Ron Paulistas and John Galt Celebrity Impersonators coming out of the woodwork going “I TOLD YOU SO!”, they’re going to have to take a number and wait in line.

And I suspect one small country church in PA is going to get a surprise this coming Sunday. They’ll go in expecting a conventional post-Election Day sermon on “End Time Prophecy! Obama IS The Antichrist!” and they’ll get one on “DON’T GO STUPID ON ME!”