Comments on: The Trouble With Too Many Compliments

By: apologist7

apologist7 — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:14:59 +0000

“There is no deader dead end for me than what Ken Hamm does to the Bible.”

Rather a sweeping statement – like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I read of your teaching of Genesis, and have done exactly the same – that is starting with the pre-incarnate Jesus, etc. However, as one whose faith for a long time was inhibited by the “truth” of science, I was released from that bondage by information such as can be found on the AIG website. My experience has been that Christians who do not have a taste for science are more likely to accept the opinion of “popular” science authorities, whereas those whom God has gifted differently (who enjoy science) tend to accept the Young Earth(YE) view.

I had an revealing web dialog with a professor from a Christian college. Here is an exerpt:
”
I am in the math/compsci department. That department and
the science department are predominantly young earthers with a couple not sure about things.
As you get to faculty who know nothing about science, you find all sorts of strange beliefs
as people don’t seem to have broken free from the evolutionary propaganda of their
schooling.
”

Yes, Jesus is the creator and central to scripture, but the theme of scripture seems to be Adam’s relationship with him (we are all part of Adam). Allowing popular scientific thought to cloud that relationship by asserting it’s superior grasp of a type of truth over scripture is kin to the serpent’s “Did God really say…”. God, the ultimate knower of all science did say it, and he never even hinted at “billions of years”. They are unnecessary for his relationship with us, and demean his reputation with us. You don’t have to be YE to be saved, but giving science jurisdiction over a certain type of truth is like keeping a household idol – it lessens Jesus’ power in your relationship to him.

By: Pilgrim

Pilgrim — Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:35:01 +0000

Splendid stuff, iMonk — brilliant! And you’re a Mac user too — methinks this thing can only get better: thank you.

Love the piece on inerrancy too. I was banned from being Chairman of the Christian Union at my first college because I refused to sign up to a doctrinal statement that made daft claims about infallibility.

More power to you, brother! Have linked to this from the BapChat forum:
http://middx.net/bapchat/board/viewtopic.php?t=301

By: kahollowayjr

kahollowayjr — Tue, 16 May 2006 16:21:56 +0000

This reminds me of a sermon I heard in my late teens where the point was made that the Bible is not exempt from being a subject of idolatry. The point stuck with me. In difference to some other blogger comments, the Holy Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, which is different that “written by the Holy Spirit.” It is imperative that we reserve lordship for Christ and glorification and worship for the Father.

By: inhiscourts

inhiscourts — Sat, 13 May 2006 01:16:08 +0000

I don’t understand where the confusion lies here.

God is God
The Bible is not
Jesus is the Word
the Bible is not Jesus
There is no 4th person of the Trinity called Bible

The Bible, contrary to how some seem to think(the Together for the Gospel guys for 1) is not our sole authority – God is.

How could it be more clear?

I think some here are getting wrapped up in externals.

People without Bibles can still have relationship with God. People without Bibles can still have Truth revealed. This would not be so if the Bible was on the same level as Spirit.

By: ed lebert

ed lebert — Fri, 12 May 2006 17:33:04 +0000

I’m just trying to get a handle on how you practically read a verse like Joshua 10:13 “And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.” I mean, the author is actually appealing to another source to further convince the reader that it actually took place. This verse is part of the Old Testament – something that was clearly thought of by Jesus and the New Testament authors as being written ultimately by God.

So when you read this verse, do you think to yourself, “Whether this happened or not doesn’t matter, because it’s all about Jesus”? Because the human author sure seems to think it matters that you believe it happened. And the reason he gives for why its important (verse 14) is because the point is that God fought for Israel. The point is Jesus, unquestionably! But according to Joshua, this point hangs on whether or not God actually did stop the sun. Because if it never happened – God didn’t fight for Israel.

I understand you have people like me badger you all the time on this blog, so I will stop here and I will let you have the last word. I also want to let you know that my heart has said “amen” to everything I’ve read from your blog – I’ve just had difficulty understanding your vision of Scripture’s authority in this article alone. But I know already that I have a lot to learn from you.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Fri, 12 May 2006 16:26:36 +0000

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/we-thought-he-was-such-a-nice-boyand-then-we-found-out-he-didnt-believe-ininerrancy

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Fri, 12 May 2006 16:17:40 +0000

A straightforward statement of time made in a prescientific culture is interpreted wrongly if it is interpreted PRIMARILY scientific.

Stop assuming that science must give its nod before the Bible is true. The Bible is true because Christ is the Truth.

http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/B/bible.html

There is no deader dead end for me than what Ken Hamm does to the Bible.

The point of creation is Jesus
The point of the fall is Jesus
The point of the flood is Jesus
The point of the Abraham story is Jesus

This is the only level of truth that matters. The truth is a person, not a scientific proposition.

If I don’t believe the sun stood still I don’t believe the Bible? That’s not what Hebrews 1:1-4, John 1:1-18 are all about.

By: ed lebert

ed lebert — Fri, 12 May 2006 15:35:18 +0000

So, in other words you would not believe the bible even if it made such an explicit and unambiguous statement about the age of the earth? I’m not trying to badger you, I’m just trying to fully understand your view of the authority of Scripture.

It seems to me the bible makes “scientific” statements all the time, even about Jesus. Walking on water, the transfiguration, all the miracles, the virgin birth, walking through walls. These are all things that make very specific “scientific” observations, but I’m guessing you don’t throw these out because “the bible is prescientific and therefore scientifically unreliable”.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Fri, 12 May 2006 14:59:55 +0000

It may help you to know that I don’t accept “inerrancy” as a valid term to apply to the Bible’s statements about science. My question about a Biblical statement on creation is how it relates to Jesus and the Gospel. In general, I see Biblical writers as prescientific, so when they say “stars will fall from the sky,” I interpret that as an unscientific statement.

I don’t think my views on scientific inerrancy are really that important. If I were in a church and the preacher wanted to waste my time saying Genesis was a science book, I’d leave and go get a cup of coffee somewhere.

By: ed lebert

ed lebert — Fri, 12 May 2006 13:45:59 +0000

I also agree that the point of the Bible is Jesus Christ (Luke 24:27). But I guess I don’t understand the rest of your answer: “I do not see the point of ‘inspiration’ beyond communicating the Final Word of God spoken in Jesus.”
If you don’t mind me asking, what if the Bible explicitly said, “The earth was created exactly and literally 1,234 years before Moses.”? Would you think it doesn’t have enough authority for us to believe it? To me, the issue of young earth/old earth hinges on what Scripture actually says and means, rather than ignoring whatever the Bible says and taking Geology’s word for it. I think, if it’s God’s word, it carries authority over anything it teaches.