Comments on: The Jesus Disconnect (3): Kingdom, Discipleship and Cross http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:14:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jenny http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-460774 Jenny Wed, 20 May 2009 14:53:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-460774 Thanks for the answer, I think I see what you're saying is that though the cross/rez is primary and "proves" who Jesus is, that we as believers need to look at ALL of him (obviously we won't be able to know ALL of him during this life, of course) instead of looking at pieces of him. Thanks again and BTW, I love reading about the Kingdom aspects of Jesus to balance out those "God is my friend" songs that are jumbled in my head. Thanks for the answer, I think I see what you’re saying is that though the cross/rez is primary and “proves” who Jesus is, that we as believers need to look at ALL of him (obviously we won’t be able to know ALL of him during this life, of course) instead of looking at pieces of him. Thanks again and BTW, I love reading about the Kingdom aspects of Jesus to balance out those “God is my friend” songs that are jumbled in my head.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-460682 iMonk Wed, 20 May 2009 11:52:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-460682 The cross/rez is primary. That's clearly why Jesus did the "Messianic Secret" business, i.e. doing miracles but telling people to not say anything. He even does this in Mark 8 when Peter correctly identifies him. The cross/rez is the center of the Gospel, but the focus of the Christian is on Jesus as mediator entirely, i.e. as a whole, not in parts. The coming of the Spirit produces the articulation of the Gospel in Acts: A crucified and Risen king who has brought a new Kingdom into history. The cross/rez is primary. That’s clearly why Jesus did the “Messianic Secret” business, i.e. doing miracles but telling people to not say anything. He even does this in Mark 8 when Peter correctly identifies him. The cross/rez is the center of the Gospel, but the focus of the Christian is on Jesus as mediator entirely, i.e. as a whole, not in parts.

The coming of the Spirit produces the articulation of the Gospel in Acts: A crucified and Risen king who has brought a new Kingdom into history.

]]> By: Jenny http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459708 Jenny Tue, 19 May 2009 14:39:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459708 Hope I'm not too late for a question: "There is simply no way that an honest examination of the Gospels can make the material on Kingdom and discipleship to be secondary to the focus on the cross." I agree with you (in my limited knowledge). But I was wondering if this means that a. the cross is secondary b. they are equal, or c. it doesn't matter what percentage each "side" should have Just wondering. Ricky - I can easily fall into the "extreme either/or" trap, too. (this question is probably an example of it!) Hope I’m not too late for a question:
“There is simply no way that an honest examination of the Gospels can make the material on Kingdom and discipleship to be secondary to the focus on the cross.” I agree with you (in my limited knowledge). But I was wondering if this means that

a. the cross is secondary
b. they are equal, or
c. it doesn’t matter what percentage each “side” should have

Just wondering.

Ricky – I can easily fall into the “extreme either/or” trap, too. (this question is probably an example of it!)

]]> By: Caffeinated Thoughts http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459660 Caffeinated Thoughts Tue, 19 May 2009 13:53:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459660 <strong>Latte Links (5/19)...</strong> 1.  Craig Robinson - “At The Intersection of Faith and Politics” Ever since the Iowa Supreme Court issued decision allowing gay marriage in Iowa, my faith has been intertwined with my politics. To be honest, the two have been a jumbled mess ... Latte Links (5/19)…

1.  Craig Robinson – “At The Intersection of Faith and Politics”
Ever since the Iowa Supreme Court issued decision allowing gay marriage in Iowa, my faith has been intertwined with my politics. To be honest, the two have been a jumbled mess …

]]> By: Ricky H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459477 Ricky H Tue, 19 May 2009 09:04:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459477 Actually, I should have said, <i>Jesus-Shaped Spirituality</i> Sorry about that. Actually, I should have said, Jesus-Shaped Spirituality

Sorry about that.

]]> By: Ricky H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459473 Ricky H Tue, 19 May 2009 09:00:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459473 Great series of posts. The lack of balance in the lives of far too many Christians (myself included) has been a source of great frustration for me. Just a quick read through the comments on several of your posts over the last couple of weeks, shows just how out of balance American Christians are. Everything is an extreme either/or. And I've discovered that appeals for more grace, more balance, in the ways people live out their faith and engage one another, are usually met with a barrage of stones from both sides. It's amazing, the lengths to which people will go, to argue that the Bible doesn't really mean what it says, Jesus didn't really say what he said, this or that passage is no longer relevant. It's very disheartening. I know others who are wrestling with the same sense of frustration. So, hopefully, there is a hunger for what you've called a <i>Jesus-Shaped Christianity</i> among enough people to make a difference. God bless. Great series of posts.

The lack of balance in the lives of far too many Christians (myself included) has been a source of great frustration for me. Just a quick read through the comments on several of your posts over the last couple of weeks, shows just how out of balance American Christians are.

Everything is an extreme either/or. And I’ve discovered that appeals for more grace, more balance, in the ways people live out their faith and engage one another, are usually met with a barrage of stones from both sides.

It’s amazing, the lengths to which people will go, to argue that the Bible doesn’t really mean what it says, Jesus didn’t really say what he said, this or that passage is no longer relevant. It’s very disheartening.

I know others who are wrestling with the same sense of frustration. So, hopefully, there is a hunger for what you’ve called a Jesus-Shaped Christianity among enough people to make a difference.

God bless.

]]> By: Phil M http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459269 Phil M Tue, 19 May 2009 03:44:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459269 IM: You are right, and I didn't mean to be critical. I'm reading NT Wright's "Surprised By Hope" at the same time as following Scott McKight's series on Kingdom Gospel. The combination is having a very positive (IMO) effect on my view of the Gospel. So I guess I read into your post my own shift in thinking away from the individualistic view of the Gospel that I was taught, towards the Kingdom Gospel of community. Apologies. IM: You are right, and I didn’t mean to be critical. I’m reading NT Wright’s “Surprised By Hope” at the same time as following Scott McKight’s series on Kingdom Gospel. The combination is having a very positive (IMO) effect on my view of the Gospel.

So I guess I read into your post my own shift in thinking away from the individualistic view of the Gospel that I was taught, towards the Kingdom Gospel of community. Apologies.

]]> By: ProdigalSarah http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459266 ProdigalSarah Tue, 19 May 2009 03:34:40 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459266 Luke 17: 21 “...the kingdom of God is within you.” (or among you) Luke 17: 21 “…the kingdom of God is within you.” (or among you)

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459263 iMonk Tue, 19 May 2009 03:29:16 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459263 Frank: It's the same Gospel, but there are significant differences in the articulation depending on where you want to draw the texts. If the brother thinks the Gospels are different, then he should read the first paragraph of Romans very closely. If someone things the articulations of Paul and the synoptics are identical on this, they are, in my view, overlooking some fairly obvious differents in vocabulary, logic, audience, use of the OT, etc. peace ms Frank: It’s the same Gospel, but there are significant differences in the articulation depending on where you want to draw the texts. If the brother thinks the Gospels are different, then he should read the first paragraph of Romans very closely. If someone things the articulations of Paul and the synoptics are identical on this, they are, in my view, overlooking some fairly obvious differents in vocabulary, logic, audience, use of the OT, etc.

peace

ms

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-jesus-disconnect-3-kingdom-discipleship-and-cross/comment-page-1#comment-459260 iMonk Tue, 19 May 2009 03:26:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3198#comment-459260 Phil M: I've written dozens of posts on community, including some on the page right now. It's a matter of balance, but today has been the most imbalanced discussion I can remember on here. Say discipleship and someone yells justification. Say sanctification and someone says I'm preaching salvation by works. Very frustrating. The gospel addresses individuals and creates community. I have to address the Gospel to hundreds of lost people in my ministry. I invite them to Christ and into the community around him. It's both/and and I don't accept that I haven't made that clear. What is an "individualistic" kingdom anyway? peace ms Phil M:

I’ve written dozens of posts on community, including some on the page right now.

It’s a matter of balance, but today has been the most imbalanced discussion I can remember on here. Say discipleship and someone yells justification. Say sanctification and someone says I’m preaching salvation by works.

Very frustrating. The gospel addresses individuals and creates community. I have to address the Gospel to hundreds of lost people in my ministry. I invite them to Christ and into the community around him. It’s both/and and I don’t accept that I haven’t made that clear.

What is an “individualistic” kingdom anyway?

peace

ms

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