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	<title>Comments on: The Preeminent Question</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Rucker</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Rucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent! Well said! Way to bring it all back home to what it is really all about. We readers thank you once again! Peace be the journey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent! Well said! Way to bring it all back home to what it is really all about. We readers thank you once again! Peace be the journey!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I did a study a few years ago of what the apostles in their letters taught about Jesus -- who he is, what he means to the believer, and so forth.  I came up with an impressive list of attributes.  According to the epistles, Jesus is --

· Our access to God (Eph. 2:18) 

· The source of God&#039;s affection and compassion toward us (Phil. 21:1) 

· Our claim to blamelessness and holiness (Eph. 1:4; Col. 1:22; 1 Thess. 3:13) 

· The source of every spiritual blessing (Eph. 1:3) 

· The source of the character of God in us (Gal. 5:22 -23) 

· Our comfort (2 Cor. 1:3-5) 

· God&#039;s communication through us to the world (2 Cor. 3:3) 

· Our completeness ( Col 1:28 , 2:10) 

· Our death to the old self (Gal. 5:24) 

· Our deliverer from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:13) 

· Our encouragement (Phil. 2:1) 

· Our fellowship with God (Phil. 2:1) 

· Our source of forgiveness (Rom. 8:1) 

· Our freedom (Rom. 8:2; Gal. 5:1) 

· The source of fruitfulness, success, and accomplishment in our life (Rom. 7:4; 15:18) 

· The fullness of God in us (Eph. 3:19) 

· Our experience of God&#039;s glory (Rom. 8:30 ; 2 Thess. 1:12) 

· Our hope (Eph. 1:18 ; 1 Tim. 1:1) 

· Our justification before God (Gal. 2:16 -17) 

· The source of God&#039;s kindness toward us (Eph. 2:7) 

· Our liberty (2 Cor. 3:17 ; Gal. 2:4) 

· Our life (Acts 17:28 ; Rom. 6:8; Gal. 2:20 ; Col. 2:13, 3:3) 

· Our experience of the love of God (Rom. 8:39 ; Eph. 3:17 -18) 

· The one who manifests the power of God in us (Eph. 1:19) 

· Our motivation and our ability (Phil. 2:13) 

· Our peace with God, and our peace in every situation (1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Thess. 3:16) 

· The perfecter of God&#039;s work and purpose in us (Phil. 1:6) 

· Our connection to the power of God (1 Cor. 1:24 ; Phil. 3:10) 

· Our power to walk by the Spirit (Gal. 5:25) 

· The source of effective prayer (Rom. 8:26 , 34) 

· The one who brings the presence of God into our experience (2 Cor. 2:14 ; Eph. 2:6) 

· The one who makes us partakers of the promises of God (Gal. 3:29 -4:7; Eph. 3:6) 

· Our protection from the evil one (2 Thess. 3:3) 

· Our protector in heart and mind (Phil. 4:7) 

· Our redemption (Rom. 3:24 , 5:8; 1 Cor. 1:30 ; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14) 

· Our rescuer from the darkness (Col. 1:13) 

· Our rescuer from judgment (1 Thess. 1:10) 

· The resident of our hearts (Eph. 3:17) 

· Our resurrection (Eph. 2:4-5; Col. 2:12) 

· Our righteousness (Rom. 5:17 , 10:4; 1 Cor. 1:30 ; 2 Cor. 5:21 ; Phil. 3:9) 

· Our sanctification, or holiness (1 Cor. 1:2, 30; 2 Thess. 2:13 ) 

· Our security (Eph. 1:13) 

· Our strength (even when we are weak) (2 Cor. 12:9; Ehp. 3:16 , 6:10 ; Phil. 4:13) 

· Our supply for every need (Phil. 4:19) 

· Our union with the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9) 

· Our source of unity (Rom. 15:5) 

· Our victory (Rom. 7:24 -25; 1 Cor. 15:57 ; 2 Cor. 2:14) 

· Our knowledge of the will of God (1 Cor. 1:24 , 30; Col. 2:3) 

· Our source of wisdom and knowledge (1 Cor. 1:24 , 30; Col. 2:3) 

· The first and the last  namely, our everything (Rev. 1:8) 

...and this is for starters.

When I read Paul talking about &quot;knowing Christ,&quot; I realize that he&#039;s talking about knowing Christ in experience...not know ABOUT Christ from a book, or from attending a seminar, or from a systematic theology.  To me, &quot;living the Christian life&quot; means experiencing Jesus as my comfort, as God&#039;s love, as the source of every spiritual blessing, as the character of God in me, as my access to the Father, as my liberty (from bondage), as my motivation, as my empowerment, as my security (a petal of the TULIP), as an expression of God&#039;s love for others through me, as the life in the branch that produces the fruit on the vine, as my first and last....not in abstract terms, but in first-hand experience in the nitty-gritty of my life.

And the odd thing about this is that had it not been for Acts and the epistles, I wouldn&#039;t know that Christ is all these things to me, and that these attributes of Christ are available to me by virtue of my spiritual union with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a study a few years ago of what the apostles in their letters taught about Jesus &#8212; who he is, what he means to the believer, and so forth.  I came up with an impressive list of attributes.  According to the epistles, Jesus is &#8211;</p>
<p>· Our access to God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+2%3A18" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 2:18">Eph. 2:18</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of God&#8217;s affection and compassion toward us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+21%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 21:1">Phil. 21:1</a>) </p>
<p>· Our claim to blamelessness and holiness (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A4" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:4">Eph. 1:4</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+1%3A22" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 1:22">Col. 1:22</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thess.+3%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Thess 3:13">1 Thess. 3:13</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of every spiritual blessing (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:3">Eph. 1:3</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of the character of God in us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+5%3A22+-23" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 5:22 -23">Gal. 5:22 -23</a>) </p>
<p>· Our comfort (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+1%3A3-5" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 1:3-5">2 Cor. 1:3-5</a>) </p>
<p>· God&#8217;s communication through us to the world (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+3%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 3:3">2 Cor. 3:3</a>) </p>
<p>· Our completeness ( <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col+1%3A28+%2C+2" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 1:28 , 2">Col 1:28 , 2</a>:10) </p>
<p>· Our death to the old self (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+5%3A24" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 5:24">Gal. 5:24</a>) </p>
<p>· Our deliverer from the curse of the Law (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+3%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 3:13">Gal. 3:13</a>) </p>
<p>· Our encouragement (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+2%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 2:1">Phil. 2:1</a>) </p>
<p>· Our fellowship with God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+2%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 2:1">Phil. 2:1</a>) </p>
<p>· Our source of forgiveness (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:1">Rom. 8:1</a>) </p>
<p>· Our freedom (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A2" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:2">Rom. 8:2</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+5%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 5:1">Gal. 5:1</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of fruitfulness, success, and accomplishment in our life (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+7%3A4" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 7:4">Rom. 7:4</a>; 15:18) </p>
<p>· The fullness of God in us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+3%3A19" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 3:19">Eph. 3:19</a>) </p>
<p>· Our experience of God&#8217;s glory (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A30" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:30">Rom. 8:30</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thess.+1%3A12" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thess 1:12">2 Thess. 1:12</a>) </p>
<p>· Our hope (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A18" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:18">Eph. 1:18</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Tim.+1%3A1" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Tim 1:1">1 Tim. 1:1</a>) </p>
<p>· Our justification before God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+2%3A16+-17" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 2:16 -17">Gal. 2:16 -17</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of God&#8217;s kindness toward us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+2%3A7" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 2:7">Eph. 2:7</a>) </p>
<p>· Our liberty (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+3%3A17" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 3:17">2 Cor. 3:17</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+2%3A4" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 2:4">Gal. 2:4</a>) </p>
<p>· Our life (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Acts+17%3A28" class="bibleref" title="ESV Acts 17:28">Acts 17:28</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+6%3A8" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 6:8">Rom. 6:8</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+2%3A20" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 2:20">Gal. 2:20</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+2%3A13%2C+3" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 2:13, 3">Col. 2:13, 3</a>:3) </p>
<p>· Our experience of the love of God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A39" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:39">Rom. 8:39</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+3%3A17+-18" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 3:17 -18">Eph. 3:17 -18</a>) </p>
<p>· The one who manifests the power of God in us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A19" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:19">Eph. 1:19</a>) </p>
<p>· Our motivation and our ability (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+2%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 2:13">Phil. 2:13</a>) </p>
<p>· Our peace with God, and our peace in every situation (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:3">1 Cor. 1:3</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thess.+3%3A16" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thess 3:16">2 Thess. 3:16</a>) </p>
<p>· The perfecter of God&#8217;s work and purpose in us (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+1%3A6" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 1:6">Phil. 1:6</a>) </p>
<p>· Our connection to the power of God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A24" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:24">1 Cor. 1:24</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+3%3A10" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 3:10">Phil. 3:10</a>) </p>
<p>· Our power to walk by the Spirit (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+5%3A25" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 5:25">Gal. 5:25</a>) </p>
<p>· The source of effective prayer (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A26+%2C+34" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:26 , 34">Rom. 8:26 , 34</a>) </p>
<p>· The one who brings the presence of God into our experience (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+2%3A14" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 2:14">2 Cor. 2:14</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+2%3A6" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 2:6">Eph. 2:6</a>) </p>
<p>· The one who makes us partakers of the promises of God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Gal.+3%3A29+-4" class="bibleref" title="ESV Gal 3:29 -4">Gal. 3:29 -4</a>:7; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+3%3A6" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 3:6">Eph. 3:6</a>) </p>
<p>· Our protection from the evil one (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thess.+3%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thess 3:3">2 Thess. 3:3</a>) </p>
<p>· Our protector in heart and mind (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+4%3A7" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 4:7">Phil. 4:7</a>) </p>
<p>· Our redemption (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+3%3A24+%2C+5" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 3:24 , 5">Rom. 3:24 , 5</a>:8; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A30" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:30">1 Cor. 1:30</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A7" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:7">Eph. 1:7</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+1%3A14" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 1:14">Col. 1:14</a>) </p>
<p>· Our rescuer from the darkness (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+1%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 1:13">Col. 1:13</a>) </p>
<p>· Our rescuer from judgment (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Thess.+1%3A10" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Thess 1:10">1 Thess. 1:10</a>) </p>
<p>· The resident of our hearts (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+3%3A17" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 3:17">Eph. 3:17</a>) </p>
<p>· Our resurrection (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+2%3A4-5" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 2:4-5">Eph. 2:4-5</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+2%3A12" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 2:12">Col. 2:12</a>) </p>
<p>· Our righteousness (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+5%3A17+%2C+10" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 5:17 , 10">Rom. 5:17 , 10</a>:4; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A30" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:30">1 Cor. 1:30</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+5%3A21" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 5:21">2 Cor. 5:21</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+3%3A9" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 3:9">Phil. 3:9</a>) </p>
<p>· Our sanctification, or holiness (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A2%2C+30" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:2, 30">1 Cor. 1:2, 30</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Thess.+2%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Thess 2:13">2 Thess. 2:13</a> ) </p>
<p>· Our security (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph.+1%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1:13">Eph. 1:13</a>) </p>
<p>· Our strength (even when we are weak) (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+12%3A9" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 12:9">2 Cor. 12:9</a>; Ehp. 3:16 , 6:10 ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+4%3A13" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 4:13">Phil. 4:13</a>) </p>
<p>· Our supply for every need (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Phil.+4%3A19" class="bibleref" title="ESV Phil 4:19">Phil. 4:19</a>) </p>
<p>· Our union with the Spirit of God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+8%3A9" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 8:9">Rom. 8:9</a>) </p>
<p>· Our source of unity (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+15%3A5" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 15:5">Rom. 15:5</a>) </p>
<p>· Our victory (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rom.+7%3A24+-25" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rom 7:24 -25">Rom. 7:24 -25</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+15%3A57" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 15:57">1 Cor. 15:57</a> ; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=2+Cor.+2%3A14" class="bibleref" title="ESV 2Cor 2:14">2 Cor. 2:14</a>) </p>
<p>· Our knowledge of the will of God (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A24+%2C+30" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:24 , 30">1 Cor. 1:24 , 30</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+2%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 2:3">Col. 2:3</a>) </p>
<p>· Our source of wisdom and knowledge (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+1%3A24+%2C+30" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 1:24 , 30">1 Cor. 1:24 , 30</a>; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Col.+2%3A3" class="bibleref" title="ESV Col 2:3">Col. 2:3</a>) </p>
<p>· The first and the last  namely, our everything (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Rev.+1%3A8" class="bibleref" title="ESV Rev 1:8">Rev. 1:8</a>) </p>
<p>&#8230;and this is for starters.</p>
<p>When I read Paul talking about &#8220;knowing Christ,&#8221; I realize that he&#8217;s talking about knowing Christ in experience&#8230;not know ABOUT Christ from a book, or from attending a seminar, or from a systematic theology.  To me, &#8220;living the Christian life&#8221; means experiencing Jesus as my comfort, as God&#8217;s love, as the source of every spiritual blessing, as the character of God in me, as my access to the Father, as my liberty (from bondage), as my motivation, as my empowerment, as my security (a petal of the TULIP), as an expression of God&#8217;s love for others through me, as the life in the branch that produces the fruit on the vine, as my first and last&#8230;.not in abstract terms, but in first-hand experience in the nitty-gritty of my life.</p>
<p>And the odd thing about this is that had it not been for Acts and the epistles, I wouldn&#8217;t know that Christ is all these things to me, and that these attributes of Christ are available to me by virtue of my spiritual union with him.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2626</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2626</guid>
		<description>Another thing to consider, related to the question:  The disciples clearly watched Jesus in his earthly ministry, were as close to him as anyone could possibly imagine, and yet to a man, they didn&#039;t give much evidence of &quot;getting it&quot; in terms of Jesus&#039; significance to their lives and ours until he had died, rose, ascended, and they were given or filled with the Holy Spirit at and after Pentecost.

(And, btw, I often wonder how the apostles could have gotten their doctrine straight without the benefit of 2000 years of systematic theologies.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing to consider, related to the question:  The disciples clearly watched Jesus in his earthly ministry, were as close to him as anyone could possibly imagine, and yet to a man, they didn&#8217;t give much evidence of &#8220;getting it&#8221; in terms of Jesus&#8217; significance to their lives and ours until he had died, rose, ascended, and they were given or filled with the Holy Spirit at and after Pentecost.</p>
<p>(And, btw, I often wonder how the apostles could have gotten their doctrine straight without the benefit of 2000 years of systematic theologies.  <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: imonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2627</link>
		<dc:creator>imonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2627</guid>
		<description>Which raises an interesting possibility: That much of Christian theology isn&#039;t necessary AT ALL to saving faith in Jesus.

The faith of the woman healed of 12 years of bleeding was probably utterly devoid of the results of 2,000 years of Christian theological speculation,  yet her faith is commended.

The Conversation that results FROM Jesus is not the same as FAITH IN JESUS.

Yeah...that&#039;s what I said :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which raises an interesting possibility: That much of Christian theology isn&#8217;t necessary AT ALL to saving faith in Jesus.</p>
<p>The faith of the woman healed of 12 years of bleeding was probably utterly devoid of the results of 2,000 years of Christian theological speculation,  yet her faith is commended.</p>
<p>The Conversation that results FROM Jesus is not the same as FAITH IN JESUS.</p>
<p>Yeah&#8230;that&#8217;s what I said <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2628</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2628</guid>
		<description>BTW, Michael, I&#039;ve lost count how many times I&#039;ve passed your essay on &quot;Christless preaching&quot; from iMonk archives to others.  I think that piece really nails what&#039;s wrong with the evangelical church today.  I&#039;ve been grinding this axe for years -- that we rarely hear, either from the pulpit, nor from most of the church-run/sanctioned Bible studies, about Jesus Christ -- and all I get is a glazed stare back from believers.

The idea that Jesus is the central focus of all scripture, and should be the central focus of all theologies, is sadly lost on a lot of Christians.  I&#039;m sure you and I know people who would go to their deaths (figuratively, perhaps) defending &quot;limited atonement,&quot; but when you ask them, &quot;What difference does it make to you in your daily experience that you have the resurrection life of Jesus living in you?&quot; they don&#039;t have a clue what you&#039;re talking about.

You mentioned that scripture is the recipe to the cake, and the cake is Jesus.  I would add, and I think you&#039;d agree, that we were created to partake of and enjoy the cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Michael, I&#8217;ve lost count how many times I&#8217;ve passed your essay on &#8220;Christless preaching&#8221; from iMonk archives to others.  I think that piece really nails what&#8217;s wrong with the evangelical church today.  I&#8217;ve been grinding this axe for years &#8212; that we rarely hear, either from the pulpit, nor from most of the church-run/sanctioned Bible studies, about Jesus Christ &#8212; and all I get is a glazed stare back from believers.</p>
<p>The idea that Jesus is the central focus of all scripture, and should be the central focus of all theologies, is sadly lost on a lot of Christians.  I&#8217;m sure you and I know people who would go to their deaths (figuratively, perhaps) defending &#8220;limited atonement,&#8221; but when you ask them, &#8220;What difference does it make to you in your daily experience that you have the resurrection life of Jesus living in you?&#8221; they don&#8217;t have a clue what you&#8217;re talking about.</p>
<p>You mentioned that scripture is the recipe to the cake, and the cake is Jesus.  I would add, and I think you&#8217;d agree, that we were created to partake of and enjoy the cake.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2629</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2629</guid>
		<description>imonk:  &quot;That much of Christian theology isn&#039;t necessary AT ALL to saving faith in Jesus.&quot;

I absolutely agree with this!  And this is one of the wonderful things about the grace and calling of God:  our salvation is not dependent on perfectly understanding all the nuances and subtleties of salvation and how it was accomplished and applied.  So, someone can be wrong on some arcane point of theology, and still be saved.  And, when you think about it, which one of us has a perfect understanding of God&#039;s plan of salvation, and how he worked, and is working, it out?  I&#039;m not saying that &quot;grace&quot; allows us to be intellectually sloppy, or egregiously wrong on vital points, but much of the straining at gnats that goes on in some theological debates is useless, IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>imonk:  &#8220;That much of Christian theology isn&#8217;t necessary AT ALL to saving faith in Jesus.&#8221;</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with this!  And this is one of the wonderful things about the grace and calling of God:  our salvation is not dependent on perfectly understanding all the nuances and subtleties of salvation and how it was accomplished and applied.  So, someone can be wrong on some arcane point of theology, and still be saved.  And, when you think about it, which one of us has a perfect understanding of God&#8217;s plan of salvation, and how he worked, and is working, it out?  I&#8217;m not saying that &#8220;grace&#8221; allows us to be intellectually sloppy, or egregiously wrong on vital points, but much of the straining at gnats that goes on in some theological debates is useless, IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian C</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2630</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2630</guid>
		<description>Sincerely agree that Christ is to be the center of all we do, say, and learn.  I really like the posing the question you raise--&quot;How does ______  take me closer to Jesus?&quot;  This is a high standard and if you apply it to activities in and out of church, a lot of stuff starts to look silly.  

One question for now---what do you mean in the comment by 
&quot;The Conversation that results FROM Jesus is not the same as FAITH IN JESUS.&quot;?

I don&#039;t understand this statement.

Brian C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sincerely agree that Christ is to be the center of all we do, say, and learn.  I really like the posing the question you raise&#8211;&#8221;How does ______  take me closer to Jesus?&#8221;  This is a high standard and if you apply it to activities in and out of church, a lot of stuff starts to look silly.  </p>
<p>One question for now&#8212;what do you mean in the comment by<br />
&#8220;The Conversation that results FROM Jesus is not the same as FAITH IN JESUS.&#8221;?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand this statement.</p>
<p>Brian C.</p>
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		<title>By: imonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2631</link>
		<dc:creator>imonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2631</guid>
		<description>I hopefully explained it in the example.

Two thousand years of Christian theology are the conversation that followed Jesus. But what is going on in the experience of so many who came to faith in Jesus in the New Testament wasn&#039;t two thousand years of theological discussion. It was sola fide. Simple faith.

A primary heresy of many of us with theological bents is to make our theology equal to faith. Much of our theology is utterly incomprehensible to most people, and maybe even to us, if we&#039;d be honest.

Faith is simple trust in all God is for us in Jesus. Theology is the conversation that follows. Interesting. Important. Connected. And not the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hopefully explained it in the example.</p>
<p>Two thousand years of Christian theology are the conversation that followed Jesus. But what is going on in the experience of so many who came to faith in Jesus in the New Testament wasn&#8217;t two thousand years of theological discussion. It was sola fide. Simple faith.</p>
<p>A primary heresy of many of us with theological bents is to make our theology equal to faith. Much of our theology is utterly incomprehensible to most people, and maybe even to us, if we&#8217;d be honest.</p>
<p>Faith is simple trust in all God is for us in Jesus. Theology is the conversation that follows. Interesting. Important. Connected. And not the same.</p>
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		<title>By: graham</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2632</link>
		<dc:creator>graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2632</guid>
		<description>Yes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!</p>
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		<title>By: Sven</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-preeminent-question/comment-page-1#comment-2633</link>
		<dc:creator>Sven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=157#comment-2633</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, couldn&#039;t agree more. It&#039;s amazing how much Christian theology doesn&#039;t even mention Christ, let alone begin with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, couldn&#8217;t agree more. It&#8217;s amazing how much Christian theology doesn&#8217;t even mention Christ, let alone begin with him.</p>
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