There is and should be much discussion of Derek Webb’s new album, Stockholm Syndrome. For example, read Denny Burk’s take here, or if you are intrepid, the BHT discussion that occurred yesterday, primarily between Jared Wilson and myself.
If you haven’t heard the edgy and controversial “What Matters More,” you can hear it at Youtube. I heard that Campolo riff on comparative shock over profanity or starvation years ago, but in today’s atmosphere of prissy piety, it’s needed more than ever. Applause from me.
Derek Webb has followed a fascinating trajectory as an artist, from his days with Caedmon’s Call (including a recent contribution to their excellent last album) to worship music on various collaborations to his more prophetic, political and even strident creations on his four solo albums. Those Calvinists who were elated with Webb’s ability to actually sing about the TULIP several years ago are now being served up in-your-face portrayals of Christian bigotry and hypocrisy, especially about the treatment of gays and support for the culture war. (NOTE: I’m not saying Calvinists are bigots. If I said “Christians,” it would be accurate, but it was Calvinists who were fawning over Webb early on.)
Webb has succeeded in being that most interesting of Christian artists: one too hot for Christian radio. The arrival of mild profanity in the current album continues envelope pushing that started when Christian radio refused to play Wedding Dress and its Augustinian description of the church as a whore.
I love Webb. I consider him immensely talented. His current work is ground-breaking and I hope millions of young Christians listen to it and identify with it. But I have some thoughts.
I saw Webb live several years ago on the Mockingbird tour. He was genuinely entertaining. Today, even though I’m a fan, I’d think twice or more about whether I wanted to sit through an evening of Stockholm Syndrome. Not for a lack of creativity or artistic talent. Far from it. And not just because I’m not a fan of electronic music.
I’m just not sure I want to be pummeled by the law- and the truth about the church and culture- for an hour or two. And make no mistake about it, on the “law-Gospel” continuum, this is law and prophetic denunciation, delivered with relentless consistency. No one else is saying this stuff and Webb doesn’t miss his punches. His pleasant voice betrays his very unpleasant message. We are a captive church that is now identifying with the values of our cultural captors, and it’s not pretty. Our treatment of the gay community provides a painful example.
But our discussion at the BHT yesterday wound up talking about how we missed Rich Mullins, an artist who could have written many of the same songs, but who would have put “Hold Me Jesus” in there as a Gospel antidote to the law’s condemnation. Even on an artistic level, Mullins would have found a way to draw you in through the beauty to be found in the brokenness. If the Jesus Record was any indication, it would have been Christ centered repentance for our foolishness.
I wrestle with this in my own writing and preaching. I notice these kinds of failures of the church, but grace and the Gospel don’t register with me as naturally. Grace is there, but I’m very insensitive. But the failures of Christians and Americans? I can see them easily. My ease in spotting those issues has some risk, however; risk that I hope Webb is considering on his artistic journey.
Webb is following the way of Jeremiah and the prophets. There is no real good news here. He knows the Gospel and has skillfully delivered it before, but what’s moving his artistic soul these days are issues of faithfulness, love, compassion and mercy. To be specific, the absence of them. You can fault him for not providing a larger context- I don’t, by the way- but you can’t fault him for failing to stand by an issue until you see the stark nature of the church’s failure to be like Christ. Those of you who greet any criticism of the church with a chorus of spin about how wonderful the church is may want to stay away from Webb right now.
Christ’s presence in Webb’s recent work is more “slant” than direct. These issues demand a transformation of people like us by the spirit of Jesus. The contrast between the failures Webb sings about and the compassion of Christ is large and unavoidable, even if he chooses to make it a “Jesus shaped void” that reminds us of our need of Christ. I don’t judge Webb by the standard of “He should be singing about the Gospel” as Burk does. I do see that if you are going to use the law, at some point you must use the Gospel, otherwise, what results will be a response to guilt and pain, not to love, grace and God.
Webb’s reformed theology fan club may never forgive him for sounding more like Jim Wallis than John Calvin, but that’s been Webb’s road. If you can ever find the interview where he talks about Caedmon’s being dragged to a “Prayer of Jabez” themed show by their label, you’ll understand a little bit of what turned Webb into a critic of evangelicals. As a fellow pilgrim in the evangelical wilderness, I get it. But I’m not happy about it. And I don’t want to stay here.
Webb is an artist, and I respect his freedom to create and I encourage you to get and listen to Stockholm Syndrome. As a Christian, I want to give Webb all the artistic room possible, and my soul needs to be jolted as much as anyone. But I’d like to pray that Webb has a Lutheran turn in the near future, and finds that speaking of law and Gospel, prophetic intensity and Christ’s love are things that can go together in art and must go together in life.
Superficial comment: Never got into DW’s whiny vocals. Nails on a chalkboard for me.
Content comment: I know folks that love his music, and rail on the church and how “out of touch” we are with society. Then try and get those same folks to volunteer to deliver a meal to a shut-in, or give a ride to a needy person.
If this is Derek’s ministry, why do I have to pay $16.99 to get his CD?
I guess all us finger-pointers have somebody pointing back at us.
Sorry, Michael, I’m just grumpy today.
I’m confused by this:
“Those Calvinists who were elated with Webb’s ability to actually sing about the TULIP several years ago are now being served up in-your-face portrayals of Christian bigotry and hypocrisy, especially about the treatment of gays and support for the culture war.”
It’s not like “the Calvinists” have been alone or even at the forefront of “Christian bigotry and hypocrisy.” Our Arminian brothers and sisters have been right in there too.
I’m also confused by your last point. Why does it require a Lutheran bent to put together law and Gospel, prophetic intensity, Christ’s love and the arts? You must have a very different experience of Reformed Christians than I am having, being one myself. I guess not even Calvinists are monolithic.
Anyway, I like the comparison to Mullins very much. While I think a bit of righteous anger is good, ultimately it is a terrible place to hang out.
MK: The association of Webb with people who won’t feed shut-ins has exactly what to do with Derek Webb?
And the CD is $7.99
AMY: I’m not understanding your comments about Calvinists unless you’ve made the misread of assuming I’m saying Calvinists are bigots, which I never said. I said the people who liked his songs about Calvinism are now getting stuff that is very different. No calling any denomination bigoted.
Also, Lutherans get law and grace right when they get it right. It was a nod, not saying no one else gets it right. (Boy….beware of mentioning a group here at IM. The interpretations that come back are so far from what was intended.) I know many who get law-Gospel right.
My experience of Calvinists is like my experience of any other group of Christians. Mixed. But on the internet, they are the big dogs, so they get more mentions.
Is moderation on? My post isn’t showing up.
Content comment: I know folks that love his music, and rail on the church and how “out of touch†we are with society. Then try and get those same folks to volunteer to deliver a meal to a shut-in, or give a ride to a needy person.
If this is Derek’s ministry, why do I have to pay $16.99 to get his CD?
I guess all us finger-pointers have somebody pointing back at us.
Sorry, Michael, I’m just grumpy today.
Because this is Derek’s vocation was well as his ministry. If you want artists to be able to write, record and perform music for you to listen to, somewhere along the line someone has to pay something so they can eat and provide for their families. Otherwise, they have to devote full time to getting a different job that does not allow for the creative process as much.
Oh, and you can buy his CD directly from him for $7.99 and download it that day. For $13.99 (shipping included) you can download it now and when the physical CD releases, you’ll get two copies of it (one to give away). Not to mention, he gave away a free digital version of his album Mockingbird a couple of years ago for several months for the low, low price of helping him build an email list by providing your email and suggesting 3 friends who might also want to sign up for the list and get the free album.
So I hardly think the guy is charging outrageous prices and milking his audience.
I think the reason my previous post wasn’t showing up is that it contained a link.
Excellent analysis here. In listening to the song and reading the lyrics, I can only wonder who the target audience is for this song. As you say, it’s far more law than gospel, and the church (if that is his audience) needs the gospel to repent of culture wars, etc.. Jesus was plenty harsh, but always redemptive and restorative (sermon on the mount, anyone?). Some in our church is under significant conviction not disconnected from what Derek is saying, but where is the gospel to pick me back up? Hopefully in other songs on the album.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. The Emperor has no clothes.
How is Derek’s ‘message’ so very different from those who he criticizes? If the gospel is so veiled to be unintelligible and all we are left with is law, how is that so very different from the fundamentalists he seems to be railing against? And the fact is, as someone very mired in the evangelical world, I just don’t see what he is complaining about.
I just would love to hear why there is no message of gospel. Don’t get me wrong, I do not expect every song to say ‘Jesus’ ‘God’ or ‘gospel’ in them but when you are talking as a confessed Christian about the problems in the world and in the church and the gospel is veiled as a solution – I just would love to hear ‘why?”.
I loved his first 2 albums – probably because the prophetic nature of the lyrics were mired in the acknowledgement that the problem is not “out there” first and foremost but laden inside of “us.”That was very refreshing and rung true.
Derek Webb, for all his genius and talent, is in danger of being known for what he is against.
I loved Rich Mullins and miss him!
As to your point: I would absolutely agree with you, if Derek wasn’t the only one within Christian music circles saying and expressing this kind of stuff.
Really the only other ‘christian’ voice I can think of is Bruce Cockburn but he doesn’t have any CCM cred and I can’t sit down and listen to a whole album of his either without wanting to go out and shoot myself.
I’m ok with the album and with what he says, precisely because it serves as a corrective to all the pointless, frivolous CCM being produced today. Within that context this is stuff we need to hear and be challenged by.
I really enjoyed this post. Thank you for it.
I read the post on Denny Burk’s blog yesterday, and I read a lot of the responses, and I have to say that it broke my heart. A lot of attacking Derek Webb in a way that was neither edifying nor loving and a lot of judging a guy based on a song rather than actually talking to him and drawing conclusions there.
I actually talked to Derek before this album was officially released, I was one of a few lucky fans who ended up at his house. He told us that this album is a shield that he is using to put between culture and people he really loves and that it’s his most personal album yet. I take that to mean that he has really close friends or family who have been burned by Christians for their homosexuality and want nothing to do with Christ because of that. That breaks my heart. I respect Derek for his message and I honestly think this is his strongest release so far.
Michael,
I have a theory that when the Lord took Rich from us he took Rich’s talents and gave them to Webb and Andrew Peterson. Webb got the intensity and “prophetic” talents of Mullins and Peterson got the poetic side. Interestingly, both seem to be better at their particular skill than Mullins was, but in many ways I don’t think either of them blend both sides together as well as Mullins did (they both have distinctively “interesting” voices like Mullins did as well).
As such, my belief is that to get the full effect of the skills and calling of Derek, you need to also listen to Peterson’s music (and vise versa). I guess if you put ‘em together, you get Rich Mullins 2.0.
Regardless, Webb makes me uncomfortable and I’m ok with that. I remember him saying that “Wedding Dress” offended him, and he was ok with it. Harsh words are never comfortable, especially if they are true. Should Webb sing more songs about Grace and Love? Maybe, but considering that there is no one else singing what he does, and knowing that he understands the Grace of God pretty darn well, I honestly don’t mind him singing what he sings. God knows we need it.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. The Emperor has no clothes.
How is Derek’s ‘message’ so very different from those who he criticizes? If the gospel is so veiled to be unintelligible and all we are left with is law, how is that so very different from the fundamentalists he seems to be railing against? And the fact is, as someone very mired in the evangelical world, I just don’t see what he is complaining about.
I just would love to hear why there is no message of gospel. Don’t get me wrong, I do not expect every song to say ‘Jesus’ ‘God’ or ‘gospel’ in them but when you are talking as a confessed Christian about the problems in the world and in the church and the gospel is veiled as a solution – I just would love to hear ‘why?â€.
For the same reason that huge sections of the prophets were completely depressing. Jeremiah, Lamentations, large portions of the Psalms. Sometimes people need to hear the hard truths and marinate on just that for a while. Don’t let yourself off the hook for a little while until you’ve really pondered the implications of the critique. Don’t always flee to the happy ending and wrap up the discomfort with a neat little bow.
Scripture says that there’s a time for everything under the sun including depressing things like “a time to weep, a time to mourn” and so on. There’s a time to just hear the hard stuff and be convicted by it. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that every album has to be a microcosm of the whole of Scripture. One album can be just like one book of the Bible…hard to read but necessary medicine.
I have been a fan of Webb since the first Caedmon’s Call CD. (I have no problem with his admittedly “whiny vocals,” as I grew up listening to my parents’ folk music albums. Once you’ve heard Bob Dylan sing, you can handle anything.)
I think he’s sung enough about the grace of God over the years that questioning his commitment to it now seems a little foolish. It’s the equivalent of taking Matthew 23 out of the context of the rest of the Gospels and saying that Jesus abandoned the Good News that He’d been preaching for the previous three years (and would preach again afterward). Jesus’ statements in Matthew 23 were a specific message to specific people (the Pharisees). Stockholm Syndrome seems also to be a specific message to specific people (ditto).
As a friend of mine says, any text, taken out of context, is a pretext. I think that would apply to albums as well.
Okay, here’s a question for ye all (and I’m not using Michael as the scapegoat; I want a response from the commentators): what exactly do you mean by “singing the Gospel”?
If you mean “Come on, guy, tell me Jesus has all that covered!” then perhaps – just perhaps – his message is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable?
Maybe this album is his Epistle of James?
“So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.”
Wow, very thoughtful post. Let’s not forget, though, that Derek isn’t just pointing fingers at others. The album cover shows him with a black eye. He’s as much a captive as any of us, and he knows it. Only God’s grace can free him, and us, from that.
I think you’re right that Derek’s presentation of grace is subtle — but it’s not entirely absent. Take note of the last song on the album, “American Flag Umbrella,” in which he laments the heartache of this broken world and states, “It’ll all be okay in the end. If it’s not okay, then it’s not the end.”
Sure, that’s pretty oblique, and there’s no overt “Jesus loves you” statement here. But, to my ears, that concept informs this whole album.
Martha:
I absolutely am not saying that, and just because I talk about law and Gospel doesn’t mean I agree with the Deny Burk summation. I don’t. Let DW say what he wants. But in the larger picture, law and Gospel need each other.
I wonder if there is a shift here between what we mean by law? It seems to me that Webb is Holy angry at the lack of the Law – the Law of Love, that is. I have trouble separating the law of love from the gospel, and I imagine that Webb does too.
Maybe Webb sees his trajectory much like Isaiah. Isaiah goes as far as to say that God hates the way Israel worships because they lack care and concern for the downtrodden and oppressed. I can’t imagine expecting Webb to articulate all he has to say on the issue in one album. Looking at his work as a whole I see a beautiful story of redemption in his words but a time comes where one must stand opposed to religion if it diametrically opposes the heart of the Almighty God. My guess – we have a lot more to hear from Derek.
Ray A:
Good points, but I am a student of Merton. The Merton of 7 Storey Mountain is NOT the Merton of later writing. He evolved, and to cite his earlier work to supplement his later would be misrepresentation. I have no idea where DW is theologically, and I have every reason in his work to say he knows the Gospel well. I am just saying that the preponderance of law in the last 4 albums is a particular road, and a road with its own risks in presenting a distinctively Christian message.
Note to self: When iMonk links to another blog, don’t read the comments. Some of the comments on Burk’s post are much more offensive than a song with the s-word in it.
Yes, if you aren’t a Puritan preacher, your art is in trouble in many quarters. There’s a reason Calvin whitewashed churches.
Oh yes… Let him become Lutheran. We would be glad to have him. Come on Derek. Join us.
Robert:
That’s a good point. Some artists like Webb make their albums into a “whole” that can sound unbalanced by itself. It may require listening to the whole CD to see it in its context (rather like reading Romans, I guess)
Here’s my problems with Derek:
1. I love his lyrics, I really do. I read “What Matter’s More?” and was tickled that someone in the “Christian music biz” actually wrote it. Then I listened to the song and… well, I was just plain bored. That’s simply a matter of stylistic preference that exists in any artistic endeavor – the lyrics speak to me, the final product just doesn’t manage to do that. (I really tried to like Mockingbird stylistically, for example, but it never really grew on me).
2. Even the prophets could crack a joke every now and again, but I sometimes worry that Derek has lost some of the playfulness of the prophets at their best. It’s what made Steve Taylor so wonderful, as he leveled his aim you got the distinct sense that he was really aiming at himself. Derek is so intense that, even though is lyrics reveal his own self-aim, the presentation doesn’t seem to pull that off. See point one though – my troubles might only be because I don’t appreciate the style and so miss the nuances.
So, I appreciate Derek, but probably won’t but the “album” (in quotes because there really is no such thing anymore).
One reason that I’m not a big fan of Christian music is that most of it is so lifeless. It all resolves so nicely and life isn’t like that – neither is God (yes, Don Miller influenced me there). Are we to believe that all of Webb’s critics don’t know the gospel? They don’t understand love and grace? No, they know it too well, likely well enough to take it for granted. I haven’t heard the album yet, but we need artists who awaken us to our own hypocrisies at times. Jesus surely did that. It seems that the state of our hearts are shown when we get upset at an artist for being prophetic instead of getting upset about what he is saying. Maybe Webb is totally over the top here and I need to shut up. But, we are so comfortable in our malaise that a little corrective seems to be justified.
And, BTW, Rich Mullins was amazing. I wasn’t as much a fan of some of his earlier stuff – too much of it seemed like it was being written for youth camp, but I understand that that is where CCM was back then. But, his Liturgy, Legacy, and Ragamuffin Band album was incredible.
And then, he wrote what I believe was the greatest CCM album of all time – The Jesus Record. Just the demos. I threw the other one with the over production and the other artists singing out. No, demos. Rich on a piano and guitar in an old church. It’s about 35 minutes long and I still listen to it often. Jesus is presented in His glory and his humanity so clearly.
Rich was just starting to come into his own. If he had lived, he would have really written some amazing songs, I feel. But, God had other plans.
What Webb is doing — pointing out faults in the church — isn’t wrong in itself. It depends on his motivation and presentation in how he does it.
The prophets and apostles all had harsh words to say to Israel / the Church at times — but implicit in their words was an earnest desire to see revival come from it. Except for when God delivered word of a final (and unalterable) judgment, these men were chastising in love for the people they served and sincerely hoping their audience would come back to the faith.
If Webb can say that is his motivation — and his lyrics support it — then I see nothing wrong with what he’s doing. I think I would advise against language, if possible, simply because of common perception against it (think “do not make your brother stumble” kind of principles), but that is more of a side note.
I wrote on the subject of how we ought to judge one another as Christians (and how not to) over here if anyone is interested:
http://christspeak.com/2009/06/27/place-judging/
I for an I on Ringing Bell. DW gets the law thing. No doubt.
thank thank thank you for this post. i’ve been trying to say the same things at my site, and haven’t been able to articulate it as well you have here.
thanks.
Quote from wezlo: 2. Even the prophets could crack a joke every now and again, but I sometimes worry that Derek has lost some of the playfulness of the prophets at their best. It’s what made Steve Taylor so wonderful, as he leveled his aim you got the distinct sense that he was really aiming at himself. Derek is so intense that, even though is lyrics reveal his own self-aim, the presentation doesn’t seem to pull that off. See point one though – my troubles might only be because I don’t appreciate the style and so miss the nuances.
This is really an album you have to listen to in its entirety. If you think he’s lost how to have fun, give a listen to “Jena and Jimmy” – track 11 on the album. What a fun song!
I think a lot of talk has been devoted to “What Matters More” but by far the song that speaks strongest to me is “The Spirit vs. The Kick Drum”. The song basically boils down to this:
“I don’t want The Spirit I want the kick drum”
“I don’t want The Son I want a jury of peers”
“I don’t want The Father I want a vending machine” I think we can all see ourselves in at least one of these statements – most of us “intellectuals” probably identify most with the first – more interested in the steady beat of the kick drum (following a structured path) than following the Spirit.
There’s a lot of the old Derek on this album. There’s also a lot of stretching of the audience, both musically and in thought. Having listened to it a few times it is really growing on me and I think it is perhaps his best album to date, though I still love “The House Show.”
My biggest question on the album is about the song “Freddie, Please” which seems to be written from the perspective of a dead person singing to Fred Phelps. It seems to me that he gives Fred too much credit when he says “How can you say you love me when you hate me?” To the best of my knowledge Fred claims the people he pickets are enemies of God and he has no love for them. Am I wrong?
At any rate – please don’t base your opinions of this album on one song and don’t write it off because it has techno beats and you’re not a fan (I’m really not either). Get it, play it a few times, and give it a chance.
Rich Mullins has spoiled me for a lot of what passes as “Christian Music” today. Some of his lyrics shake up the sentimental plastic Sunday School Jesus I grew up with, but his Jesus is always front and center and real…all the way to kingdom come. Jesus Record really was his testimony, and I listen to it often.
That said, I doubt if Rich would have been offended by Derek Webb’s “What Matters More”.
And I don’t know that Jesus is, either.
I think Jesus is more offended by a Church that ignores His commands in favor of communal and personal comfort–a people who refuse to go to dinner with publicans and sinners or love the broken.
I haven’t read anyone on this thread offended by that song’s language.
On Burk’s comment thread, you’ll find plenty of that.
iMonk:
Thanks for the clarifications – I was misreading digs at Calvinism where I now see there were none intended.
kcillini7 said:
“I don’t want The Spirit I want the kick drumâ€
“I don’t want The Son I want a jury of peersâ€
“I don’t want The Father I want a vending machine†I think we can all see ourselves in at least one of these statements – most of us “intellectuals†probably identify most with the first – more interested in the steady beat of the kick drum (following a structured path) than following the Spirit.
Not that your interpretation there isn’t a good one… but I’m sure if that’s what Derek meant by “the spirit vs. the kick drum.” There was an interview that was done back when Caedmon’s released their worship album, In the Company of Angels, in which Cliff Young mentioned a story that Rich Mullins told them back before he died… he said that people would come up to him after concerts and say, “The Spirit really started moving during that song.” And Rich would respond, “No, that’s just the part where the bass and the kick drum comes in.”
In other words, I think Derek was talking about the Church’s overemphasis on emotions in worship. WHICH IS A MESSAGE THAT ALL OF THE CALVINISTS WILL SUPPORT!!
IM said “I haven’t read anyone on this thread offended by that song’s language.”
That’s a reflection of the type of readers you attract. : ) (I kid, I kid)
I take back my “whiny” comment above, it’s more nasal–that’s how I sound, so I don’t want to hear it in a song. Instrumentals are great, and the songs are hit or miss.
Like others, I think the Rich Mullins model (be sponsored by a church for your salary) would make Christian music more palatable for me, and today’s technology would make it more accessible.
But I do think there should be more convicting Christian music out there and less “I can Only Imagine” stuff.
SOMETHING ELSE, that I think everyone who has commented on the song, anywhere, has missed:
The following line:
“denying all the dying of the remedy”
He’s clearly referring to those who have been hated for their sin (he’s clearly referring specifically to homosexuals). He’s calling them “the dying.” So whats the remedy? I’m pretty sure that Derek would clearly say that the gospel is the remedy.
Now, I know its not explicit, but the Gospel is there, even in this song.
But, this song is clearly directed toward those who already know and believe the Gospel:
“Cause if you really believed what you say you believe; you wouldn’t be so damn reckless with the words you speak”
If they really believe the Gospel and the love of Jesus towards sinners, then they wouldn’t be so quick to condemn sinners and, in turn, deny them the remedy, aka, the gospel…
Maybe I’m stretching it, but I don’t think so…
MK: Get off the top 40 and the major labels. There’s a world of great CM that no station will ever play. Heck, the most talented people in the biz are practically selling music out of their cars. Don’t trust the corporate crap passing for CCM.
Does the whole album sound like this one sound?
song i meant not sound
Michael,
Great thoughts here. Law and gospel must be distinguished but never separated. I think you are exactly right about how Rich Mullins would have done it better.
Here’s my concern with Derek Webb’s trajectory. As one who has never really listened to him all that much (even when he was with Caedmon’s Call), I may be misrepresenting him here, so please let me know if I am way off. But here it goes:
Is Webb becoming one more Christian leader who is defining discipleship in terms of a leftist political agenda? Every time I hear someone talking about feeding the hungry or anything like that, this is what I have to ask:
What exactly are they proposing? Are they automatically assuming that if average church members had any real compassion, they would be sold out for Obama-type, big government, massive spending solutions to try to “make poverty history” (a hopelessly naive slogan popular a few years ago)?
Prophets are badly needed at all times. But I wish those prophets who call the church to repentance would do a better job distinguishing real repentance from left-wing ideology.
Brandon said: “Not that your interpretation there isn’t a good one… but I’m sure if that’s what Derek meant by “the spirit vs. the kick drum.†There was an interview that was done back when Caedmon’s released their worship album, In the Company of Angels, in which Cliff Young mentioned a story that Rich Mullins told them back before he died… he said that people would come up to him after concerts and say, “The Spirit really started moving during that song.†And Rich would respond, “No, that’s just the part where the bass and the kick drum comes in.â€
In other words, I think Derek was talking about the Church’s overemphasis on emotions in worship. WHICH IS A MESSAGE THAT ALL OF THE CALVINISTS WILL SUPPORT!!”
Thanks for that insight – you’re probably right. I probably looked past the obvious for deeper meaning. I was thinking that the kick drum just kind of “keeps the beat” rather than interjecting lots of excitement into music. And those of us who are hungry for book learnin’ tend to throw stones at the charismatics sometimes enough that we sometimes risk rejecting the Spirit entirely.
Regardless of the interpretation I think the song is important in that it speaks to our desire for substitutes rather than the real triune God we have.
Aaron – the music definitely has a techno flavor throughout, but he hasn’t totally abandoned his roots either.
Imonk: So where does one look to find the hidden gems of CM? There used to be a site called grassrootsmusic that had a lot of no name CM artists, but it got sucked up by Christianbook.com or something and now nothing’s for free. I honestly don’t know where to look (maybe Youtube?)
kcillini77 – I’ll listen, but I’ve not been a fan of his older music either so I’m not really expecting much.
Like I said, I appreciated Derek’s boldness (and I’m grateful that you’ve caught some playfulness too). We need that. Just not a fan musically – if it hits pandora radio I’ll make sure I listen to it.
Here’s my view on it: yes. Yes, we need to distinguish law and gospel and not separate it, but we also must get better at loving. I see both sides (even though I know it’s not a battle, good v. evil, etc., etc.). Derek’s saying we must love better. IMonk has a valid point in saying that they are intermixed. Just my thoughts.
Michael – Reading your discussion at BHT with Jared reminded me of a useful T.S. Eliot anecodte. Eliot was once doing a poetry reading somewhere in the midwest and at the end of the reading a woman stood up and asked him what one of his poems meant. Befuddled, Eliot looked at her and said, “you mean you want me to say it worse?”
Great post, by the way.
imonk,
Amen to the “corporate crap selling for CCM”.
The local Christian radio station here in our town has DJ’s who sound like they are always smiling, 24/7, and the music that they play just seems fluffy to me. They do play Rich Mullins occasionally, but only like two of his songs.
You are right that there are a lot of really talented Christian artists out there, but they aren’t getting the air time and it is frustrating.
I mean, I am sorry but something is wrong when the songs being played on Christian radio sound just like Brittany Spears or the Jonas Brothers.
Thanks for the balanced review iMonk. Derek’s music is not really my style but I like it in moderation. And “Wedding Dress” is still one of my favorites. For 7.99 I may have to check out this one.
Mk : Try Square Peg Alliance for a start.
What I see Webb doing here is essentially getting into the same ground that ‘Pedro the Lion’ has been in for the past decade or two, but with a different sound, and slightly less cynical perspective.
Though I have to say I probably like PtL’s style better. Still can’t listen to it often, as it’s really depressing. *grin*
I think that another important aspect of this is that many modern artists are not thinking in terms of “will this please my audience” but “is this true to me”. Artists like Alannis Morrisette and Fiona Apple talk about how they won’t even listen to other artists, so that nothing overlaps, and Bono of U2 is quite open about the fact that all of their albums come out of what interests them and what they want to say, not out of what they think will sell more albums.
Though they do.
The question is not “does Derek Webb please me?” but “Is he expressing a valid artistic view?”
As for the presence of the Gospel in his music…do his other albums express the Gospel? Yes? Then stop interpreting this album outside of context. All of his albums come from him, it’s simply no fair to judge any album only in terms of itself.
Mk,
I great place to start for looking for hidden gyms of CM is The Square Peg Alliance.
Michael,
Yeah, I’d like to know too. Where do you find the great Christian music like you’re laking about. I turned off my radio some time ago and never listen to CCM. I used to like modern worship music, but most of that is commercial now to. Where do you turn?
I don’t use “Christian” as much of a category.
Cornerstone Bands
Relevant Magazine
Paste Magazine
Steve McCoy recommendations
Old guys with no record label anymore: Terry Taylor, Mike Roe, etc.