Comments on: The Pre-Schooler and the Pistol http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:36:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: RonP http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524123 RonP Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:46:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524123 Over the last several years, I have become a big fan of resolving issues of scriptural interpretation (or any important church issue, for that matter) through consensus. This involves keeping an issue on the table and open for discussion until the entire church body arrives at either the same conclusion or gets close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades -- meaning that while there may be different shades of interpretation or opinion still present, there's no real contradiction or further cause for argument. Sometimes it involves reaching a collective agreement to refrain from having an official church position on those more difficult and enigmatic aspects of biblical interpretation (such as the predestination-versus-free-will thing). Some may disagree, but I don't think a church has to have official doctrinal positions on every little thing contained in sacred scripture -- and I think admitting that you're not certain about something beyond a reasonable doubt is actually one way that we can honor God's written word as a manifestation of truth that sometimes transcends human understanding. But regardless of differing methods of conflict resolution, I believe the real keys in keeping church bodies together in the face of interpretational or theological disagreements lies in maintaining a strong focus on the relational life of the church and making sure that the law of Christ-like love provides the boundaries when it comes to how disagreements are expressed and resolution is pursued. And this often requires taking an occassional break from the issue of conflict and addressing the more pressing matter of how the body is conducting itself in the midst of this conflict. Actually doing this as a church can sometimes result in a church-wide outbreak of conscience and conviction that utlimately leads to the issue of conflict being dropped by both sides. I've seen this happen. However, if that doesn't happen and no resolution is forthcoming, I would advise independent churches to seek out an arbitrating authority -- preferably one with no relational ties to anyone involved in the conflict and no discernable dogs in the race. Over the last several years, I have become a big fan of resolving issues of scriptural interpretation (or any important church issue, for that matter) through consensus. This involves keeping an issue on the table and open for discussion until the entire church body arrives at either the same conclusion or gets close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades — meaning that while there may be different shades of interpretation or opinion still present, there’s no real contradiction or further cause for argument. Sometimes it involves reaching a collective agreement to refrain from having an official church position on those more difficult and enigmatic aspects of biblical interpretation (such as the predestination-versus-free-will thing). Some may disagree, but I don’t think a church has to have official doctrinal positions on every little thing contained in sacred scripture — and I think admitting that you’re not certain about something beyond a reasonable doubt is actually one way that we can honor God’s written word as a manifestation of truth that sometimes transcends human understanding.
But regardless of differing methods of conflict resolution, I believe the real keys in keeping church bodies together in the face of interpretational or theological disagreements lies in maintaining a strong focus on the relational life of the church and making sure that the law of Christ-like love provides the boundaries when it comes to how disagreements are expressed and resolution is pursued. And this often requires taking an occassional break from the issue of conflict and addressing the more pressing matter of how the body is conducting itself in the midst of this conflict. Actually doing this as a church can sometimes result in a church-wide outbreak of conscience and conviction that utlimately leads to the issue of conflict being dropped by both sides. I’ve seen this happen.
However, if that doesn’t happen and no resolution is forthcoming, I would advise independent churches to seek out an arbitrating authority — preferably one with no relational ties to anyone involved in the conflict and no discernable dogs in the race.

]]> By: Dr. Baines http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524111 Dr. Baines Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:40:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524111 Mike thanks for another thought provoking post. Mike thanks for another thought provoking post.

]]> By: William Morgan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524082 William Morgan Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:26:05 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524082 Witnessing for Christ and preaching the gospel are two different things and I found that my kids had a better understanding of the principles by watching these <a href="http://www.nestentertainment.com/christian-dvds-videos_c1287.aspx" rel="nofollow">Christian dvds</a>. Witnessing for Christ and preaching the gospel are two different things and I found that my kids had a better understanding of the principles by watching these Christian dvds.

]]> By: Matthew Johnston http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524062 Matthew Johnston Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:58:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524062 AAahhhhh sounds like a wack job 'pastor'..... We have plenty of those $ hungry lads and lasses around here......[Australia] Thank you Mike AAahhhhh sounds like a wack job ‘pastor’…..

We have plenty of those $ hungry lads and lasses around here……[Australia]

Thank you Mike

]]> By: Chaplain Mike http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524061 Chaplain Mike Fri, 29 Jan 2010 01:42:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524061 Matthew, when some pastors around here say they have a "Word from God," they are claiming to have some special Spirit-inspired insight into the Bible (or, in some cases into divine wisdom apart from the Bible) that is given exclusively to them as "God's anointed." That's what I meant by using that phrase. Hope that helps. Matthew, when some pastors around here say they have a “Word from God,” they are claiming to have some special Spirit-inspired insight into the Bible (or, in some cases into divine wisdom apart from the Bible) that is given exclusively to them as “God’s anointed.” That’s what I meant by using that phrase. Hope that helps.

]]> By: Matthew Johnston http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524058 Matthew Johnston Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:53:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524058 more along the lines of a "Word from God" Mike. Sorry I asked. more along the lines of a “Word from God” Mike.

Sorry I asked.

]]> By: Rick Ritchie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524046 Rick Ritchie Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:27:25 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524046 I like the post, overall. One challenge is in rightly locating which issues are central and which aren't. Most would agree that we should pick our battles and only cause a ruckus where it really counts. But many don't agree on what counts. We could fault the pastor and discover we're only angry because his priorities are not our priorities. But the way the story was told, I think we can see why that is not the case here. I think the frustration of seeing a pastor do this and finding he was on his way out is that he didn't himself think that the outcome was worth sticking around to deal with. If he had drawn battle lines and then seen this matter out for a decade, there would be more tendency to think, "Okay. Maybe he had a settled conviction and really thought this needed doing." His behavior suggests otherwise. We need to leave some room for people to have different convictions as to what counts as central. But even those who agree with us should count the cost of the battles they engage. I like the post, overall. One challenge is in rightly locating which issues are central and which aren’t. Most would agree that we should pick our battles and only cause a ruckus where it really counts. But many don’t agree on what counts. We could fault the pastor and discover we’re only angry because his priorities are not our priorities. But the way the story was told, I think we can see why that is not the case here. I think the frustration of seeing a pastor do this and finding he was on his way out is that he didn’t himself think that the outcome was worth sticking around to deal with. If he had drawn battle lines and then seen this matter out for a decade, there would be more tendency to think, “Okay. Maybe he had a settled conviction and really thought this needed doing.” His behavior suggests otherwise.

We need to leave some room for people to have different convictions as to what counts as central. But even those who agree with us should count the cost of the battles they engage.

]]> By: Bror Erickson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524042 Bror Erickson Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:15:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524042 Chaplain Mike, You write: "Furthermore, though he spouts off his convictions with great fervor, behind the scenes he really has no vested interest in the outcome. All the while he is trying to get the church to change, he himself is trying to change churches!" I get the point of your post. And I think in essence you are right. Though I take a bit of issue with this, and it goes back to the communion of saints issue, what others are doing in the name of Christ, is a matter in which we all have vested interest. And perhaps it is better that he use his capital, so to speak, to effect the change, and leave so someone with less baggage surrounding him because of that controversy can help sweep up the mess left in the wake, heal the wounds so to speak. He would be in a wolefully bad position to do that himself. Chaplain Mike,
You write: “Furthermore, though he spouts off his convictions with great fervor, behind the scenes he really has no vested interest in the outcome. All the while he is trying to get the church to change, he himself is trying to change churches!”
I get the point of your post. And I think in essence you are right. Though I take a bit of issue with this, and it goes back to the communion of saints issue, what others are doing in the name of Christ, is a matter in which we all have vested interest. And perhaps it is better that he use his capital, so to speak, to effect the change, and leave so someone with less baggage surrounding him because of that controversy can help sweep up the mess left in the wake, heal the wounds so to speak. He would be in a wolefully bad position to do that himself.

]]> By: J http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524039 J Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:52:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524039 Re, The Book of Eli: I'm strongly betting that the movie is struggle over who gets the Book and at the end of the movie, the book falls open and it's blank. Re, The Book of Eli: I’m strongly betting that the movie is struggle over who gets the Book and at the end of the movie, the book falls open and it’s blank.

]]> By: chaplain mike http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preschooler-and-the-pistol/comment-page-1#comment-524038 chaplain mike Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:29:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5501#comment-524038 Matthew, I'm not sure what is confusing. I am merely restating the point of the post. The Bible is powerful. When taught and applied in wisdom and love, it brings untold blessings. When used carelessly and incorrectly, for improper agendas, it can be destructive. Matthew, I’m not sure what is confusing. I am merely restating the point of the post.

The Bible is powerful. When taught and applied in wisdom and love, it brings untold blessings. When used carelessly and incorrectly, for improper agendas, it can be destructive.

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