Comments on: The Wrong Song For the People of God http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:29:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Henri Stryd http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-121413 Henri Stryd Tue, 07 Aug 2007 05:09:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-121413 It was not overly interesting to go through this whole stack of reactions although is is, of course, the expression of the right of free speech. So, here are two remarks of mine just for the taking: 1. Has it occurred to see this poem as a prayer? A simple prayer of somebody who is deeply in love with her country and ask God to spread his love, care and protection over it. 2. Why I write this? It looks like the following has nothing to do with the foregoing but read and think quietly: As a Dutch Canadian I visited a family of Dutch immigrants. One of them did not have a good word to say about America: "they are nothing but murderers". "Killing is the only thing they know", and so on and on. Finally I got up and told him: "I know that we were liberated by the Canadians, but that was only possible because of Amarican rifles, American trucks, Amarican jeeps, American tanks, American ships, American planes and American lives. Because don't you forget (and this to a very strick religious person!): They died so you could live". This obvious referral to Christ shut him up! Therefore, no matter how this poem is disected for hidden meanings and values, I, as a survivor of the war, feel this poem more as a prayer than as a national anthem, despite it's beauty. It was not overly interesting to go through this whole stack of reactions although is is, of course, the expression of the right of free speech.
So, here are two remarks of mine just for the taking:
1. Has it occurred to see this poem as a prayer?
A simple prayer of somebody who is deeply in love with her country and ask God to spread his love, care and protection over it.
2. Why I write this?
It looks like the following has nothing to do with the foregoing but read and think quietly:
As a Dutch Canadian I visited a family of Dutch immigrants. One of them did not have a good word to say about America: “they are nothing but murderers”. “Killing is the only thing they know”, and so on and on.
Finally I got up and told him: “I know that we were liberated by the Canadians, but that was only possible because of Amarican rifles, American trucks, Amarican jeeps, American tanks, American ships, American planes and American lives.
Because don’t you forget (and this to a very strick religious person!): They died so you could live”.
This obvious referral to Christ shut him up!
Therefore, no matter how this poem is disected for hidden meanings and values, I, as a survivor of the war, feel this poem more as a prayer than as a national anthem, despite it’s beauty.

]]> By: J http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-94918 J Fri, 01 Jun 2007 07:14:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-94918 Enjoyed the article. I have to ask Americans: What is the point of a flag in your church? As an outsider - I have a hard time seeing these things displayed, (or sung) out of humility, love, and acceptance. "Thank you God, that we're so much richer, better, freer, and kill better than the unwashed masses" - doesn't really sound like anything Jesus taught. If we're just thanking God for what we have, why not hang some Mercedes symbols in the lobby? THEN - invite everybody to bring their gold jewelery in, melt it down, and form it into some object - so we can look on it to see how blessed we are! I heard a calf works well...... Enjoyed the article.

I have to ask Americans:

What is the point of a flag in your church?

As an outsider – I have a hard time seeing these things displayed, (or sung) out of humility, love, and acceptance.

“Thank you God, that we’re so much richer, better, freer, and kill better than the unwashed masses” – doesn’t really sound like anything Jesus taught.

If we’re just thanking God for what we have, why not hang some Mercedes symbols in the lobby?

THEN – invite everybody to bring their gold jewelery in, melt it down, and form it into some object – so we can look on it to see how blessed we are!

I heard a calf works well……

]]> By: Tom http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-94291 Tom Wed, 30 May 2007 12:38:42 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-94291 What a country! Our national anthem was penned by a Roman Catholic. The Battle Hymn of the Republic used Biblical metaphors with all the grace and cunning of a literate Unitarian to cast the Union army as a fresh Incarnation. The Pledge of Allegiance was created by a Baptist socialist pastor -- although his socialist so overwhelmed his Baptist that he lost his pastorate. It's a prayer to The State, unified by force, a shotgun wedding of unwilling but subjugated partners. Finally, Ms. Bates lived for many years in what those folks called a "Cambridge marriage" -- with a female partner. I guess I'm one of those post-mil theocrats, but I don't see the future as bright for centralized empires. Given human depravity, God's Kingdom is best served by a decentralized civil order that places most of the responsibilities on local entities (fathers, elders, jurors, magistrates). When I pray "for kings, and those in authority," I start with the most important governing officials, local jurors, and work my way down to the least important magistrate, the prisoner of the White House, whose handlers permit him very little wiggle room. May he use what little liberty he has for the glory of God. What a country!

Our national anthem was penned by a Roman Catholic. The Battle Hymn of the Republic used Biblical metaphors with all the grace and cunning of a literate Unitarian to cast the Union army as a fresh Incarnation.

The Pledge of Allegiance was created by a Baptist socialist pastor — although his socialist so overwhelmed his Baptist that he lost his pastorate. It’s a prayer to The State, unified by force, a shotgun wedding of unwilling but subjugated partners.

Finally, Ms. Bates lived for many years in what those folks called a “Cambridge marriage” — with a female partner.

I guess I’m one of those post-mil theocrats, but I don’t see the future as bright for centralized empires. Given human depravity, God’s Kingdom is best served by a decentralized civil order that places most of the responsibilities on local entities (fathers, elders, jurors, magistrates). When I pray “for kings, and those in authority,” I start with the most important governing officials, local jurors, and work my way down to the least important magistrate, the prisoner of the White House, whose handlers permit him very little wiggle room. May he use what little liberty he has for the glory of God.

]]> By: K.W. Leslie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-94178 K.W. Leslie Wed, 30 May 2007 03:20:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-94178 DanL: Marshall and Manuel's "Light and the Glory" is <i>not</i> American history in its true context. The authors have taken the pious public statements of the Founders and extrapolate from them a degree of piety that the colonists rarely or never demonstrated in their actions. The book takes the words of hypocrites, assumes they were humble, and claims this is the foundation of America. The authors believe God predestined the U.S. to be a great nation and achieve His will; I believe the U.S., more often than not, is an example of God using all things for the good of those who love Him. I love the ideals expressed by the founders of my country, but I know the difference between the ideals and the reality. (I love the right of <i>habeas corpus</i>, for example; I just wish we practiced it.) I believe these ideals will never be achieved without the work of the Holy Spirit. The U.S. is a work in progress. To glorify it -- just like we might glorify a man -- now, before God's work is finished, seems premature. Our churches don't have hymns that glorify the Church; nor should we. As far as I know we don't have hymns that glorify saints. Yet our churches have, and sing, national hymns. What else is this but idolatry? DanL: Marshall and Manuel’s “Light and the Glory” is not American history in its true context. The authors have taken the pious public statements of the Founders and extrapolate from them a degree of piety that the colonists rarely or never demonstrated in their actions. The book takes the words of hypocrites, assumes they were humble, and claims this is the foundation of America. The authors believe God predestined the U.S. to be a great nation and achieve His will; I believe the U.S., more often than not, is an example of God using all things for the good of those who love Him.

I love the ideals expressed by the founders of my country, but I know the difference between the ideals and the reality. (I love the right of habeas corpus, for example; I just wish we practiced it.) I believe these ideals will never be achieved without the work of the Holy Spirit. The U.S. is a work in progress. To glorify it — just like we might glorify a man — now, before God’s work is finished, seems premature.

Our churches don’t have hymns that glorify the Church; nor should we. As far as I know we don’t have hymns that glorify saints. Yet our churches have, and sing, national hymns. What else is this but idolatry?

]]> By: Debra http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93958 Debra Tue, 29 May 2007 10:21:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93958 This post makes some good points. I don't believe a recognition and thankfulness for our country should be entirely absent from worship, anymore than recognition and thankfulness for any other thing with which we have been blessed. But I do recognize the dangers of mixing our expression of allegiance to our country with our expressions of allegiance to Christ, in worship. I would point out, though, that the phrase "undimmed by human tears" doesn't necessarily mean that no human tears are present or involved in the making of this nation or in the pursuit of the 'patriot dream' of freedom. I have always taken that line to mean that plenty of human tears & suffering have been involved with the history of our country but that America and the dream of freedom have not been dimmed by them, or the suffering and sacrifice they represent. Some might argue about whether or not this is the case, but I don't think it can be clearly understood to mean that no human suffering has been involved in our history or that future glory will come about without human tears. This post makes some good points. I don’t believe a recognition and thankfulness for our country should be entirely absent from worship, anymore than recognition and thankfulness for any other thing with which we have been blessed. But I do recognize the dangers of mixing our expression of allegiance to our country with our expressions of allegiance to Christ, in worship.

I would point out, though, that the phrase “undimmed by human tears” doesn’t necessarily mean that no human tears are present or involved in the making of this nation or in the pursuit of the ‘patriot dream’ of freedom. I have always taken that line to mean that plenty of human tears & suffering have been involved with the history of our country but that America and the dream of freedom have not been dimmed by them, or the suffering and sacrifice they represent. Some might argue about whether or not this is the case, but I don’t think it can be clearly understood to mean that no human suffering has been involved in our history or that future glory will come about without human tears.

]]> By: Wolf Paul http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93863 Wolf Paul Tue, 29 May 2007 05:45:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93863 DanL: I believe the point of Michael's essay is not to criticize the song/poem by Katherine Bastes nor to say that it is not worthy of Christians in 2007, but to question its appropriateness in a worship setting (and yes, I think that the focus of the church's Sunday morning meeting should be worship). The Church as the Body of Christ is a global, trans-national organism -- is that the proper context for the expression of patriotic sentiment? When we meet as the Church, do we meet as Christians who also happen to be Americans, Austrians, Canadians, Chinese, etc., and anyone of any nationality will feel right at home as long as they are also Christians; or do we meet as Americans who also happen to be Christians, and people of other nationalities will just have to put up with us as we sing the praises of our country? And as someone has pointed out not even all Americans will be able to identify with the romanticized view of the nations's founding embodied in this particular song. TeresaH: That, btw, is the difference between "America the Beautiful" and the Psalms: the Psalms address these inanimate objects to call them to give praise to God or to ask rhetorical questions; while "America the Beautiful" addresses the country singing its praises. It is that aspect which legitimately raises the question of idolatry. Of course the question has to be answered on a case-by-case basis; but there's something to be said for avoiding in a worship context anything that even raises this question. I agree that there are plenty of other things which tempt us to idolatry; the difference is that we don't sing songs to these things in Church -- at least not in any churches I have attended in the US or elsewhere. Carl: I believe that if you offered a prayer to God in the name of Jesus at the VFW and American Legion, then you were a true witness and did nothing wrong. As for remembering those who died for their country: Again, I believe the important thing is to remember that the Body of Christ is not an American body. In the church I attended last year the pastor frequently remembered the victims of the Iraq war in the pastoral prayer: but he didn't just remember the fallen American soldiers but those of other nationalities, including Iraquis who may have died for an absolutely misguided cause. Of course we may remember some with pride and others with sadness, and in the case of a contemporary war it becomes as much a time of praying for the survivors; but as long as on Memorial Day we remember both the dead of the Union and of the Confederacy, the dead of on all sides of the World Wars, making it an occasion to pray that God would grant wisdom and humility to the leaders of the world that they would avoid armed conflicts I think it is entirely appropriate. Rambled enough, time to go to work. DanL:

I believe the point of Michael’s essay is not to criticize the song/poem by Katherine Bastes nor to say that it is not worthy of Christians in 2007, but to question its appropriateness in a worship setting (and yes, I think that the focus of the church’s Sunday morning meeting should be worship).

The Church as the Body of Christ is a global, trans-national organism — is that the proper context for the expression of patriotic sentiment?

When we meet as the Church, do we meet as Christians who also happen to be Americans, Austrians, Canadians, Chinese, etc., and anyone of any nationality will feel right at home as long as they are also Christians; or do we meet as Americans who also happen to be Christians, and people of other nationalities will just have to put up with us as we sing the praises of our country?

And as someone has pointed out not even all Americans will be able to identify with the romanticized view of the nations’s founding embodied in this particular song.

TeresaH:

That, btw, is the difference between “America the Beautiful” and the Psalms: the Psalms address these inanimate objects to call them to give praise to God or to ask rhetorical questions; while “America the Beautiful” addresses the country singing its praises. It is that aspect which legitimately raises the question of idolatry. Of course the question has to be answered on a case-by-case basis; but there’s something to be said for avoiding in a worship context anything that even raises this question.

I agree that there are plenty of other things which tempt us to idolatry; the difference is that we don’t sing songs to these things in Church — at least not in any churches I have attended in the US or elsewhere.

Carl:

I believe that if you offered a prayer to God in the name of Jesus at the VFW and American Legion, then you were a true witness and did nothing wrong.

As for remembering those who died for their country: Again, I believe the important thing is to remember that the Body of Christ is not an American body. In the church I attended last year the pastor frequently remembered the victims of the Iraq war in the pastoral prayer: but he didn’t just remember the fallen American soldiers but those of other nationalities, including Iraquis who may have died for an absolutely misguided cause. Of course we may remember some with pride and others with sadness, and in the case of a contemporary war it becomes as much a time of praying for the survivors; but as long as on Memorial Day we remember both the dead of the Union and of the Confederacy, the dead of on all sides of the World Wars, making it an occasion to pray that God would grant wisdom and humility to the leaders of the world that they would avoid armed conflicts I think it is entirely appropriate.

Rambled enough, time to go to work.

]]> By: Carl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93844 Carl Tue, 29 May 2007 03:41:37 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93844 Maybe I'm a bit of a coward, but I go with the halfway approach that is suggested by o.h.. We did sing one "America" song on Sunday, "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". We did at the very beginning, before our call to worship to subtly make the point that no this is not worship. The flags remained in the entryway where I put them a couple of years ago and no one has ever said anything. (That's a whole other issue). We certainly do in America too often confuse God and country. Just take a look at what happened to Greg Boyd when he preached on the myth of Christian nation. How do we pay respect to our country without idolizing it? And as someone pointed out, should we be thankful for those who gave their lives and now suffer a Christless eternity? Should I have refused the invitation by the local VFW and American Legion to participate in their Memorial Day ceremony today and not offered a prayer? And perhaps the bigger problem that iMonk has drawn our attention to is how little attention we pay to the lyrics we sing. One of my teachers once said that 85% of a congregations's theology comes from their music (where that figure came from is beyond me, but there is no doubt our theology is shaped by our hymnology and praise songology). Thanks for another thought-provoking essay. Maybe I’m a bit of a coward, but I go with the halfway approach that is suggested by o.h.. We did sing one “America” song on Sunday, “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”. We did at the very beginning, before our call to worship to subtly make the point that no this is not worship. The flags remained in the entryway where I put them a couple of years ago and no one has ever said anything. (That’s a whole other issue).
We certainly do in America too often confuse God and country. Just take a look at what happened to Greg Boyd when he preached on the myth of Christian nation. How do we pay respect to our country without idolizing it? And as someone pointed out, should we be thankful for those who gave their lives and now suffer a Christless eternity? Should I have refused the invitation by the local VFW and American Legion to participate in their Memorial Day ceremony today and not offered a prayer?
And perhaps the bigger problem that iMonk has drawn our attention to is how little attention we pay to the lyrics we sing. One of my teachers once said that 85% of a congregations’s theology comes from their music (where that figure came from is beyond me, but there is no doubt our theology is shaped by our hymnology and praise songology).
Thanks for another thought-provoking essay.

]]> By: DanL http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93840 DanL Tue, 29 May 2007 02:45:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93840 One_SalientOversight, some excellent observations. The evangelical protestant church in America often causes me to cringe as well! And what exactly should be happening inside churches on Sunday (or any gathering time) is and will be an ongoing debate. The use of biblical phrases to make my point is a blatant attempt at emotional prejudice, and I apologize. Please forgive me. To understand why a church would have a patriotic or nationalistic song in their hymnbook, or even dare and sing one as a congregation, is to know American history in its true context. I won't go into detail but encourage you to read "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall and David Manuel. Jesus said in John 15:13,"Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend".I fail to see that this applies only to believers.So to honor/recognize this sacrifice is noteworthy in our Lord's own words. To honor the fallen is not to honor war or their "cause". I think the "confusion" of the American church and the American nation is a result of the unique foundation and beginning of America. No other country anywhere has tried to honor God in all its original decisions save Israel. America today is often far from what I believe our forefathers intended, and like all nations will be judged one day. With all of america's faults, it is still the primary destination of all who want a better chance in this world.I believe that this is a result of God blessing this country. This Grace and Blessing is not exclusive to only America, yet because of this rich blessing, America has an obligation to use this to help the rest of the needy in the world today. Agreed that many Christians get confused where Gods' gospel ends and American policy begins(or vice versa). The church has many serious "confusions" today. Issues such as eternal security, or even what is required for salvation, or the importance of the pursuit of holiness, or even how we should live as citizens within nations. To claim that the poem of Katherine Bates, penned in 1893, is a song not worthy of American christians in 2007, is to fail to recognize the heart of the author or the deeply Christian roots of this country. I agree much needs to be corrected within the confines of American Evangelical Protestentism, but criticizing a wonderful song such as this one would be a pitiful place to start. You can find history of the song and of K. Lee Bates easily with a google search.Please do so, you may be encouraged by the faithfulness of a believer from an era past from ours. Our beacon is Christ, and may we all let our light shine for Him. Thank you. One_SalientOversight,
some excellent observations.
The evangelical protestant church in America often
causes me to cringe as well!
And what exactly should be happening inside churches on Sunday (or any gathering time) is and will be an ongoing debate.
The use of biblical phrases to make my point is a blatant attempt at emotional prejudice, and I apologize. Please forgive me.
To understand why a church would have a patriotic or nationalistic song in their hymnbook, or even dare and sing one as a congregation, is to know American history in its true context.
I won’t go into detail but encourage you to read
“The Light and the Glory” by Peter Marshall and
David Manuel.
Jesus said in John 15:13,”Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for a friend”.I fail to see that this applies only to believers.So to honor/recognize this sacrifice is noteworthy in our Lord’s own words.
To honor the fallen is not to honor war or their “cause”.
I think the “confusion” of the American church and the American nation is a result of the unique foundation and beginning of America. No other country anywhere has tried to honor God in all its original decisions save Israel.
America today is often far from what I believe our forefathers intended, and like all nations will be judged one day.
With all of america’s faults, it is still the primary destination of all who want a better chance in this world.I believe that this is a result of God blessing this country.
This Grace and Blessing is not exclusive to only America, yet because of this rich blessing, America has an obligation to use this to help the rest of the needy in the world today.
Agreed that many Christians get confused where Gods’ gospel ends and American policy begins(or vice versa).
The church has many serious “confusions” today.
Issues such as eternal security, or even what is required for salvation, or the importance of the pursuit of holiness, or even how we should live as citizens within nations.
To claim that the poem of Katherine Bates, penned in 1893, is a song not worthy of American christians in 2007, is to fail to recognize the heart of the author or the deeply Christian roots of this country. I agree much needs to be corrected within the confines of American Evangelical Protestentism, but criticizing a wonderful song such as this one would be a pitiful place to start.
You can find history of the song and of K. Lee Bates easily with a google search.Please do so, you may be encouraged by the faithfulness of a believer from an era past from ours.
Our beacon is Christ, and may we all let our light shine for Him. Thank you.

]]> By: o.h. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93827 o.h. Tue, 29 May 2007 02:02:32 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93827 Our (Catholic) parish has always been careful about not including patriotic songs during worship: I don't know if this is due to our pastor's conscientiousness or the bishop's. But it's common on national holidays for our pastor and the deacon(s) to process out immediately at the end of Mass, signalling the end of the worship service, and for the choir and musicians to then launch into a patriotic song. This happened quite a lot after 9-11. It seems a little legalistic, but it actually makes for a clear demarcation between the end of worship and the congregational singing of a patriotic song. We've also gotten to hear the "Marseillaise" at the end of the recessional on a French national holiday and once after a Mass dedicating the restoration of some stained glass windows gifted from a French parish, so it's not just American nationalism appearing post-worship. Our (Catholic) parish has always been careful about not including patriotic songs during worship: I don’t know if this is due to our pastor’s conscientiousness or the bishop’s. But it’s common on national holidays for our pastor and the deacon(s) to process out immediately at the end of Mass, signalling the end of the worship service, and for the choir and musicians to then launch into a patriotic song. This happened quite a lot after 9-11. It seems a little legalistic, but it actually makes for a clear demarcation between the end of worship and the congregational singing of a patriotic song.

We’ve also gotten to hear the “Marseillaise” at the end of the recessional on a French national holiday and once after a Mass dedicating the restoration of some stained glass windows gifted from a French parish, so it’s not just American nationalism appearing post-worship.

]]> By: One_SalientOversight http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god/comment-page-1#comment-93798 One_SalientOversight Mon, 28 May 2007 23:18:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-wrong-song-for-the-people-of-god#comment-93798 DanL, As an Australian I quite often cringe at the Americanization of Evangelical Christianity. The thing is, Christianity is not and never will be American. I'm Australian. I live in Australia. I love my country. I don't have the same level of affection for yours. During the Olympics I support Australia and any team or individual competing against America. Having said all that, most Australian churches do not have Australian flags in them. Our culture is one that does not have an outward expression of patriotism. There are Christians in Australia who are busy "Australianizing" Christianity, but that is to their, and the Gospel's, detriment. As iMonk has pointed out, the church is somewhat confused about its relationship with the nation it is in. Of course we should pray for our nation, but focusing upon our nation all the time does not help. So what about Memorial Day? Should churches remember the sacrifice of American soldiers during wartime? Well, let me ask you this - what if these soldiers were not believers? Should the evangelical church celebrate the memory of those who died and went to hell? The other problem is the assumption you've given about America being a "shining light" to the nations of the world. That's phrase that Jesus used of his disciples being the light of the world. Reagan spoke of America as a light on the hill - another phrase that Jesus used to speak of his disciples. America is not a shining light to the world. It is an example of many good things, and many bad things, but it is not a glowing example of God's goodness that the world can embrace. It is Christ, the Gospel, that is the beacon in a time of darkness. DanL,

As an Australian I quite often cringe at the Americanization of Evangelical Christianity. The thing is, Christianity is not and never will be American. I’m Australian. I live in Australia. I love my country. I don’t have the same level of affection for yours. During the Olympics I support Australia and any team or individual competing against America.

Having said all that, most Australian churches do not have Australian flags in them. Our culture is one that does not have an outward expression of patriotism. There are Christians in Australia who are busy “Australianizing” Christianity, but that is to their, and the Gospel’s, detriment.

As iMonk has pointed out, the church is somewhat confused about its relationship with the nation it is in. Of course we should pray for our nation, but focusing upon our nation all the time does not help.

So what about Memorial Day? Should churches remember the sacrifice of American soldiers during wartime? Well, let me ask you this – what if these soldiers were not believers? Should the evangelical church celebrate the memory of those who died and went to hell?

The other problem is the assumption you’ve given about America being a “shining light” to the nations of the world. That’s phrase that Jesus used of his disciples being the light of the world. Reagan spoke of America as a light on the hill – another phrase that Jesus used to speak of his disciples.

America is not a shining light to the world. It is an example of many good things, and many bad things, but it is not a glowing example of God’s goodness that the world can embrace.

It is Christ, the Gospel, that is the beacon in a time of darkness.

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