Comments on: The Monk and the Abbot http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Ragamuffin http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300422 Ragamuffin Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:09:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300422 That is a gorgeous church. I long for such an inspiring space. Yes, I know God can meet me anywhere. That doesn't mean He didn't create me to appreciate beauty and to note when things look appropriate for their stated purpose. That is a gorgeous church. I long for such an inspiring space. Yes, I know God can meet me anywhere. That doesn’t mean He didn’t create me to appreciate beauty and to note when things look appropriate for their stated purpose.

]]> By: Giovanni http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300302 Giovanni Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:54:45 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300302 This church could use some railings. This church could use some railings.

]]> By: Giovanni http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300244 Giovanni Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:24:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300244 I agree that is one beautiful Church, I am suprised the High Altar still there and not in the basement. Vatican II is not what killed our Churches it was the people that implemented Vatican II that did that. Thankfuly the reform of the reform is currently being implemented by B16 so we can recapture that which was lost. I agree that is one beautiful Church, I am suprised the High Altar still there and not in the basement.

Vatican II is not what killed our Churches it was the people that implemented Vatican II that did that. Thankfuly the reform of the reform is currently being implemented by B16 so we can recapture that which was lost.

]]> By: Mike http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300123 Mike Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:31:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300123 No one said worship spaces have to be ornate to be conducive to worship. However, for me, it's gotta be something different than an "auditorium" or "worship center" in the multipurpose big box. And, as far as expense, I'd much rather see us spend money on a truly excellent sanctuary with architectural integrity than pour it into theatre lighting, sound and video equipment, and so on, ad absurdum. Worship is worth expense. Entertainment is not. No one said worship spaces have to be ornate to be conducive to worship. However, for me, it’s gotta be something different than an “auditorium” or “worship center” in the multipurpose big box. And, as far as expense, I’d much rather see us spend money on a truly excellent sanctuary with architectural integrity than pour it into theatre lighting, sound and video equipment, and so on, ad absurdum. Worship is worth expense. Entertainment is not.

]]> By: dumb ox http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300113 dumb ox Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:08:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300113 Beauty doesn't have to be expensive - at least not compared to the $10k+ (at least!) most churches shell out for a sound system that can handle the kickin' worship band (that may just cover the sound board). What I mean by beauty isn't just quality but meaning and symbolism. There is a need for religious symbols which proclaim the mysteries of the faith to this generation and connect us to our Christian heritage. That probably won't be accomplished through gothic architecture. I agree with Mike; protestants can do this. Alan makes a good point; I heard that the Church of England shells out millions of dollars each year on repairs to the old gothic cathedrals that are now mostly empty museums. I would agree that this is no time for unnecessary ornateness. The best Christian symbolism that people might need to see in the not so distant future might be best displayed by churches sending everyone home with a bag of groceries (no, I'm not optimistic about the bail-out). I have heard many people compare current events to 9/11. The church may have another rare opportunity to reach people who are disarmed of materialism and self-centeredness and who want something real, that life means more than retirement accounts and nice houses. I think they will be looking for something more than worshiptainment and blinking-teeth theology. This could be post-evangelicalism's finest hour. Beauty doesn’t have to be expensive – at least not compared to the $10k+ (at least!) most churches shell out for a sound system that can handle the kickin’ worship band (that may just cover the sound board). What I mean by beauty isn’t just quality but meaning and symbolism. There is a need for religious symbols which proclaim the mysteries of the faith to this generation and connect us to our Christian heritage. That probably won’t be accomplished through gothic architecture. I agree with Mike; protestants can do this.

Alan makes a good point; I heard that the Church of England shells out millions of dollars each year on repairs to the old gothic cathedrals that are now mostly empty museums. I would agree that this is no time for unnecessary ornateness. The best Christian symbolism that people might need to see in the not so distant future might be best displayed by churches sending everyone home with a bag of groceries (no, I’m not optimistic about the bail-out).

I have heard many people compare current events to 9/11. The church may have another rare opportunity to reach people who are disarmed of materialism and self-centeredness and who want something real, that life means more than retirement accounts and nice houses. I think they will be looking for something more than worshiptainment and blinking-teeth theology. This could be post-evangelicalism’s finest hour.

]]> By: + Alan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300087 + Alan Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:28:31 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300087 Crap! Listen, I've been straight up Keith Greened back in the college days - that plus some li'll cartoon Chick-ness - mmm, mmm good, er sumpm like 'at. Crap! Listen, I’ve been straight up Keith Greened back in the college days – that plus some li’ll cartoon Chick-ness – mmm, mmm good, er sumpm like ‘at.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300074 iMonk Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:02:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300074 I meant to give you some anti-Catholic Chick tracts. Can't believe I forgot them. I meant to give you some anti-Catholic Chick tracts. Can’t believe I forgot them.

]]> By: + Alan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300064 + Alan Sun, 05 Oct 2008 02:41:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300064 Well - Lordy. You never know what'll turn into a discussion I suppose. While we're at it - I love these old-school Catholic worship spaces. I always have. I love the smell of them, the old, creaky, wooden pews. I love all the symbolism woven into the walls, windows, pillars, etc. BUT, not everyone is drawn in by such things. For some, they are distractions from worship. I think that's a shame, but I know it's true. Of course there is the fact that building beautiful spaces like this is expensive. It can be very expensive and a lot of people, Protestant and Catholic, have issues with that. There's a balance in there for sure, somewhere. Hey, it wasn't cheap, I'm sure, but I also love the space at Gethsemani Abbey, which is very stark in comparison. Anyway, it was good hangin' out yesterday man. I'm glad we got to spend time together. Peace to you and Denise. Well – Lordy. You never know what’ll turn into a discussion I suppose.

While we’re at it – I love these old-school Catholic worship spaces. I always have. I love the smell of them, the old, creaky, wooden pews. I love all the symbolism woven into the walls, windows, pillars, etc. BUT, not everyone is drawn in by such things. For some, they are distractions from worship. I think that’s a shame, but I know it’s true.

Of course there is the fact that building beautiful spaces like this is expensive. It can be very expensive and a lot of people, Protestant and Catholic, have issues with that. There’s a balance in there for sure, somewhere. Hey, it wasn’t cheap, I’m sure, but I also love the space at Gethsemani Abbey, which is very stark in comparison.

Anyway, it was good hangin’ out yesterday man. I’m glad we got to spend time together. Peace to you and Denise.

]]> By: Mike http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-300031 Mike Sun, 05 Oct 2008 00:55:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-300031 MS, you are exactly right, there are loads of Protestant possibilities in worship architecture. Do you or anyone else know anyone who is exploring them and perhaps tapping in to a new move of the Spirit in this regard? MS, you are exactly right, there are loads of Protestant possibilities in worship architecture. Do you or anyone else know anyone who is exploring them and perhaps tapping in to a new move of the Spirit in this regard?

]]> By: JCL http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot/comment-page-1#comment-299880 JCL Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:13:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-monk-and-the-abbot#comment-299880 Good to see a human face to identify with the "internet monk", and a smiling one at that. I've been reading this blog pretty steadily since like 2001 or 2002, can't remember now exactly. I still have a download on my computer of something you wrote called, "Those magnificent young men in their pastoring machines." (I've now read nearly all of Peterson's books too.) I printed up a story you wrote about a deacon you saw coming out of a liquor store, and gave it to my wife to read. We were dealing with the very same issue at that time. JCL Good to see a human face to identify with the “internet monk”, and a smiling one at that. I’ve been reading this blog pretty steadily since like 2001 or 2002, can’t remember now exactly. I still have a download on my computer of something you wrote called, “Those magnificent young men in their pastoring machines.” (I’ve now read nearly all of Peterson’s books too.) I printed up a story you wrote about a deacon you saw coming out of a liquor store, and gave it to my wife to read. We were dealing with the very same issue at that time.

JCL

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