Comments on: Those Know-Nothing Evangelicals http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:25:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: wordsmith http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-913 wordsmith Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-913 you have really nailed the current state of the "evangelical" church in the states. makes me sick to my stomach - all i can think about is "Laodicea". between the cgm and fellows like Clark Pinnock, evangelicalism has morphed into something other than Christian, sad to say. you have really nailed the current state of the “evangelical” church in the states. makes me sick to my stomach - all i can think about is “Laodicea”. between the cgm and fellows like Clark Pinnock, evangelicalism has morphed into something other than Christian, sad to say.

]]> By: Jim Gieseke http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-914 Jim Gieseke Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-914 Another well written article by Mr. Spencer showing that the evangelical emporer is buck naked. Two questions: 1. Does one's eschatology affect how one views such news? (are we expecting to win the world for Jesus or are we expecting that great apostasy might occur). 2. Is there a tendency to overlook the supernatural component of false or apostate teachings in the Reform perspective? Jim Gieseke Houston, Texas Another well written article by Mr. Spencer showing that the evangelical emporer is buck naked.

Two questions:

1. Does one’s eschatology affect how one views such news? (are we expecting to win the world for Jesus or are we expecting that great apostasy might occur).

2. Is there a tendency to overlook the supernatural component of false or apostate teachings in the Reform perspective?

Jim Gieseke
Houston, Texas

]]> By: imonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-915 imonk Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-915 Reformed eschatology is rather chaotic. Most of us wind up saying things like amil + postmil+ get back to me. I am an optimisit about the church in the non west and a pessimist about the church in the west. See Iain Murray, The Puritan Hope. If Piper ever writes his eschatology, I will buy it. Till then...Sam Waldron will do. I think many Reformed folks are cautious about Spiritual warfarism. I know I am. And getting more so. Thanks for reading the essay. Reformed eschatology is rather chaotic. Most of us wind up saying things like amil + postmil+ get back to me. I am an optimisit about the church in the non west and a pessimist about the church in the west. See Iain Murray, The Puritan Hope. If Piper ever writes his eschatology, I will buy it. Till then…Sam Waldron will do.

I think many Reformed folks are cautious about Spiritual warfarism. I know I am. And getting more so.

Thanks for reading the essay.

]]> By: Jim Gieseke http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-916 Jim Gieseke Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-916 I am not Iain Murray, and my information is limited, but the impression I am getting is that the explosionn in Christianity in the third world is largely an export of heresies exported from the United States. That seems to be the case in Nigeria. I have less optimism about the organized church, but believe that God is able to preserve a believing remnant and has done so during the 20 centuries since Jesus Christ walked the earth. As for spiritual warfare, no lover of the Truth wants to buy what the "latter rain/new apostolic" and other types are selling and start marching around the block looking for demonic strongholds, yet we do have some clear scriptures indicating that Satan blinds the eyes of unbelievers, that he has his own ministers, and we are warned repeatedly that we have a duty to study, to exercise discernment and not be deceived. One's ability to be deceived seems to have little relationship to one's intelligence or ability to use logic, and I think we err in the other direction if we overlook either the enemy's capabilities or the Holy Spirit's role in opening blinded eyes. Mr. Spencer, I really enjoy so many of your posts and I praise God that He has given you such a gift. May God use your gifts to the edification of the body. To God alone be the Glory! Jim Gieseke (an Arminian who loves to read Reform and Puritan writers), in Houston, Texas I am not Iain Murray, and my information is limited, but the impression I am getting is that the explosionn in Christianity in the third world is largely an export of heresies exported from the United States. That seems to be the case in Nigeria.

I have less optimism about the organized church, but believe that God is able to preserve a believing remnant and has done so during the 20 centuries since Jesus Christ walked the earth.

As for spiritual warfare, no lover of the Truth wants to buy what the “latter rain/new apostolic”
and other types are selling and start marching around the block looking for demonic strongholds, yet we do have some clear scriptures indicating that Satan blinds the eyes of unbelievers, that he has his own ministers, and we are warned repeatedly that we have a duty to study, to exercise discernment and not be deceived. One’s ability to be deceived seems to have little relationship to one’s intelligence or ability to use logic, and I think we err in the other direction if we overlook either the enemy’s capabilities or the Holy Spirit’s role in opening blinded eyes.

Mr. Spencer, I really enjoy so many of your posts and I praise God that He has given you such a gift. May God use your gifts to the edification of the body.

To God alone be the Glory!

Jim Gieseke (an Arminian who loves to read Reform and Puritan writers), in Houston, Texas

]]> By: tom smedley http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-917 tom smedley Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-917 one encouraging sign is the emergence of respect for Reformed scholarship in some charismatic churches. The founding pastor of our church (www.kpic.org) jokes about having almost finished his degree from "reform school" -- Reformed Theological Seminary. During one sabbatical, he'd get up in the wee hours, to go sit in a bathtub and soak up big chunks of Calvin's writings. The Every Nation denomination our church belongs to (www.everynation.org) is forthrightly confessional, in that we expect new members to complete a series of lessons on the hard cold specifics of our doctrine. Our "Every Nation School of Ministry" combines theological and practical training. C. Peter Wagner called it one of the best in the world. Take courage, brother. God is stirring up in his people a hunger for substance. one encouraging sign is the emergence of respect for Reformed scholarship in some charismatic churches. The founding pastor of our church (www.kpic.org) jokes about having almost finished his degree from “reform school” — Reformed Theological Seminary. During one sabbatical, he’d get up in the wee hours, to go sit in a bathtub and soak up big chunks of Calvin’s writings. The Every Nation denomination our church belongs to (www.everynation.org) is forthrightly confessional, in that we expect new members to complete a series of lessons on the hard cold specifics of our doctrine. Our “Every Nation School of Ministry” combines theological and practical training. C. Peter Wagner called it one of the best in the world.

Take courage, brother. God is stirring up in his people a hunger for substance.

]]> By: Matt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-918 Matt Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-918 With due respect Tom, I've heard a lot of troubling things about Wagner and YWAM. With due respect Tom, I’ve heard a lot of troubling things about Wagner and YWAM.

]]> By: imonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-919 imonk Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-919 YWAM is a good organization, but they have embraced Openness Theology, which is a major problem. YWAM is a good organization, but they have embraced Openness Theology, which is a major problem.

]]> By: Matt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-920 Matt Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-920 I've read some "touch not the Lord's anointed" stuff about YWAM; lots of talk about control issues. I'm not sure I believe it all, but it's out there for talk. If anyone ever has a clear view on it, I'd love to hear it. I’ve read some “touch not the Lord’s anointed” stuff about YWAM; lots of talk about control issues. I’m not sure I believe it all, but it’s out there for talk. If anyone ever has a clear view on it, I’d love to hear it.

]]> By: Paul Whiting http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-921 Paul Whiting Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-921 The main problem with YWAM is that it's become a hybrid of neo-Pentecostalism and Finney-inspired "moral government" theology over the years. A version of open theism has been a part of that theology for years. Mostly the people at YWAM are really nice in a spiritual hothouse kind of way; good place to find a spouse too; pity about the rubbish theology. The main problem with YWAM is that it’s become a hybrid of neo-Pentecostalism and Finney-inspired “moral government” theology over the years. A version of open theism has been a part of that theology for years. Mostly the people at YWAM are really nice in a spiritual hothouse kind of way; good place to find a spouse too; pity about the rubbish theology.

]]> By: Matt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/those-know-nothing-evangelicals#comment-922 Matt Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=109#comment-922 Paul - Thanks for the clarity. Much appreciated. Paul - Thanks for the clarity. Much appreciated.

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