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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts From The Empty Road (For Greg)</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Cole Matson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-515765</link>
		<dc:creator>Cole Matson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-515765</guid>
		<description>I am one of many who have left Protestantism for Catholicism. My sister is one of many who have left Christianity for unbelief. Both of us were raised among (though not as) fundamentalists. I don&#039;t think that had much to do with my departure. I know it had something to do with my sister&#039;s.

I&#039;ll pray for Greg and for you. If you wouldn&#039;t mind, please say a prayer for my sister as well.

It definitely hurts. All we can do is trust the Hound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of many who have left Protestantism for Catholicism. My sister is one of many who have left Christianity for unbelief. Both of us were raised among (though not as) fundamentalists. I don&#8217;t think that had much to do with my departure. I know it had something to do with my sister&#8217;s.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll pray for Greg and for you. If you wouldn&#8217;t mind, please say a prayer for my sister as well.</p>
<p>It definitely hurts. All we can do is trust the Hound.</p>
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		<title>By: Creating the Christian Culture Bubble &#171; Reflections on Spiritual Formation</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514874</link>
		<dc:creator>Creating the Christian Culture Bubble &#171; Reflections on Spiritual Formation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514874</guid>
		<description>[...]  Earlier, I posted about creating &#8220;The Christian Culture Bubble&#8221; in reference to a tale told by the Internet Monk.Â  My point was to note that we seem to create our own realities that deny the real world around [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Earlier, I posted about creating &#8220;The Christian Culture Bubble&#8221; in reference to a tale told by the Internet Monk.Â  My point was to note that we seem to create our own realities that deny the real world around [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514863</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514863</guid>
		<description>God: My road has been so empty as well, Help me to find you as I travel on.


God I pray that you will help me to handle my harvest! I know that much of what I am now reaping is from what I have sown in the past and it is a harvest that I must do something with. There are people you love that I must deal with in Godly ways. Help me lord to hear from you hour by hour with the wisdom of what I must say / do to make this harvest work to your Glory. I want to continue sowing and seeing what a new and better crop can be grown for your glory. Give me strength God

Paul said: &quot;Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart&quot; (Gal. 6:7-9).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God: My road has been so empty as well, Help me to find you as I travel on.</p>
<p>God I pray that you will help me to handle my harvest! I know that much of what I am now reaping is from what I have sown in the past and it is a harvest that I must do something with. There are people you love that I must deal with in Godly ways. Help me lord to hear from you hour by hour with the wisdom of what I must say / do to make this harvest work to your Glory. I want to continue sowing and seeing what a new and better crop can be grown for your glory. Give me strength God</p>
<p>Paul said: &#8220;Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart&#8221; (Gal. 6:7-9).</p>
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		<title>By: Loman Totempole</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514856</link>
		<dc:creator>Loman Totempole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514856</guid>
		<description>&quot;I see no reason to put your Bible on the shelf &quot;

but apparently MWPeak did see the need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see no reason to put your Bible on the shelf &#8221;</p>
<p>but apparently MWPeak did see the need.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Todd</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514780</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514780</guid>
		<description>We see people who make choices we would not have made.  We observe human calamaties, some arriving from the inside, and others from the outside.  We hurt for the innocent and wonder what we might have done to bring about a different outcome.  

We see people arrive that we would not have expected to see.   We hear about results that should not have happened.  We rejoice at the wonder of it all.

There are questions that might never be answered to us in this world or the next.  There are hopes that might not be met in this world, and won&#039;t be part of the equation in the next.  Greg appears to be gone.  I was gifted with faith several decades ago.  Why Greg?   Why me?  I&#039;ve asked questions that I haven&#039;t recognized an answer for, but recognized that I have had other questions answered.

The Jews prayed for a long time, seeking freedom from their slavery in Egypt.  Eventually their prayers were answered.

Augustine&#039;s mother Monica prayed for him for 30 years, even to tears, and eventually her prayers were answered.  

Perhaps someone will do the same for Greg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We see people who make choices we would not have made.  We observe human calamaties, some arriving from the inside, and others from the outside.  We hurt for the innocent and wonder what we might have done to bring about a different outcome.  </p>
<p>We see people arrive that we would not have expected to see.   We hear about results that should not have happened.  We rejoice at the wonder of it all.</p>
<p>There are questions that might never be answered to us in this world or the next.  There are hopes that might not be met in this world, and won&#8217;t be part of the equation in the next.  Greg appears to be gone.  I was gifted with faith several decades ago.  Why Greg?   Why me?  I&#8217;ve asked questions that I haven&#8217;t recognized an answer for, but recognized that I have had other questions answered.</p>
<p>The Jews prayed for a long time, seeking freedom from their slavery in Egypt.  Eventually their prayers were answered.</p>
<p>Augustine&#8217;s mother Monica prayed for him for 30 years, even to tears, and eventually her prayers were answered.  </p>
<p>Perhaps someone will do the same for Greg.</p>
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		<title>By: TeeDee</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514778</link>
		<dc:creator>TeeDee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514778</guid>
		<description>Interesting post, for sure.  I know that my faith took a huge hit after working in an environment which had only church people, as opposed to former jobs in the secular world.  Never again.  I&#039;m still trying to regain my footing months later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, for sure.  I know that my faith took a huge hit after working in an environment which had only church people, as opposed to former jobs in the secular world.  Never again.  I&#8217;m still trying to regain my footing months later.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514742</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514742</guid>
		<description>Hey Nate;

I know it may sound trite, but when we approach the Lord by thinking or saying &quot;what have you done for me lately (like show up)&quot; we carry a chip on our shoulder, which impedes our hearing Him. As Michael said &quot;your fallen critical faculties will make you doubt anything.&quot; 

I have experienced that, it was only when I set aside what I thought I knew, because after all, I really don&#039;t know anything. And I said, &quot;Lord I give up, I need to listen to You and quit relying on my own &#039;genius&#039;,&quot; that I was able to hear Him and discover that He cares for me as much as I hoped He did.
 
This is a hard thing these days, because we are taught that we can&#039;t hear Him. If you don&#039;t believe that, try telling the next ten people you meet on the street that you hear God and see how that goes.

Anyway I&#039;m not sure that community, is the answer in this case, if the faith communities around you cannot hear God. 
People who can&#039;t hear God, will only give you pat answers, or blank stares, if you express your doubts about His showing up. And they won&#039;t encourage you to pursue something which they do not believe is possible.

The answer is in scripture, communication with the Lord is always prefaced by humbling one&#039;s self. That is, acknowledging the reality of His pre-eminence, and then acknowledging your minuteness, your dependence upon Him. It is the ultimate reality check.

Is this the same as being worthless? No not at all, If Jesus thought it worthwhile to die for you, then how could you be worthless, you are priceless. 
Your worth is based on His evaluation not yours.

Nathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nate;</p>
<p>I know it may sound trite, but when we approach the Lord by thinking or saying &#8220;what have you done for me lately (like show up)&#8221; we carry a chip on our shoulder, which impedes our hearing Him. As Michael said &#8220;your fallen critical faculties will make you doubt anything.&#8221; </p>
<p>I have experienced that, it was only when I set aside what I thought I knew, because after all, I really don&#8217;t know anything. And I said, &#8220;Lord I give up, I need to listen to You and quit relying on my own &#8216;genius&#8217;,&#8221; that I was able to hear Him and discover that He cares for me as much as I hoped He did.</p>
<p>This is a hard thing these days, because we are taught that we can&#8217;t hear Him. If you don&#8217;t believe that, try telling the next ten people you meet on the street that you hear God and see how that goes.</p>
<p>Anyway I&#8217;m not sure that community, is the answer in this case, if the faith communities around you cannot hear God.<br />
People who can&#8217;t hear God, will only give you pat answers, or blank stares, if you express your doubts about His showing up. And they won&#8217;t encourage you to pursue something which they do not believe is possible.</p>
<p>The answer is in scripture, communication with the Lord is always prefaced by humbling one&#8217;s self. That is, acknowledging the reality of His pre-eminence, and then acknowledging your minuteness, your dependence upon Him. It is the ultimate reality check.</p>
<p>Is this the same as being worthless? No not at all, If Jesus thought it worthwhile to die for you, then how could you be worthless, you are priceless.<br />
Your worth is based on His evaluation not yours.</p>
<p>Nathan</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514727</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514727</guid>
		<description>Nate, I want you to know that I (at least I think) I share your frustration (which is not focused on Michael or his blog here). I also share your doubt as to where God is at the moment... any moment. For me, the bible and the church have been little help.

While I agree with Michael that you cannot demand that God &quot;show up&quot;, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s unreasonable to beg the question, &quot;Where is God, then?&quot;, when you&#039;ve done all you have ever been told to do and he still hasn&#039;t shown up as promised.

I can&#039;t give you hope or erase your doubts. But... Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Do you have kids? Do you like sunsets? Is there anything in life you enjoy? Are there any people in your life who care about you? If so, even in little tiny bits, then God is there. If there is anything that softens your heart in this world, it&#039;s my belief God is behind it, somehow.

Michael is right... you need a real person looking at you to discuss this. I also know that may be hard to find--it has been for me. Sometimes these blogs are all we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate, I want you to know that I (at least I think) I share your frustration (which is not focused on Michael or his blog here). I also share your doubt as to where God is at the moment&#8230; any moment. For me, the bible and the church have been little help.</p>
<p>While I agree with Michael that you cannot demand that God &#8220;show up&#8221;, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable to beg the question, &#8220;Where is God, then?&#8221;, when you&#8217;ve done all you have ever been told to do and he still hasn&#8217;t shown up as promised.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t give you hope or erase your doubts. But&#8230; Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Do you have kids? Do you like sunsets? Is there anything in life you enjoy? Are there any people in your life who care about you? If so, even in little tiny bits, then God is there. If there is anything that softens your heart in this world, it&#8217;s my belief God is behind it, somehow.</p>
<p>Michael is right&#8230; you need a real person looking at you to discuss this. I also know that may be hard to find&#8211;it has been for me. Sometimes these blogs are all we have.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514722</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514722</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re voicing one of the primary reasons that we all can&#039;t demand a subjective experience of God whenever we want. We need a community that will carry us through times of not experiencing God and help us learn to perceive God in Word and Sacarament, in the poor and in creation.

You have to realize that when your approach is front loaded to demand God &quot;show up&quot; your fallen critical faculties will make you doubt anything. There is NO situation in the Bible - from the parting of the Red Sea to the ressurection- that goes beyond the human capacity to doubt. You can&#039;t demand that simply go away because you demand God remove your doubts.

We&#039;re not worthless. That&#039;s a terrible way to understand the Gospel. I hope you aren&#039;t in a church that encourages that kind of self-evaluation. I have no idea what you are struggling with in your life that produces that feeling, but the Gospel is good news of being loved by God and enjoying that love, not of learning to grovel and hate ourselves. You certainly never heard that here.

Find a community that will feed your faith in Christ by way of Word and Sacrament, not subjective experience. Remember that we are human, not angels, and the walk is by faith, not by sight or feeling.

And find a real person to talk to :-) I&#039;m not adequate for the task.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re voicing one of the primary reasons that we all can&#8217;t demand a subjective experience of God whenever we want. We need a community that will carry us through times of not experiencing God and help us learn to perceive God in Word and Sacarament, in the poor and in creation.</p>
<p>You have to realize that when your approach is front loaded to demand God &#8220;show up&#8221; your fallen critical faculties will make you doubt anything. There is NO situation in the Bible &#8211; from the parting of the Red Sea to the ressurection- that goes beyond the human capacity to doubt. You can&#8217;t demand that simply go away because you demand God remove your doubts.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not worthless. That&#8217;s a terrible way to understand the Gospel. I hope you aren&#8217;t in a church that encourages that kind of self-evaluation. I have no idea what you are struggling with in your life that produces that feeling, but the Gospel is good news of being loved by God and enjoying that love, not of learning to grovel and hate ourselves. You certainly never heard that here.</p>
<p>Find a community that will feed your faith in Christ by way of Word and Sacrament, not subjective experience. Remember that we are human, not angels, and the walk is by faith, not by sight or feeling.</p>
<p>And find a real person to talk to <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m not adequate for the task.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/thoughts-from-the-empty-road-for-greg/comment-page-2#comment-514719</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4692#comment-514719</guid>
		<description>Ok, I understand that you were sharing something personal and I should not have started my post the way I did and I am sorry for that.  
I don&#039;t want the Christian writer to, &quot;help people stifle their honest doubts and feelings&quot;.  However, I am looking for somewhere to find hope in the face of my doubts. I get that I am worthless and need Christ.  I get that.  If God is so real then why doesn&#039;t he respond.  Why can I not believe when I really want to.  I have prayed, &quot;I believe. Help my unbelief.&quot;  But all I get is crickets.  Where is God in that?  It seems all I have is pretend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I understand that you were sharing something personal and I should not have started my post the way I did and I am sorry for that.<br />
I don&#8217;t want the Christian writer to, &#8220;help people stifle their honest doubts and feelings&#8221;.  However, I am looking for somewhere to find hope in the face of my doubts. I get that I am worthless and need Christ.  I get that.  If God is so real then why doesn&#8217;t he respond.  Why can I not believe when I really want to.  I have prayed, &#8220;I believe. Help my unbelief.&#8221;  But all I get is crickets.  Where is God in that?  It seems all I have is pretend.</p>
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