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	<title>Comments on: Theology, Depression and the Unsolvable Problem of the Right Church</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-479308</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a spirit-filled born again Christian I battle constantly with depression and being a Christian. After reading this article and the responses, I would like to share a little which I hope is of encouragement.
I am currently doing Theological Studies and know God&#039;s word, the Bible, quite well. I know that despite how I feel, God loves me and I am precious in His sight. I also know that if it wasn&#039;t for God, I would not be here because it has been Him that has kept me going, even in my darkest times.
I don&#039;t understand why I suffer from depression, including suicidal, but I know that I need to trust God to get me through. My involvement with my local church has been like a physical sign of God&#039;s love, as the friends that I have there love me and accept me as I am and try to help as much as they are able.
As Christians, we need to find a church in which to Fellowship as we are instructed to be Jesus. Which church is best? The one where the people live out their faith and love for God through their ministry to all who enter the doors of that church. Also a church who will not treat a depressed person like a leper as I know some churches do. 
Above all else, learn to love and accept yourself as God loves and accepts you as you are. (this is as much for me as anyone!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a spirit-filled born again Christian I battle constantly with depression and being a Christian. After reading this article and the responses, I would like to share a little which I hope is of encouragement.<br />
I am currently doing Theological Studies and know God&#8217;s word, the Bible, quite well. I know that despite how I feel, God loves me and I am precious in His sight. I also know that if it wasn&#8217;t for God, I would not be here because it has been Him that has kept me going, even in my darkest times.<br />
I don&#8217;t understand why I suffer from depression, including suicidal, but I know that I need to trust God to get me through. My involvement with my local church has been like a physical sign of God&#8217;s love, as the friends that I have there love me and accept me as I am and try to help as much as they are able.<br />
As Christians, we need to find a church in which to Fellowship as we are instructed to be Jesus. Which church is best? The one where the people live out their faith and love for God through their ministry to all who enter the doors of that church. Also a church who will not treat a depressed person like a leper as I know some churches do.<br />
Above all else, learn to love and accept yourself as God loves and accepts you as you are. (this is as much for me as anyone!)</p>
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		<title>By: Joelyn</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-456274</link>
		<dc:creator>Joelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-456274</guid>
		<description>This is probably the first comforting thing I have read about in a long time to alleviate my fears and feelings of hopelessness about not being in the church of Christ anymore. 

I have longings to be in it, but I have experienced so much manipulation and emotional blackmailing from the elders and my ex-husband who used church doctrine to put me into submission until I finally got a restraining order put against him. He still goes to that church of Christ, spreading awful stories about me, making me look like the &quot;bad guy.&quot; He thinks that just because he is in the church, he can do all sorts of sinful and evil things outside church life and still be in God&#039;s mercy for salvation. 

My low thoughts lie in these issues, mainly. Outside of religion, I have a wonderful independent life with a bubbling career and wonderful children I have been blessed with. But my religious state has put me in a situation where I feel that I am condemned to eternal damnation, no matter how good I am, and no matter where I go to worship GOD, because these &quot;bandaid&quot; churches only last for so long. 

What is a person like me to do, really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably the first comforting thing I have read about in a long time to alleviate my fears and feelings of hopelessness about not being in the church of Christ anymore. </p>
<p>I have longings to be in it, but I have experienced so much manipulation and emotional blackmailing from the elders and my ex-husband who used church doctrine to put me into submission until I finally got a restraining order put against him. He still goes to that church of Christ, spreading awful stories about me, making me look like the &#8220;bad guy.&#8221; He thinks that just because he is in the church, he can do all sorts of sinful and evil things outside church life and still be in God&#8217;s mercy for salvation. </p>
<p>My low thoughts lie in these issues, mainly. Outside of religion, I have a wonderful independent life with a bubbling career and wonderful children I have been blessed with. But my religious state has put me in a situation where I feel that I am condemned to eternal damnation, no matter how good I am, and no matter where I go to worship GOD, because these &#8220;bandaid&#8221; churches only last for so long. </p>
<p>What is a person like me to do, really?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin s.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-369262</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-369262</guid>
		<description>Very well put.  Someone once said if you did find the perfect church here on earth that you would ruin it as soon as you stepped through the door.  

Bottom line, we need to change ourselves looking only to Jesus and no other for our example.  As long as the Pastor preaches the truth from the Bible and the whole Bible at that we should be able to tough out the non-essentials.  But in the end it is all about what we personally did when it came to Jesus and His lordship of our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well put.  Someone once said if you did find the perfect church here on earth that you would ruin it as soon as you stepped through the door.  </p>
<p>Bottom line, we need to change ourselves looking only to Jesus and no other for our example.  As long as the Pastor preaches the truth from the Bible and the whole Bible at that we should be able to tough out the non-essentials.  But in the end it is all about what we personally did when it came to Jesus and His lordship of our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: matt stephens</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-368937</link>
		<dc:creator>matt stephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 03:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-368937</guid>
		<description>I realize i&#039;m a bit late to the conversation, but nonetheless, it was very timely for me (just subscribed to your blog today)... particularly the part (!) about depression and &quot;figuring things out&quot;.  I actually just blogged about this a couple weeks ago after having somewhat of a theology-induced crash at the end of last semester (I&#039;m an MDiv student at TEDS).  Anyway, you&#039;re definitely on to something... you&#039;re finger&#039;s on &lt;em&gt;me&lt;/em&gt; anyhow, and it&#039;s good to know someone &#039;gets it&#039;.  Stop over sometime and chat.

Shalom,

matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize i&#8217;m a bit late to the conversation, but nonetheless, it was very timely for me (just subscribed to your blog today)&#8230; particularly the part (!) about depression and &#8220;figuring things out&#8221;.  I actually just blogged about this a couple weeks ago after having somewhat of a theology-induced crash at the end of last semester (I&#8217;m an MDiv student at TEDS).  Anyway, you&#8217;re definitely on to something&#8230; you&#8217;re finger&#8217;s on <em>me</em> anyhow, and it&#8217;s good to know someone &#8216;gets it&#8217;.  Stop over sometime and chat.</p>
<p>Shalom,</p>
<p>matt</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-368427</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-368427</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But you talk to many Christians and they’ll deny that psychology even is a third option. It’s either white or black, God or devil; and part of the reason some Christians walk around undiagnosed is ’cause their psychosis resembles God just enough. Or resembles someone’s idea of God, anyway...&lt;/i&gt; -- K W Leslie

We had a spectacular example of that out here in SoCal some 15-20 years ago.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollen_Stewart&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Remember the guy in the rainbow fright wig who&#039;d hold up this &quot;John 3:16&quot; sign for the media cameras?&lt;/a&gt;  He was the darling of Christian Media for his &quot;Witnessing (TM)&quot;, inspiration for Steve Taylor&#039;s &quot;Bannerman&quot;, spoofed in crowd scenes from &lt;i&gt;Saturday Night Live&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;The Simpsons&lt;/i&gt;, and given &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pacifier.com/~dkossy/rainbow.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;his own entry on the &lt;i&gt;Kooks Museum&lt;/i&gt; website&lt;/a&gt;.  At first, an eccentric turned semi-accidental celebrity.

His career came to an end in 1992, when after planting smoke and stink bombs at various places he ended up the perp in a God-Told-Me-To attempted-kidnapping-turned-hostage-situation on an upper floor of what was then the Los Angeles Airport Hyatt.  (Just this morning, I drove by that very hotel, dropping someone off at the airport.)

Took a few hours before the LAPD SWAT team dug him out of there, with the surrealistic touches of demands to Witness The End Is Nigh on broadcast media and Bible verses sprayed on bedsheets and hung out the windows of the room where he was holding a hotel maid hostage.

After his bust and conviction, there was a lot of hot air on Christian media about &quot;PERSECUTION!!!&quot;  I asked then and still ask now how or why nobody noticed this guy going round the bend until he finally snapped completely.  He had to have had associates -- friends, pastor, brothers-in-Christ -- who should have noticed him going from eccentric to crazy.  Was it that as he was losing it, he said all the right Christianese things?  Quoted the right chapters and verses?  Put enough God-talk into his craziness that everybody mistook his crazy-talk for the Holy Spirit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But you talk to many Christians and they’ll deny that psychology even is a third option. It’s either white or black, God or devil; and part of the reason some Christians walk around undiagnosed is ’cause their psychosis resembles God just enough. Or resembles someone’s idea of God, anyway&#8230;</i> &#8212; K W Leslie</p>
<p>We had a spectacular example of that out here in SoCal some 15-20 years ago.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollen_Stewart" rel="nofollow">Remember the guy in the rainbow fright wig who&#8217;d hold up this &#8220;John 3:16&#8243; sign for the media cameras?</a>  He was the darling of Christian Media for his &#8220;Witnessing (TM)&#8221;, inspiration for Steve Taylor&#8217;s &#8220;Bannerman&#8221;, spoofed in crowd scenes from <i>Saturday Night Live</i> to <i>The Simpsons</i>, and given <a href="http://www.pacifier.com/~dkossy/rainbow.html" rel="nofollow">his own entry on the <i>Kooks Museum</i> website</a>.  At first, an eccentric turned semi-accidental celebrity.</p>
<p>His career came to an end in 1992, when after planting smoke and stink bombs at various places he ended up the perp in a God-Told-Me-To attempted-kidnapping-turned-hostage-situation on an upper floor of what was then the Los Angeles Airport Hyatt.  (Just this morning, I drove by that very hotel, dropping someone off at the airport.)</p>
<p>Took a few hours before the LAPD SWAT team dug him out of there, with the surrealistic touches of demands to Witness The End Is Nigh on broadcast media and Bible verses sprayed on bedsheets and hung out the windows of the room where he was holding a hotel maid hostage.</p>
<p>After his bust and conviction, there was a lot of hot air on Christian media about &#8220;PERSECUTION!!!&#8221;  I asked then and still ask now how or why nobody noticed this guy going round the bend until he finally snapped completely.  He had to have had associates &#8212; friends, pastor, brothers-in-Christ &#8212; who should have noticed him going from eccentric to crazy.  Was it that as he was losing it, he said all the right Christianese things?  Quoted the right chapters and verses?  Put enough God-talk into his craziness that everybody mistook his crazy-talk for the Holy Spirit?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-367791</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-367791</guid>
		<description>iMonk, I want to thank you for posting this.  It illuminates to me some personal discouragement I go through as a pastor.

Before I was the lead pastor, I saw the gap between where the church is and where it should be, but it didn&#039;t bother me that much.  But when I became the pastor that changed.  Partly because I began to think about what church could be like in all its beauty, truth and justice.  But also because I assumed I had a large part of closing that gap.  It IS frustrating to see the promised land, but, because of your own weaknesses as a leader, not be able to bring God&#039;s people to that land.

I still know I do have a lot of responsibility in this regard.  But your post helped me to see and enjoy where we are. 

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>iMonk, I want to thank you for posting this.  It illuminates to me some personal discouragement I go through as a pastor.</p>
<p>Before I was the lead pastor, I saw the gap between where the church is and where it should be, but it didn&#8217;t bother me that much.  But when I became the pastor that changed.  Partly because I began to think about what church could be like in all its beauty, truth and justice.  But also because I assumed I had a large part of closing that gap.  It IS frustrating to see the promised land, but, because of your own weaknesses as a leader, not be able to bring God&#8217;s people to that land.</p>
<p>I still know I do have a lot of responsibility in this regard.  But your post helped me to see and enjoy where we are. </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: J. Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-367506</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 05:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-367506</guid>
		<description>If you want the right answer, you have to ask the right question: is anything important in a church other than whether it teaches what Christ taught?  

 If I want a place to pursue my passion for justice, maybe I&#039;ll be Episcopalian or Catholic, depending on my politics. If I want a better life, Rick Warren or Joel Osteen will tell me what I need to do. If I&#039;m looking for aesthetics, I can find high church beauty (orthodox) and more plebian forms (megachurch). If you want a church with no &quot;problems&quot; then try Unitarianism. 

I appreciated many of these things, and dabbled in these churches (except Unitarianism), but I kept coming back to doctrine. I enjoyed evangelical churches but could not get past their attempts to domesticate Christ&#039;s mysterious words: &quot;This is my body&quot; (really? yes!) and &quot;go and baptize&quot; (why, what does it do? Jesus commanded it and says it saves!) Catholics deny Christ&#039;s assurances of salvation, which I could not survive without, and (frighteningly) make my efforts matter to my fate. I could understand Orthodox about as well as I can Buddhism. 

Ultimately, because of the question I was asking, what church teaches what Christ taught, I wound up where I last expected to: the place I had been baptized and confirmed: the LCMS. Of all the things I&#039;m thankful for about the LCMS, the most important is that it taught me to ask the right question. 

I began to see political issues as not very important to the realm of the church, gave up trying to figure out single predestination and the other Biblical paradoxes, grew to appreciate the single-minded focus on pure doctrine, and found beauty in the theology of the cross. Confessional Lutherans aren&#039;t much fun sometimes, but I&#039;m not at church because I like to socialize with the people there. I&#039;m there because I&#039;ll hear Christ&#039;s assurance of his love and receive his sacraments. 

Nothing seems important enough to get me too down after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want the right answer, you have to ask the right question: is anything important in a church other than whether it teaches what Christ taught?  </p>
<p> If I want a place to pursue my passion for justice, maybe I&#8217;ll be Episcopalian or Catholic, depending on my politics. If I want a better life, Rick Warren or Joel Osteen will tell me what I need to do. If I&#8217;m looking for aesthetics, I can find high church beauty (orthodox) and more plebian forms (megachurch). If you want a church with no &#8220;problems&#8221; then try Unitarianism. </p>
<p>I appreciated many of these things, and dabbled in these churches (except Unitarianism), but I kept coming back to doctrine. I enjoyed evangelical churches but could not get past their attempts to domesticate Christ&#8217;s mysterious words: &#8220;This is my body&#8221; (really? yes!) and &#8220;go and baptize&#8221; (why, what does it do? Jesus commanded it and says it saves!) Catholics deny Christ&#8217;s assurances of salvation, which I could not survive without, and (frighteningly) make my efforts matter to my fate. I could understand Orthodox about as well as I can Buddhism. </p>
<p>Ultimately, because of the question I was asking, what church teaches what Christ taught, I wound up where I last expected to: the place I had been baptized and confirmed: the LCMS. Of all the things I&#8217;m thankful for about the LCMS, the most important is that it taught me to ask the right question. </p>
<p>I began to see political issues as not very important to the realm of the church, gave up trying to figure out single predestination and the other Biblical paradoxes, grew to appreciate the single-minded focus on pure doctrine, and found beauty in the theology of the cross. Confessional Lutherans aren&#8217;t much fun sometimes, but I&#8217;m not at church because I like to socialize with the people there. I&#8217;m there because I&#8217;ll hear Christ&#8217;s assurance of his love and receive his sacraments. </p>
<p>Nothing seems important enough to get me too down after that.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-367323</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-367323</guid>
		<description>iMonk, I wanted to let you know that I read this article and had a good chuckle, a good think, and a good eye-roll.  In other words, well done.

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>iMonk, I wanted to let you know that I read this article and had a good chuckle, a good think, and a good eye-roll.  In other words, well done.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: DT</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-367014</link>
		<dc:creator>DT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-367014</guid>
		<description>iMonk, you may not be a liscensed counselor, but you&#039;ve done a lot for my sanity, through this post and many others. Keep writing, and as a previous commenter said, get this published. The wider Christian subculture needs to be challenged with these thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>iMonk, you may not be a liscensed counselor, but you&#8217;ve done a lot for my sanity, through this post and many others. Keep writing, and as a previous commenter said, get this published. The wider Christian subculture needs to be challenged with these thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/theology-depression-and-the-unsolvable-problem-of-the-right-church/comment-page-1#comment-366941</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2756#comment-366941</guid>
		<description>Michael,
&quot;If you believe God is playing a game with you, hiding the truth and holding out the carrot of really knowing Jesus if you choose the right door, please don’t go further down that road. God is good. Jesus love you. All that God has for you is there in Jesus, available to all who trust in Jesus alone by faith.&quot;
I really needed to hear that.

Thank you for this, and all the time you&#039;ve put into discussing similar issues; this is truly helpful to me, as a person who has been tormented over the last few years by the &quot;truth claims&quot; of the RCC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
&#8220;If you believe God is playing a game with you, hiding the truth and holding out the carrot of really knowing Jesus if you choose the right door, please don’t go further down that road. God is good. Jesus love you. All that God has for you is there in Jesus, available to all who trust in Jesus alone by faith.&#8221;<br />
I really needed to hear that.</p>
<p>Thank you for this, and all the time you&#8217;ve put into discussing similar issues; this is truly helpful to me, as a person who has been tormented over the last few years by the &#8220;truth claims&#8221; of the RCC.</p>
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