Comments on: Thoughts on Beckwith

By: iMonk

iMonk — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:17:43 +0000

>If all 8000+ U.S. denominations are legitimate, who is to say Rome is not? If you’re willing to concede that the Catholic Church is at least a Church, then the logical thing to do is to become Catholic. So my question is, is the Catholic Church a Church?

1) I don’t know who you are reading, but I certainly believe Rome is a church and “legitimate,” if by that you mean the Gospel exists in it.

2) But unless YOU believe that Rome is a) infallible or b) the only true church, then it is NOT “the only logical” choice.

3) I believe Rome is neither infallible, nor the only true church.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:41:00 +0000

Good article. I’m a seminary student now, but I came to faith through a para-Church ministry. How does one coming from a para-Church decide which tradition to go with? I’d consider myself a Calvinists for the past five years, but since I read Orthodoxy, and some other Chesterton material I’ve been increasingly attracted to Rome. If all 8000+ U.S. denominations are legitimate, who is to say Rome is not? If you’re willing to concede that the Catholic Church is at least a Church, then the logical thing to do is to become Catholic. So my question is, is the Catholic Church a Church?

By: PhilPilgrim

PhilPilgrim — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:14:20 +0000

Confessional Reformed/Presbyterians (like myself) point the finger at dumbed-down “post-evangelical” worship for the Catholic exodus. In addition, we have been grappling with another leaven corrupting our churches: the Federal Vision.

Perhaps the migration in doctrine and worship goes like this:

Evangelical -> Post-evangelical -> Reformed (Pentecostal worship) -> Reformed -> Reformed (Liturgical) -> Federal Vision -> Roman Catholic (or Orthodox)

When post-evangelicals get burned out by fun and games posing as youth Bible studies, talk shows as sermons, and Mother Goose rhymes as worship, they then find themselves in Reformed churches. As they get weary lugging their post-evangelical doctrine and worship baggage, they discover not only the beauty of liturgy, but also the transcendence of the church and sacraments, hence the Federal Vision. Then, Catholicism, “the only true church,” is just around the corner.

Here’s my post on Pope Benedict’s recent “clarifications” on the “true church:

http://doctrineunites.wordpress.com/

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Tue, 22 May 2007 10:28:29 +0000

Dear Internetmonk (love the title!),

You said, “Scripture and tradition are not equal. There is no infallibility in the human element of the church”. But if God could inspire sinners like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (definitely a human element of the church!!) to write infallible scripture, why couldn’t He inspire other human beings, under very limited circumstances, to be infallible? Just a thought.

Peace and God bless.

Rebecca

By: Herdian Aprilani

Herdian Aprilani — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:51:23 +0000

Reversion to the Catholic Church among her members, especially among those who have now occupied preeminent positions in their walks of life, both in the United States and elsewhere, is something for which we, as Catholics, need to be truly grateful and about which the people who are used to be, or not yet, Catholics need to give serious thoughts.
My reception into the Catholic Church (as someone from Muslim background) last Christmas (2006) can be called, in a sense, an act of reversion. For it was the Catholic Church that I had in mind when I wanted to become a Christian, yet, mostly through ignorance of my own, and partly because of lack of good testimony from the Catholics around me, I was baptised in one of the evangelical (international) churches in my country, and, as a consequence, I’m presently still, though soon no longer, working for its interests!
Dr. Beckwith’s reversion to the Catholic Church hopefully will ignite some spark of interest in, and appreciation to, the Church among her dormant members, and will give conviction and comfort among her faithful members who are currently being tempted, from within or without, to question their belief in her teachings, which were truly received from Jesus her Lord, were faithfully handed down by the apostles, are carefully guarded by her present adherents, and will be mightily protected until the end of the age by The Holy Spirit, in whose inspiration she proclaims the truth to the whole world.

By: David Raber

David Raber — Sat, 19 May 2007 04:59:46 +0000

You’re quite right, Mr. I-Monk: Scripture is not equal to tradition. Scripture IS tradition, written down, and recognized by the Church as a special category of God-inspired writing embodying that tradition. I’m sure you’ve heard the old canard, “The Church made the Bible; the Bible didn’t make the Church.”

The New Testament was put together from writings used by the early Christians in their worship and their study of the faith. These writings, in effect, got the votes of the believing congregations who used them, i.e., the Church as the people of God (vox populi, vox dei); and then their choices were considered and passed upon by the Church’s leadership, the bishops–and so the New Testament was officially made. Soon after, St. Jerome was kind enough to put it into Latin, and the rest is history, as they say.

The Church (people and leadership together) was the Editor-in-Chief and Publisher of the Bible, led by the Holy Spirit in its work, as it is led by the spirit in all things (best case scenario there!)–as I believe as a convert to Catholicism.

The same Church that made the Bible, to our great benefit as Christians, still exists as an actual institution. It is the Roman Catholic Church. It is the Real Deal, and as far as I can tell, it is where you need to be to follow Jesus in the very best way you can. It seems that this is what Dr. Beckwith came to see.

Thanks for your site; I plan to read more of it.

Dave

By: Rich

Rich — Wed, 16 May 2007 12:21:08 +0000

Spaxx,
Who on this message board has thusfar asserted that “if we lead a good moral life, we are in the state of salvation?” Sounds like a straw-man argument and not addressing previous points we’ve made in response to your original post. Please see my previous post and we can discuss further. May the Lord God bless you.

Rich

By: spaxx

spaxx — Tue, 15 May 2007 16:16:56 +0000

The Catholic Church teaches infallibly: ‘Outside the Church there is no salvation’.

“The Catholic Church alone keeps the true worship. It is the Church of Truth, the home of the Faith, the temple of God; he who does not enter it or he who leaves it, loses all hope of life and salvation. Do not let anyone hold a dogged view. It is a question of life and of salvation. If one does not watch out carefully and prudently, it is ruination and death.” (Lactantius; IIIrd c., Catholic apologist.).

There is a belief today, that a man may be saved in any religion, provided he lives a good moral life, according to the light he has. By this, the faith of Christ is evacuated, and the Gospel rendered of no avail; a Jew, a Turk, a Heathen, are all comprehended in this scheme, and if they live a good moral life have as good a right to salvation as a Christian!

“To be a member of the Church of Christ is no longer necessary, since, if we lead a good moral life, we are in the state of salvation, whether we belong to her or not. What a wide field does this give to the passions of men, liberty to all the whims of the human mind. It is therefore of the utmost consequence to state and to show plainly the revealed Catholic truth that there is no salvation out of the Catholic Church.”

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Mon, 14 May 2007 22:43:33 +0000

Scripturizer plug in

By: Lynn

Lynn — Mon, 14 May 2007 22:42:33 +0000

O.K. I soooo want the techno-gizmo that turns the Bible verse into a link.

What’s a girl gotta do to get one?