The Original Coming Evangelical Collapse Posts
March 10, 2009 by iMonk
UPDATE: I’ve been linked at Out of Ur, GetReligion and all over today. I want to say two things to all of them: 1) The CSM piece was on the commentary page. It is commentary, not news or research. 2) I did not say that evangelicalism is dying. I said it is going to decline quickly to a smaller, more chastened, more diverse, less influential form.
For all my new readers, here are the original, longer and more detailed “Coming Evangelical Collapse” posts.
The Coming Evangelical Collapse: Part 1
The Coming Evangelical Collapse: Part 2
The Coming Evangelical Collapse: Part 3
Couple of notes on the original posts that may clear up some commenter feedback:
1) I clearly said that evangelicalism was going to suffer a collapse, not at all meaning it would die. I said that HALF of evangelicals would be something else within 2-3 generations/10-20 years.
2) I clearly said I am not a researcher or a prophet.
3) I am all about church planting and new churches.
4) Megachurch evangelicalism will survive on size, not on fidelity to the Gospel.
5) Pentecostalism has more energy, not less problems. It is also more cross cultural and open to the work of the Spirit.
I am sobered, and amazed at your work. I’ll be reading your blog regularly. I’ll also put you on my blog roll.
Good googley moogley, you can now access your article at CSM on the Drudge Report. Now, that’s impressive! Good job, Bro.!
Can you explain to me how Christian schools are going to lose status when public education is failing? It’s pretty observable that the next generation of competent workers is coming out of homeschooling and private Christian schools. It’s also impossible to ignore that public education is grossly inferior in educating disadvantaged children. And then there’s demographics which you seem to be ignoring completely – people who are anti-Christian in the way you describe just don’t have children. So we’re going to have a generation where the bulk of the middle class was educated in Christian institutions, even if they aren’t fervent believers – and the bulk of the population as a whole comes from Christian homes. And these people are going to help dismantle evangelicalism? Yeah I’m not seeing it.
I have been at a Christian school for 17 years.
I think the problem will be money. It’s that simple.
If Christian schools want to change and be multi-racial and affordable, then you are right. But if they aren’t, then ask the RCC how its going. Some schools in white suburban areas booming, but others closing.
I hope they flourish. I really do. But I don’t see it. A lot of them will close. Remember than I am talking about a 50% change for evangelicals. Not the end.
>…So we’re going to have a generation where the bulk of the middle class was educated in Christian institutions.
Check your numbers there. I think you are a bit off. Is even 15% of America in private schools?
Well I hope there is a 100% change and everyone becomes Catholic or Orthodox and the Church reunifies and we have a big party. The part I am disputing is the idea that Christianity is going become identified as some big threat to children by enough powerful organizations to matter. That’s ridiculous, because people who believe that kind of nonsense don’t have children and think getting bus ads about atheism is an awesome feat of organization.
And money is not the problem in the way you’re thinking about it. People will sacrifice for the education of their children. [Mod edit]
Michael,
Great article. As a former cog in the machine (I was a youth pastor for three years and young adults pastor for a year and a half), I must say that I’m not altogether disheartened by your predictions.
I am SOOOO tired of American Churchianity. Not that I recommend this film to anyone, but I think the movie “Saved” is a pretty pointed indictment of American Churchianity.
I am so discouraged, lately, at the condition of the American church. Every church I visit, lately, is more like an episode of Oprah or Dr. Phil. We don’t need Sunday morning messages on how to balance our checkbooks, anymore. We need Jesus.
I think that theologically limp-wristed preachers like Joel Osteen (the smiley preacher), who refuse to discuss sin and repentance (the very reason for salvation), are so symptomatic of the man-tainted gospel that has been preached for the last quarter of the 20th century.
I pray that in the collapse, the message of Godly men like Ray Comfort will be elevated above the ear-tickling, milquetoast gospel of most modern pastors.
Thank you.
These sentiments have clearly exposed the underbelly of the real agenda of the forces behind the slow death of America.
Rather than fulfilling the commission of Christ to simply preach His Gospel to allow the Word of God to convict the human heart as the true catalyst of change, we as a collective body are misappropriating our strength and energy into using the government and intellectual debate as weapons of warfare in this spiritual battle.
In doing so, we as a collective body of Christians are not allowing the Word of God to Save, we are hiding behind conservative media moguls like Rush Limbaugh as though they are saviors of a principle that America was founded upon.
While the wealth of Rush Limbaugh can cushion him from the attacks he suffers, the wealth of the individual Christian cannot be relied upon to endure the vile attacks of the enemy in a new America where the enemy does not play by the fair rules of engagement.
In a new America where the President rules by clear policy that government is the new god of America, there is no future for Christianity in America if the Christian expects government to yield to the true God by merely petitioning government to change.
Christians in America must stop hiding behind government and public approval and start forging ahead with no fear of what man can do. We must do this now if God’s grace will save this Country from its future course of soon destruction from our own ways.
Wes Hazlett
The Bodyguard: A Christian Apologetics Ministry
I’ve linked to here from CSM via Drudge.
I think you have a nice piece of work, here.
A question, though: Don’t you think “in the main” that Pentecostalism is fraught with experientialism and danger from occultism?
It doesn’t matter what the numbers are – the people who got the superior education will be the ones doing the professional and bureaucratic work. They will have more prestige and set the tone for people wanting to improve themselves. They will be overwhelmingly the products of Catholic schools, Christian academies, and homeschooling – and if we continue having affirmative action this will be even more true, because public school fails black and Latino children the worst.
I want to encourage you to read Rodney Stark’s book “What American’s Really Believe.” We may see a downturn in Christian faith under Obama, but I doubt it. Yes, some in the evangelical community have too closely aligned themselves with the GOP, but this economic disaster is going to scare the “hell” out of many who have become cool toward faith. Obama’s liberalism will not last through the next 8 years. Just like with Carter, liberalism will go out of style as surely as neo-cons. Young evangelicals are doing a good job of communicating the Gospel and many churches are seeing a rebirth of faith and devotion among the young. They have begun to address issues like the environment and AIDS in a compelling way. This sort of servant-hearted ministry has always come with awakenings and these signs of life should give us great hope for the decades that are ahead.
Honestly. Do you really believe that young evangelicals know less about their faith than the uneducated masses that lived in America 100 years ago?
This sort of “the end of Christian influence” story line is as old as America. In the last 1700s every major academic institution in this nation was proclaiming the death of Christianity. America is far more committed to faith in Christ and the local church than we were in the 1700s or the early 1900s for that matter.
Brett: I never said the end of anything. I said a major downturn and diversification.
Michael,
As a Roman Catholic, how does Catholicism stand to benefit the collapse of the Evangelical sect of Christianity? I find that appalling, as we are all striving to find peace and unity in this world. Your pessimistic viewpoint is saddening to many Catholics that I have passed your blog to. In discussion with them, the global Christian community should be a united front instead of waiting in the wings to watch our brothers and sisters fall prey to the secular demons that have taken root in the culture of death, especially in the United States.
An ecumenical council should be spearheaded by the Catholic bishops in the United States to address the worries of our protestant brothers and sisters and how we can stand together. Our views on certain issues might divide us, but our main goal — salvation — is something that should unite us to work together. Catholics don’t have anything to gain when believers stop believing. It weakens the foundation of Christianity on a global level.
If we want our children to live in a world where the word and works of Jesus Christ are not considered taboo, we need to stand firm and stand together.
I am simply saying what you can read at any Catholic research site: There’s been a stready increase in evangelical converts since Vat II and esp since JPII and B16. My wife included.
That is positive in a lot of ways, but it will bring evangelicalism into a lot of parishes.
BTW- I wish I knew more Catholics like you
God bless you.
The op ed piece you authored in the Christian Science Monitor and these pieces on “The Coming Evangelical Collapse” are very long on your personal opinion and short on analysis. You confuse ongoing change with “collapse”.
The church is always changing. Evangelical churches look different today from what the same churches looked like in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Pastors change, and emphasize different things. Music directors change, and bring in new music. New opportunities for ministry arise, and missions budgets shift to reflect those changes.
The next 20 years will see the same phenomenon continue. To characterize these changes as an “evangelical collapse” is entirely disingenuous. You use the word “collapse” to grab headlines, promote your bias, and sell books.
But your views do not reflect the facts on the ground. The liberal church is collapsing – not the evangelical church. Liberal churches all over the country are shrinking and closing their doors. Evangelical churches are growing and expanding. You may wish this was not true but a bit more attention to facts and research would erase any doubt.
Jesus’ message of sacrificial redemption is one that has endured for 2000 years, and will continue to endure. Evangelicals take the gospel seriously and seek to explain its core unchanging message to a culture that is constantly changing.
We don’t need bailouts, we don’t depend on the government, and politics are not central to our message. Our faith and values shape our politics. We vote, and we say what we think.
We are not collapsing.
Now that the most powerful man in media–Matt Drudge–has linked to your CS Monitor article, which in turn links one to your blog… well, I imagine your traffic should skyrocket.
Congratulations.
You had a lot of good stuff to say, but am I correct that you don’t have any quantitative data to support these hypotheses? Don’t get me wrong–your claims appear to have merit, but, for lack of a better pun, I’d prefer to refrain from simply taking them on faith.
Very interesting, Michael. I’ve recently discovered your site through Drudge and plan to read more. I participate in small home churches in the Seattle area. After having been involved in brick and mortar churches for years, I never really had a sense of building a relationship with the Father or fellow Christians…it was a place to go one or two times a week..and because of it’s size, it was difficult to build meaningful relationships with people. We now have tremendous intimacy within the home Church and we are not distracted with the distrations of busy-work that needs to be in place to keep the Western-style churches going.
Thanks for your work…!
bigChris:
http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-aris-study-christianity-on-the-decline-in-america
Researchers like Christine Wicker and theologians like Michael Horton have been saying this stuff forever. This is just my take. I said in the first one that I am a blogger and this is my opinion.
In my opinion, one of the most serious threats on evangelicalism today is the tendancy of people to equate the leaders of the church with the gospel. When the visual leaders fail, such as the numerous cases of child molestation in the catholic church to the widely publicized escapades of TV preachers having affairs with prostitutes, the flock begins to lose faith in their leaders, and this causes an erision in a belief of the gospel. I, myself, have begun to have serious questions about the agendas of ‘organized’ religions, and on more than one occassion have found myself on Sunday mornings hiking in the woods, sitting on a rock in the woods, and reading my bible. The church (any church) must rest upon a solid foundation, and the foundation is not only the gospel but the church leaders.
The church does not need to worry what the world’s response is to it’s gospel message, so long as the message is God’s truth and is doctrinally sound. We know that the gate is narrow, and few will enter. Most of all, we know that God is soverign and His plan will always be done. So,as members of the body, carry out Jesus’s command to spread to gospel to the ends of the earth, and let God take care of the rest.
“…we’re going to have a generation where the bulk of the middle class was educated in Christian institutions.” It may be possible, although I don’t think so, but if it is true, don’t expect it to last. Both my kids went to a Christian school (Lutheran), Pre-K through 8 and both have sworn that they will never put their own kids in parochial schools. Christ was not central; competition in academics and sports were. The arts were non-existant. Truly, many suburban parochial schools exist to keep these suburban kids from having to mingle with the “unwashed masses” in a public school.
I deeply resonated with your posts, Michael. Thank you.
What’s wrong with the complete downfall of “evangelical” Christianity?
If I may, I would like to add a challenging thought to all those who consider themselves “evangelicals.”
First, we must consider the origin of the word to begin with. Are we operating out of the age-old boxes of Catholic and Protestant here… while ignoring a New Testament faith pre 16th century reformation… or even pre 4th century Constantine? In what way are we using this brand name that we hold it closer to our hearts than that name of Christ? It would appear that a lesson in church history is in order.
I can see a modern-day conversation brewing over the term as we know it today. We all have a good idea of what it means presently for Americans. But what does it mean for church history? And is it, along with higher orders of ecclesiology, something we are willing to stuff our faith into and demand it dance for us? Are we caging up Christ in these categories and confusing these with the free, organic, Christ-centered Body of aliens and strangers inhabiting this earth?
I say now is the time for revolution, not reformation. Only one path will see it through the other-side of this mess we’ve made. Let’s go even deeper in our conversations… moving past old rhetoric and the walls we’ve built in human strength. What are those things that are directly connected to the Person of Jesus… and what is ripe for the burn barrel?
Peace,
David D. Flowers
free-lance writer & blogger
The Woodlands, TX
Wow, Michael, I just found you on Christian Science Monitor off of Drudge. You really know what you’re talking about, I appreciate your wisdom and it’s refreshing to have someone put into words what I’ve been observing for a long time. I’ll be checking your blog, you’ve got a new fan….
Bobby: “An ecumenical council should be spearheaded by the Catholic bishops in the United States to address the worries of our protestant brothers and sisters and how we can stand together. Our views on certain issues might divide us, but our main goal — salvation — is something that should unite us to work together. Catholics don’t have anything to gain when believers stop believing. It weakens the foundation of Christianity on a global level.”
Amen to that. I’ve always been pushing hard on my friends the idea that we need to get over the desire to think that their church is the Right Church – that there’s a lot more important things to do than continually bash other Denominations or churches.
The problem is that it’s just so hard for a lot of people to let go of the idea that they’re always, always right, and you’ll be always, always wrong. The comments I’ve seen on his Evangelical Collapse posts is proof enough that there’s incredibly stiff opposition to the recognition that Evangelicalism is in serious trouble…I can only imagine the outrage that would break out on both sides at the idea that the Catholic/Anglican parish and the Evangelical church on the other side of the street should work together.
While I certainly can’t disagree with any of the points asserted in the post, I kept asking “where’s the data?” Must be my skeptical, atheist mind at work again.
It’s certainly true that today’s Christians are shockingly ignorant of their own faith, however, the idea that they’re going to abandon their churches—many of which are central social elements in their communities—is simply preposterous on its face, and perfectly plays into the paranoia and persecution complexes that are the dominant features of this sect.
That said, Evangelical Christians appear to spend their time making life Hell-on-Earth for others—especially gay men and lesbians—so the decline of this especially sadistic strain of religion would be most welcome.
I really enjoyed your comments because they were very thought provoking. While I don’t know your thinking behind a few I generally agree that you’re on to something.
I think there are many variables that could radically change the face of religion and religious tolerance in this country. If the Middle East continues to be a boiling pot, which the Bible promises it will be, and terriorism and religious wars increase, it will be harder and harder for the christian to stand w/o persecution and being perceived as part of the problem; I mean more so than christians are now.
Along with that, I tend to think things will be extremely difficult for Bible believing christians who are not willing to bend to the changing culture. I do believe that abortion, homosexuality, drunkenless, and the list goes on are sins not cultural behaviors. This will be an increasly difficult position in the changing world you write about.
I think the diagnosis is mistaken, even though the decline is correct. The rise of the charismatics/pentacostals conjoined with the rise of theological liberalism in the mainlines began emptying out the mainlines long before there was a “religious right.” Secondly, given the demographics (red staters 3.5 kids, blue staters 1.5 kids) Republicans are set for a rather large surge in the next 35 years as the culture of death consumes itself. Secularism though in practice with increase as people figure out that they can paytheir bills and fill their bellies without church membership. Like the market, the decline will not stop until we hit cultural rock bottom and the choice for the non-rational masses and the intellectual elite is made obvious-either live this way or face extinction. That will take a century or so.
I wouldn’t put Catholicism and Orthodoxy beyond this problem. Catholicism’s educaitonal structure in the west is largely secular and rebellious. And most Orthodox I know are nominal in their understanding and secular largely in their lifestyle. When the majority of your people *plan* on coming 45 minutes late to church to avoid the hassel every sunday with no sanctions from the clergy, traditon doesn’t mean much. And while Catholicism is much bigger size doesn’t imply fidelity. None of this will be stemmed without a serious across the board implementation of church discipline.
Well, you’ve made the bigtime. Andrew Sullivan of “Christianist” fame < href=”http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/a-coming-evange.html” quotes you on his blog.
“…the next generation of competent workers is coming out of homeschooling and private Christian schools. It’s also impossible to ignore that public education is grossly inferior in educating disadvantaged children.”
Surely you must be kidding. Have you *seen* “Jesus Camp”? This is competence?
- A former fundamentalist, public school educated, lawyer in a top law firm in a godless liberal city
Oops.
Well, you’ve made the bigtime. Andrew Sullivan of “Christianist” fame < href=”http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/a-coming-evange.html” quotes you on his blog.
Overall a good piece, Michael. Your point about Evangelicals failing to pass on a legitimate faith and a vibrant theology is particularly poignant. Look at the Mormons, for example, as a counter; their middle schoolers people spend time in “seminary” (as they call it), learning the fundamentals of the LDS church. Evangelical middle schoolers go to a church with Xboxes hooked up and hang out. And Evangelical theological thought has tended to be on the shallower end, especially as one gets closer to the Fundamentalist wings. As a friend of mine from the Duke Religion Department recently said (from experience): “Evangelical seminaries are breeding grounds for either high-church converts or atheists.” This has been a developing problem for some time, and most of the Evangelical world is completely blinded to its ineffectiveness and the fact that much of it is dying.
Not going to have a homosexuality debate on here.
Michael, I’m impressed!
Your article has garnered mentions on both Stand Firm and GetReligion!
You have the fame now, can the fortune be far behind?
Wow, Ingrid linked to it. You must be on to something.
First, I think your discussion is very thought provoking. I also do not disagree with the primary premise about evangelicals getting way too involved in politics. Point well made. But it seems the article is taking extreme positions taken by many most visible as evangelicals to condemn all evangelicals. In this sense, I found it to paint with way too broad a brush. There are not only 3 types of evangelical churches, with the clear implication that none of them are capturing the essence of the spreading the true gospel and doing Kingdom work. I also would argue that these trends of which you speak provide a great opportunity for those churches (whether there are a few or a lot is a matter of reasonable debate) truly doing Acts 1-2 work to once again be at the forefront of the evangelical movement and once again be the “face” of it, as it should be.
@Paul: “Surely you must be kidding. Have you *seen* “Jesus Camp”? This is competence?”
- heh, reminds me of the stories I’ve heard from Baptist friends (and an experience I had at a Bible College) of students doing degrees in Theology who hadn’t even heard of people like Origen, Tertullian, or St. Augustine, let alone read them.
Evangelicals are going to be just fine. We are on the brink of rebirth not collapse. Or, perhapse, reformation instead of collapse. I am non-denominational. Our church has, in four years, grown from a house to roughly 700 members every Sunday. Hardly a 50% collapse. I live in a college town.
We have thriving small group system.
I am part of the intercessory team, and we pray each Sunday that God’s will would be done in our service.
I and another member have just started reading AW Tozer’s Knowledge of the Holy. AWESOME. Hopefully it will become a Sunday school class.
Finally, evangelicasl (at least non-denom) derive their strength and vitality from a personal relationship with God. When we truly impact society it is not through a centralized church system, but through many individual doing their best to lead a life pleasing to God. Thus, certain trends and “lack of leadership” are useless monikers as they try to measure what does not exist
I linked to your article through Yahoo! news. Thank you. You have articulated what I have been feeling for quite a long time. I participated in the Evangelism Explosion program in the early to mid-80’s and have been estranged from the church for more than a decade. The Church of my youth, which taught me forgiveness, compassion, understanding, and spreading the Gospel of Jesus by allowing a Christ-filled life to lead by example is no longer. Witnessing in order to bring new Christians into to the fold for no gain but for the sole purpose of their benefit to be able experience the wondrous grace of God has lost its direction. As I meet many Christians and watch them publicly, particularly this last year, I see only self-righteous indignation, hatred and political motivation. I see no evidence of a Christ-lead life. Quite frankly, I hope you may be right. Those real Christians left may have to start anew. But hey, twelve did in the beginning.
I look forward to the time when religion again refers to a person’s personal relationship with their God and gets out of the public arena. If someone lives a good, loving life, people will notice and that’s all the witness anyone needs.
Went to Christian schools and public. Christian and home schools benefit from the lower class size and individual attention. Public schools generally have a better curriculum and wider range of subjects. My personal experience, I’m sure others vary.
Philippians 1:28,29 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation,and that from God. For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake…
1Peter 4:1,2 …since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.
The Bible is full of examples of how God allows the persecution of His people to spread the Gospel and grow His body. Look to China for a modern example of this at work.
Blessings,
matthew
There has been a growing movement over the last decade of people who love Jesus Christ and have accepted Him as Lord and Savior who no longer attend ANY church.
Out of Church Christians have been growing steadily due to the abuses and power-plays of man inside the brick-and-mortar church organizations. While some may opt for home-church settings, many more are going it alone with their families.
It is hard to justify giving money to a building that runs a great ’show’ but doesn’t feed, clothe, educate, or provide transformative moments for those who need it.
We unplugged from Church structure over a year ago, and are meeting with a group of like-minded fellow-travelers, seeking God and sharing Christ whenever and wherever we can.
Most of the out-of-church Christians I’ve met are some of the most theologically-grounded, and passionate followers of Christ I’ve come across.
I think the coming collapse you describe will only accelerate such a trend.
Common Reader,
“It doesn’t matter what the numbers are – the people who got the superior education will be the ones doing the professional and bureaucratic work.”
I’m not sure where you live, but go to any of the major metropolitan areas in the U.S. and check out the demographics of highly educated and highly skilled workers; or just open the phone book and take a look under Physicians. You’ll find that these positions are being filled, not by Christian school graduates, but by highly educated immigrants… which is just another piece to the puzzle of that this survey points to.
Bobby Metzinger writes:
“An ecumenical council should be spearheaded by the Catholic bishops in the United States to address the worries of our protestant brothers and sisters and how we can stand together.”
Already we have a power play by a Catholic! I am utterly shocked. Once again, we see a common trait of a Catholic offering ‘Catholic’ leadership with zero evidence of an outward consistent pattern of Gospel behavior.
Sex scandals, greed, gargantuan wealth from art and the idolatrous selling of idols, pagan influence, changing the Ten Commandments, and the denigration of Christ under the supremacy of Mary. Is this to be the armor bearer of a revolution from darkness to light?
We are toast as a Country if we continue to convolute the Gospel of Christ only to perch up the power of man and our own synthetic religious institutions as some vicarious way to God and His grace.
You Sir have to climb to the summit of this prolific article before you entrench unmerited Catholic leadership at the vanguard of America’s ‘hopeful salvation’. What is happening to America is not rooted in flesh and blood and already flesh and blood power plays are taking root.
Have we not learned that the way that seems right to us only lead to destruction?
JAS,
Have you read anything by Mark Noll, such as “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind”? He’s of a similar opinion as you.
I can verify what you are saying, just compare the education of Catholic Deacons and Baptist Deacons.
I do find the situation very sad.
*Can you explain to me how Christian schools are going to lose status when public education is failing?*
It’s not failing. It’s fine.
*It’s pretty observable that the next generation of competent workers is coming out of homeschooling and private Christian schools.*
No it isn’t.
*It’s also impossible to ignore that public education is grossly inferior in educating disadvantaged children.*
Actually it’s pretty easily possible to ignore it, given that it isn’t true.
*And then there’s demographics which you seem to be ignoring completely – people who are anti-Christian in the way you describe just don’t have children.*
Oh yes they/we do!
*So we’re going to have a generation where the bulk of the middle class was educated in Christian institutions*
No we aren’t.
*and the bulk of the population as a whole comes from Christian homes.*
No we won’t.
*And these people are going to help dismantle evangelicalism? Yeah I’m not seeing it.*
No, I’m not surprised.
The government is posing greater threats to the Body of Christ every day. “Obama plans to remove ‘conscience clause’ for health-care personnel” is typical of the headlines we are seeing these days that proclaim the frontal attack on Christians, as well as people of other faiths who honor life as a gift from God.
Great posts here, will defintely add to my blog roll. http://simmerings.blogspot.com/
*It doesn’t matter what the numbers are – the people who got the superior education will be the ones doing the professional and bureaucratic work. They will have more prestige and set the tone for people wanting to improve themselves. They will be overwhelmingly the products of Catholic schools, Christian academies, and homeschooling – and if we continue having affirmative action this will be even more true, because public school fails black and Latino children the worst.*
This is the funniest thing I have ever read a–I assume–adult human being say.
I would need more fingers and toes than I now possess to count off the number of scientists and engineers I know who are out-and-out atheists. And when I say “I know” I don’t mean “and I’ve read their books”, I mean I know them personally because I work at a college of engineering. Just to be going on with, there’s my atheist wife, PhD in polymer engineering. Product of the public school system.
Oh and the ones who aren’t atheists? They’re Hindus and Muslims from South Asia and the Middle East. Or they’re Buddhist/Confucianists from South Korea. Or Buddhists/Shinto from Japan.
The products of Christian academies don’t generally get admission as undergraduates here, much less become people capable of “doing the professional and bureaucratic work”.
Your comment near the end of your article is a clarion call to ecumenism.
“…the movement to create a new evangelicalism that learns from the past and listens more carefully …”
Evangelicalism will fail because it is not rooted physically to Jesus Christ, the physical manifestation of the Almighty.
Evangelicalism ignored Christ’s teaching that we are to “build on the rock and the storms will have no effect.” That is why it is failing.
New this and new that are all doomed to fail. The only sure path is through Catholicism.
“without me you can do nothing”
@J
Can you site any facts? Can you show any studies where public education has done more to improve underprivledged students more than homeschooling? Please you facts and reasons.
“J”: Thanks for dropping the language so I could print your comments. You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
The tiny sliver of Christian schoolers making it into the academic and scientific world ought to convince someone that there is something wrong with us on these issues. But we are the fish in the fishbowl. What world? Where?
I am involved in Christian ed and the issue of the sciences is the elephant in the room.