Comments on: The Missing Voice of the Christian Counter-Culture http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Craig Detweiler http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-2#comment-313361 Craig Detweiler Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:44:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-313361 Micheal, Thanks for these challenging words. There are pockets of protest. But rather than addressing things politically, their art takes traffics in absurdity. They emphasize beauty as a way to contrast the ugliness of so much "Jesus Junk." So record labels like Asthmatic Kitty and artists like Sufjan Stevens, the Danielson Family, Rosie Thomas, David Bazan and Over the Rhine are going with either extravagant theatricality or ultra stripped down simplicity as a form of protest music. The same is starting to happen in film. Alternative documentaries of protest made in the past year include, The Ordinary Radicals, Call + Response, Lord Save Us From Your Followers, and my own, Purple State of Mind. Each is small, indie outsider art. Micheal,

Thanks for these challenging words. There are pockets of protest.
But rather than addressing things politically, their art takes traffics in absurdity. They emphasize beauty as a way to contrast the ugliness of so much “Jesus Junk.” So record labels like Asthmatic Kitty and artists like
Sufjan Stevens, the Danielson Family, Rosie Thomas, David Bazan and Over the Rhine are going with either extravagant theatricality or ultra stripped down simplicity as a form of protest music.

The same is starting to happen in film. Alternative documentaries of protest made in the past year include, The Ordinary Radicals, Call + Response, Lord Save Us From Your Followers, and my own, Purple State of Mind. Each is small, indie outsider art.

]]> By: CJ http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-2#comment-313078 CJ Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:09:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-313078 Michael, Thank you SO MUCH for this blog. No one has ever articulated the way I feel about modern day Christianity than this blog has. I blog about this stuff all the time @ www.conversantlife.com/cjcasciotta.My latest post links back to this one because I think it communicates some of these points so well. Thanks again for your thoughts and articulation. PS. I'm huge Derek Webb, Sara Groves, and obvious Bob Dylan fan Michael,
Thank you SO MUCH for this blog. No one has ever articulated the way I feel about modern day Christianity than this blog has. I blog about this stuff all the time @ http://www.conversantlife.com/cjcasciotta.My latest post links back to this one because I think it communicates some of these points so well. Thanks again for your thoughts and articulation.

PS. I’m huge Derek Webb, Sara Groves, and obvious Bob Dylan fan

]]> By: tim http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-302960 tim Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:01:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-302960 what do you do when you know that you should be passionate about these things, but you aren't? what do you do when you actually see the apathy, and know that it's wrong? what do you do when you know that you should be passionate about these things, but you aren’t? what do you do when you actually see the apathy, and know that it’s wrong?

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-299162 Headless Unicorn Guy Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:05:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-299162 <i>Isn’t Larry Norman the guy who did Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music?</i> -- Aliasmoi IMonk's tribute essay on Larry Norman: <a href="http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/L/larry.html" rel="nofollow">So Long Ago, when CCM Wasn't Awful</a>. Isn’t Larry Norman the guy who did Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music? — Aliasmoi

IMonk’s tribute essay on Larry Norman:
So Long Ago, when CCM Wasn’t Awful.

]]> By: Dan V http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-294442 Dan V Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:44:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-294442 "Only Visiting This Planet", along with Keith Green's "No Compromise" and John Michael Talbot's "The New Earth" completely rocked my worldview, changing my theology and the course of my life. There's tremendous power in music, and I think Christians need to use it to help change the world. A couple of popular artists who are doing so are Todd Agnew and Ten Shekel Shirt. Agnew's song, "My Jesus" is in your face, with lyrics like: Blessed are the poor in spirit Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins He spent His time with thieves and sluts and liars He loved the poor and accosted the rich So which one do you want to be? Amazingly, this song got a lot of Christian radio airplay - wonder if anyone listened? Ten Shekel Shirt's leader, Lamont Hiebert, is actively combatting worldwide child sex slavery, and uses his music to help address the problem. “Only Visiting This Planet”, along with Keith Green’s “No Compromise” and John Michael Talbot’s “The New Earth” completely rocked my worldview, changing my theology and the course of my life. There’s tremendous power in music, and I think Christians need to use it to help change the world. A couple of popular artists who are doing so are Todd Agnew and Ten Shekel Shirt. Agnew’s song, “My Jesus” is in your face, with lyrics like:

Blessed are the poor in spirit
Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness
Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand
Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins
He spent His time with thieves and sluts and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the rich
So which one do you want to be?

Amazingly, this song got a lot of Christian radio airplay – wonder if anyone listened?

Ten Shekel Shirt’s leader, Lamont Hiebert, is actively combatting worldwide child sex slavery, and uses his music to help address the problem.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-294145 Andrew Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:31:46 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-294145 Michael, over the last few days I've been reading some of your posts and I just wanted to write and say thanks.. A few years back I felt spiritually motivated to work amongst the poor and oppressed and started doing social work in inner city Chicago. As my career and life have progressed I feel increasingly alienated from (and less and less welcome within) what was once my evangelical "home" and instead am always walking a very fine line between a weak and strained belief and total disgust and rejection of Christianity and the Church. Sometimes it's reading a post like this one or hearing about your own struggles within the SBC that give me hope (albeit pretty faint) that God is still out there for me and that in spite of the weakness of my own faith and my very worldly cynicism at what I see every day, I can still be bringing light into some of the dark places and situations I encounter every day knowing that I'm trying to be right where Jesus would be. I'm not usually so touchy-feely, so I'll leave it at that, but I jsut wanted to say thanks. Michael, over the last few days I’ve been reading some of your posts and I just wanted to write and say thanks.. A few years back I felt spiritually motivated to work amongst the poor and oppressed and started doing social work in inner city Chicago. As my career and life have progressed I feel increasingly alienated from (and less and less welcome within) what was once my evangelical “home” and instead am always walking a very fine line between a weak and strained belief and total disgust and rejection of Christianity and the Church. Sometimes it’s reading a post like this one or hearing about your own struggles within the SBC that give me hope (albeit pretty faint) that God is still out there for me and that in spite of the weakness of my own faith and my very worldly cynicism at what I see every day, I can still be bringing light into some of the dark places and situations I encounter every day knowing that I’m trying to be right where Jesus would be. I’m not usually so touchy-feely, so I’ll leave it at that, but I jsut wanted to say thanks.

]]> By: George C http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-294087 George C Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:58:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-294087 I just want to make it clear that I was not picking on Derrek Webb or Caedmon's Call. My point is that their stuff was very much for an exclusively christian audience (by their own admission). I had most of their cds (the last one was 40 Acres) and saw them live twice. They are very talented and helpful to a certain segment of the population and their songs were not Jesus is my boyfriend stuff, but their stuff was far from socilaly conscious type stuff and for the most part even farther from dealing with subjects in a way that those outside of western christianity could understand or relate to without explaination. There is nothing wrong with recognizing that a certain group of people are your adience and speaking specificly to them, but don't be fooled into thinking that anyone outside the church is going to ever listen, other than the kids tricked into attending concerts by their friends at the local youth group. I am not saying that Derrek Webb was compromising or anything. My point is just that he has the financial safety of his past to make it easier to take the risks he does now. If you are not going to be a heathen and play to the thoughtless party crowd or be "church friendly" and play to the CCM crowd, you have a rough road ahead. I just want to make it clear that I was not picking on Derrek Webb or Caedmon’s Call.

My point is that their stuff was very much for an exclusively christian audience (by their own admission). I had most of their cds (the last one was 40 Acres) and saw them live twice.

They are very talented and helpful to a certain segment of the population and their songs were not Jesus is my boyfriend stuff, but their stuff was far from socilaly conscious type stuff and for the most part even farther from dealing with subjects in a way that those outside of western christianity could understand or relate to without explaination.

There is nothing wrong with recognizing that a certain group of people are your adience and speaking specificly to them, but don’t be fooled into thinking that anyone outside the church is going to ever listen, other than the kids tricked into attending concerts by their friends at the local youth group.

I am not saying that Derrek Webb was compromising or anything. My point is just that he has the financial safety of his past to make it easier to take the risks he does now. If you are not going to be a heathen and play to the thoughtless party crowd or be “church friendly” and play to the CCM crowd, you have a rough road ahead.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-294063 iMonk Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:41:44 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-294063 Earlier in this thread, Mike Morrell said that I had once claimed to be wary of Wright's articulation of the Gospel. That didn't sound exactly right, so I re-read the review he was citing. Here's the paragraph Mike: ><em>At times, I wondered if Martoia understood what a fundamental upheaval it causes when you begin de-emphasizing a gospel about going to heaven, and emphasizing a gospel with social and political meaning alongside its personal eschatology. Does he realize how many of these Wrightian insights sound to fundamentalists and the truly reformed? Do these renovations of traditional concepts bring more light and truth, or do they, as critics claim, sell out the truth for a bowl of cultural relevance?</em> I was saying that Wright's articulation of the Gospek comes off pretty strange to some conservative evangelicals. I've always found him to be conservative and orthodox, but demanding and provocative. And some of his eschatological readings of texts are very difficult. But I don't think I was ever wary of Wright. I was wondering if the author realized how wary other were of Wright's version. peace MS P.S. If I can, I will be reviewing Saving Paradise soon. I wish gnostics would write shorter books. Earlier in this thread, Mike Morrell said that I had once claimed to be wary of Wright’s articulation of the Gospel. That didn’t sound exactly right, so I re-read the review he was citing. Here’s the paragraph Mike:

>At times, I wondered if Martoia understood what a fundamental upheaval it causes when you begin de-emphasizing a gospel about going to heaven, and emphasizing a gospel with social and political meaning alongside its personal eschatology. Does he realize how many of these Wrightian insights sound to fundamentalists and the truly reformed? Do these renovations of traditional concepts bring more light and truth, or do they, as critics claim, sell out the truth for a bowl of cultural relevance?

I was saying that Wright’s articulation of the Gospek comes off pretty strange to some conservative evangelicals. I’ve always found him to be conservative and orthodox, but demanding and provocative. And some of his eschatological readings of texts are very difficult. But I don’t think I was ever wary of Wright. I was wondering if the author realized how wary other were of Wright’s version.

peace

MS

P.S. If I can, I will be reviewing Saving Paradise soon. I wish gnostics would write shorter books.

]]> By: Kate http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-294024 Kate Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:49:49 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-294024 Bob Bennet writes the kind of songs that you are talking about. Bob Bennet writes the kind of songs that you are talking about.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture/comment-page-1#comment-293874 iMonk Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:47:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-missing-voice-of-the-christian-counter-culture#comment-293874 Norman's album "Only Visiting This Planet" was the high point of CCM. Norman’s album “Only Visiting This Planet” was the high point of CCM.

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