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	<title>Comments on: The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-493290</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One of the Poster wrote that Church is a waste of time among many other things we do as Christians. Jesus says certain things are our reasonable service. We should gather together all the more as we see the day of His coming approaching. We need each other as brothers and sisters for encouragement. We also need accountability. It&#039;s like a job that your boss expects you to be at. It&#039;s just that this job has enternal benefits instead of a weekly salary. Although sometimes Church among other Christian duties may seem like a weight sometimes (when your flesh is tired) that&#039;s not the weight the Bible speaks of. If your hand offend you (cut if off). If your eye offend you (pluck it out). In other words, if chewing bubble gum hinders you, get rid of it. It doesn&#039;t have to be drunkeness or adultery to slow us down. It can be as simple as a hobby that takes too much time. A visit to Wal-mart everyday, (if shopping is your cup of tea) for example. Thanks for all the posts. It makes you think and reconsider things with an open mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the Poster wrote that Church is a waste of time among many other things we do as Christians. Jesus says certain things are our reasonable service. We should gather together all the more as we see the day of His coming approaching. We need each other as brothers and sisters for encouragement. We also need accountability. It&#8217;s like a job that your boss expects you to be at. It&#8217;s just that this job has enternal benefits instead of a weekly salary. Although sometimes Church among other Christian duties may seem like a weight sometimes (when your flesh is tired) that&#8217;s not the weight the Bible speaks of. If your hand offend you (cut if off). If your eye offend you (pluck it out). In other words, if chewing bubble gum hinders you, get rid of it. It doesn&#8217;t have to be drunkeness or adultery to slow us down. It can be as simple as a hobby that takes too much time. A visit to Wal-mart everyday, (if shopping is your cup of tea) for example. Thanks for all the posts. It makes you think and reconsider things with an open mind.</p>
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		<title>By: K.W. Leslie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-492692</link>
		<dc:creator>K.W. Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-492692</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been playing with this verse for the past month, ever since the camp where I work made it the summer&#039;s theme verse. (Though I haven&#039;t focused much on the difference between sin and weight; I&#039;m still trying to get my coworkers to recognize that &quot;cloud of witnesses&quot; does not refer to a heavenly cloudbank where dead saints look down upon us, but fellow runners kicking up dust on the track, along with Jesus, the &lt;i&gt;starter&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;completer&lt;/i&gt; of the race of faith.)

I didn&#039;t catch the difference between sin and weight mainly because I tend to think of being distracted by &quot;weight,&quot; as you define it, &lt;i&gt;as&lt;/i&gt; sin. When we major in the minors, and focus on our programs rather than Jesus and His admonition to love one another, our neighbors, and our enemies, we&#039;re putting our priorities above Him and committing idolatry, so to speak.

Ironically, those priorities could be twisted versions of the things we think are bringing us closer to Jesus. Ignoring our neighbor because we need our meditation time (instead of postponing the meditation); refusing to feed the needy Sunday morning because the service comes first; insisting on longer biblical instruction at the expense of longer prayer; regularly giving to a worthy charity rather than occasionally giving to the unworthy bum you regularly see. It&#039;s easier to follow habits than the Holy Spirit&#039;s case-by-case instructions; it&#039;s easier to act on ritual than faith. But God, even though He institutes a lot of rituals, still prefers acts of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been playing with this verse for the past month, ever since the camp where I work made it the summer&#8217;s theme verse. (Though I haven&#8217;t focused much on the difference between sin and weight; I&#8217;m still trying to get my coworkers to recognize that &#8220;cloud of witnesses&#8221; does not refer to a heavenly cloudbank where dead saints look down upon us, but fellow runners kicking up dust on the track, along with Jesus, the <i>starter</i> and <i>completer</i> of the race of faith.)</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t catch the difference between sin and weight mainly because I tend to think of being distracted by &#8220;weight,&#8221; as you define it, <i>as</i> sin. When we major in the minors, and focus on our programs rather than Jesus and His admonition to love one another, our neighbors, and our enemies, we&#8217;re putting our priorities above Him and committing idolatry, so to speak.</p>
<p>Ironically, those priorities could be twisted versions of the things we think are bringing us closer to Jesus. Ignoring our neighbor because we need our meditation time (instead of postponing the meditation); refusing to feed the needy Sunday morning because the service comes first; insisting on longer biblical instruction at the expense of longer prayer; regularly giving to a worthy charity rather than occasionally giving to the unworthy bum you regularly see. It&#8217;s easier to follow habits than the Holy Spirit&#8217;s case-by-case instructions; it&#8217;s easier to act on ritual than faith. But God, even though He institutes a lot of rituals, still prefers acts of faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Lynch</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490891</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490891</guid>
		<description>&quot;But we must also remember that this is a sheep and goats audience to whom Jesus was speaking. The goats obviously do not have a heart for God and service to His creation.&quot;

You and I agree more than we disagree, but my point is that there simply is no score we can use to measure our obedience against other than the question, &quot;am I taking Jesus at His word in this situation?&quot;

So, when you drive by somebody who needs your help, or you withhold yourself from others for your own purpose, at the VERY LEAST, to remain honest to yourself and God, you have to seek the diagnosis for it - in introspection, in prayer, and in not letting yourself off the hook prematurely. 

It&#039;s no burden at all to think yourself a sheep and discover yourself a goat - there&#039;s joy in that. You get to accept grace and see yourself with God&#039;s eyes for a moment.

Refusing to help people, refusing to turn away from yourself and towards the world of hurting folks who Jesus identified as Himself, is for a Christian a refusal of grace, and grace is what imbues human interactions with significance. 

Not being open to that is not okay for a Christian - not putting me before you is not being obedient. 

And I&#039;m saying, I don&#039;t expect a Christian to be helpful any more than I expect, as a Christian, to be more helpful than anybody else. 

But I&#039;m not going to call myself a sheep, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But we must also remember that this is a sheep and goats audience to whom Jesus was speaking. The goats obviously do not have a heart for God and service to His creation.&#8221;</p>
<p>You and I agree more than we disagree, but my point is that there simply is no score we can use to measure our obedience against other than the question, &#8220;am I taking Jesus at His word in this situation?&#8221;</p>
<p>So, when you drive by somebody who needs your help, or you withhold yourself from others for your own purpose, at the VERY LEAST, to remain honest to yourself and God, you have to seek the diagnosis for it &#8211; in introspection, in prayer, and in not letting yourself off the hook prematurely. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s no burden at all to think yourself a sheep and discover yourself a goat &#8211; there&#8217;s joy in that. You get to accept grace and see yourself with God&#8217;s eyes for a moment.</p>
<p>Refusing to help people, refusing to turn away from yourself and towards the world of hurting folks who Jesus identified as Himself, is for a Christian a refusal of grace, and grace is what imbues human interactions with significance. </p>
<p>Not being open to that is not okay for a Christian &#8211; not putting me before you is not being obedient. </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m saying, I don&#8217;t expect a Christian to be helpful any more than I expect, as a Christian, to be more helpful than anybody else. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not going to call myself a sheep, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Just for Quix</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490791</link>
		<dc:creator>Just for Quix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490791</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I find attitudes like Patrick Lynch&#039;s ungracious because they are wont to write scripture, e.g., Matthew 23:45, that doesn&#039;t even exist. Okay that&#039;s a bit tongue in cheek. *smile*

I appreciate the weight of Jesus reminding us (Matt 25:45-46) that opportunities for service to Him flood over us in the minutia and details of service to all who surround us. But we must also remember that this is a sheep and goats audience to whom Jesus was speaking. The goats obviously do not have a heart for God and service to His creation.

I think we must also remember that those who have the Spirit and trust in God have received new hearts and are in the process of maturing in that. I see RonP&#039;s position as one of pragmatic sanctification: to learn to rely and trust in God to lead one to Kingdom service and a Kingdom heart, and not to rely on pressure applied from anywhere but the conviction of the Spirit. 

As our hearts turn to Him we hear God speaking to us constantly, not just through His word, but also in the voices of all those in need. When we recognize that God has given us ears to hear, we follow. Our new heart drives our action, not the waiting for the Spirit to convict us or speak to us for each individual action. Maybe this is all Lynch meant. Yet there is a God&#039;s timeframe in _His work_ to sanctify His own. Speaking to and treating our fellow maturing Christians as goats is non-gracious. Only God gets to separate His sheep from the real goats.

We are not asked to run fast by our own ability. We are asked to have hope in the Lord who gives us strength (Isaiah 40:31). God is our shelter and God is our strength (Psalms 91). As useful as they can be, it is not my own strength; Not the strength of church community traditions; Not even the strength of a good exegetical argument; Not the strength of peer pressure from fellow Christians.

And His burden (Matt 11:30) -- which is still a burden when measured against a life of low expectations -- is ALL I&#039;m asked to carry. I don&#039;t see RonP as advocating we forsake that burden, but to grow and mature in His strength so that it becomes light. As for the attitude I see in Patrick&#039;s reply, that is not a burden I need strength to carry.

Peace and grace,
BJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I find attitudes like Patrick Lynch&#8217;s ungracious because they are wont to write scripture, e.g., <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Matthew+23%3A45" class="bibleref" title="ESV Matthew 23:45">Matthew 23:45</a>, that doesn&#8217;t even exist. Okay that&#8217;s a bit tongue in cheek. *smile*</p>
<p>I appreciate the weight of Jesus reminding us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Matt+25%3A45-46" class="bibleref" title="ESV Matt 25:45-46">Matt 25:45-46</a>) that opportunities for service to Him flood over us in the minutia and details of service to all who surround us. But we must also remember that this is a sheep and goats audience to whom Jesus was speaking. The goats obviously do not have a heart for God and service to His creation.</p>
<p>I think we must also remember that those who have the Spirit and trust in God have received new hearts and are in the process of maturing in that. I see RonP&#8217;s position as one of pragmatic sanctification: to learn to rely and trust in God to lead one to Kingdom service and a Kingdom heart, and not to rely on pressure applied from anywhere but the conviction of the Spirit. </p>
<p>As our hearts turn to Him we hear God speaking to us constantly, not just through His word, but also in the voices of all those in need. When we recognize that God has given us ears to hear, we follow. Our new heart drives our action, not the waiting for the Spirit to convict us or speak to us for each individual action. Maybe this is all Lynch meant. Yet there is a God&#8217;s timeframe in _His work_ to sanctify His own. Speaking to and treating our fellow maturing Christians as goats is non-gracious. Only God gets to separate His sheep from the real goats.</p>
<p>We are not asked to run fast by our own ability. We are asked to have hope in the Lord who gives us strength (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Isaiah+40%3A31" class="bibleref" title="ESV Isaiah 40:31">Isaiah 40:31</a>). God is our shelter and God is our strength (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Psalms+91" class="bibleref" title="ESV Psalms 91">Psalms 91</a>). As useful as they can be, it is not my own strength; Not the strength of church community traditions; Not even the strength of a good exegetical argument; Not the strength of peer pressure from fellow Christians.</p>
<p>And His burden (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Matt+11%3A30" class="bibleref" title="ESV Matt 11:30">Matt 11:30</a>) &#8212; which is still a burden when measured against a life of low expectations &#8212; is ALL I&#8217;m asked to carry. I don&#8217;t see RonP as advocating we forsake that burden, but to grow and mature in His strength so that it becomes light. As for the attitude I see in Patrick&#8217;s reply, that is not a burden I need strength to carry.</p>
<p>Peace and grace,<br />
BJ</p>
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		<title>By: Dave N.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490732</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490732</guid>
		<description>Hamartia (sin) is &quot;missing the mark&quot; which is more encompassing than someone&#039;s pet list of moral infractions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hamartia (sin) is &#8220;missing the mark&#8221; which is more encompassing than someone&#8217;s pet list of moral infractions.</p>
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		<title>By: The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1 by Internetmonk &#171; PastorMichaelWilcox&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490725</link>
		<dc:creator>The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1 by Internetmonk &#171; PastorMichaelWilcox&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490725</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted by pastormichaelwilcox under Interesting Articles Leave a Comment&#160;  Read Article    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted by pastormichaelwilcox under Interesting Articles Leave a Comment&nbsp;  Read Article    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Lofland</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490488</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Lofland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490488</guid>
		<description>My anecdotal experience is this:

&quot;Church is almost a complete wast of time.&quot;

&quot;The buildings and programs are almost a complete waste of resources.&quot;

&quot;Small groups turn into mini wastes of time and resources.&quot;

So what are we to do?

Live. Pray. Witness by our lives.

Stop wasting time and resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My anecdotal experience is this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Church is almost a complete wast of time.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The buildings and programs are almost a complete waste of resources.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Small groups turn into mini wastes of time and resources.&#8221;</p>
<p>So what are we to do?</p>
<p>Live. Pray. Witness by our lives.</p>
<p>Stop wasting time and resources.</p>
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		<title>By: The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1 : Sacredism</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490412</link>
		<dc:creator>The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1 : Sacredism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490412</guid>
		<description>[...] The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On Hebrews 12:1  June 27, 2009 at 10:01 pm [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Weight May Not Be A Sin: A Thought On <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Hebrews+12%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Hebrews 12:1">Hebrews 12:1</a>  June 27, 2009 at 10:01 pm [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wolf Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490255</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490255</guid>
		<description>I think a Scripture relevant to this topic is 1 Corinthians 6:12 (which Paul repeats in ch. 10):

&lt;i&gt;&quot;All things are lawful for me,&quot; but not all things are helpful. &quot;All things are lawful for me,&quot; but I will not be enslaved by anything.&lt;/i&gt;

I also tend to agree with Patrick Lynch: there are many things we need to do whether specifically prompted by the Holy Spirit or not.

In living with teenagers, there is nothing more discouraging than that phase they go through where they will not lift a finger in the house unless specifically told to every single time; how is this attitude (not to do anything unless specifically prompted by the Spirit) any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a Scripture relevant to this topic is <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Corinthians+6%3A12" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Corinthians 6:12">1 Corinthians 6:12</a> (which Paul repeats in ch. 10):</p>
<p><i>&#8220;All things are lawful for me,&#8221; but not all things are helpful. &#8220;All things are lawful for me,&#8221; but I will not be enslaved by anything.</i></p>
<p>I also tend to agree with Patrick Lynch: there are many things we need to do whether specifically prompted by the Holy Spirit or not.</p>
<p>In living with teenagers, there is nothing more discouraging than that phase they go through where they will not lift a finger in the house unless specifically told to every single time; how is this attitude (not to do anything unless specifically prompted by the Spirit) any different?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Lynch</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121/comment-page-1#comment-490168</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-weight-may-not-be-a-sin-a-thought-on-hebrews-121#comment-490168</guid>
		<description>&quot;But if you limit your roadside assistance to those instances in which you perceive the Spirit urging you to stop, then you can both have a life and please God even more by offering your obedience rather than a religious sacrifice.&quot;

RonP, I can&#039;t square that with this:

    &quot;&quot;He will answer them, &#039;I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.&#039;&quot;

Not to attack you personally, but the attitude you&#039;re implying is pretty disgusting: God doesn&#039;t send you &#039;the Spirit&#039; to help a motorist every so often, he gives you the EXPLICIT COMMAND to HELP EVERYBODY as you would Him. 

There&#039;s no equivocation in that. Its not legalism, its a command from the God of Love to show love for others if you have it.

I can listen to a hundred people say &quot;I don&#039;t feel like helping you&quot; and be fine with it, but this is the first time I&#039;ve heard anyone defend their disinclinations to charity with &quot;God didn&#039;t tell me to!!!&quot; 

Seriously - for any of you out there who sincerely think yourselves too busy with your walk with God to help me change a flat tire on the highway, you can go to Hell (Matthew 23:45).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But if you limit your roadside assistance to those instances in which you perceive the Spirit urging you to stop, then you can both have a life and please God even more by offering your obedience rather than a religious sacrifice.&#8221;</p>
<p>RonP, I can&#8217;t square that with this:</p>
<p>    &#8220;&#8221;He will answer them, &#8216;I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Not to attack you personally, but the attitude you&#8217;re implying is pretty disgusting: God doesn&#8217;t send you &#8216;the Spirit&#8217; to help a motorist every so often, he gives you the EXPLICIT COMMAND to HELP EVERYBODY as you would Him. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no equivocation in that. Its not legalism, its a command from the God of Love to show love for others if you have it.</p>
<p>I can listen to a hundred people say &#8220;I don&#8217;t feel like helping you&#8221; and be fine with it, but this is the first time I&#8217;ve heard anyone defend their disinclinations to charity with &#8220;God didn&#8217;t tell me to!!!&#8221; </p>
<p>Seriously &#8211; for any of you out there who sincerely think yourselves too busy with your walk with God to help me change a flat tire on the highway, you can go to Hell (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Matthew+23%3A45" class="bibleref" title="ESV Matthew 23:45">Matthew 23:45</a>).</p>
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