<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The iMonk Weekend File: 1/29/05</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:36:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-713</guid>
		<description>My own $0.02 on these issues...

1) John MacArthur and the Puritans.  I agree that some of MacArthur&#039;s material on the subject of faith and obedience has been confused.  The problem is that America is so awash in easy-believism that people like MacArthur (and others) who take the church&#039;s call to holiness seriously get frustrated, and fall back on the &quot;quick and easy path&quot; to instil holiness... preach the Law.  Of course, the problem is that doesn&#039;t work in all cases.  Striking a balance between Gospel and Law (as Luther pointed out) is a touchy thing, and probably best done on a personal/pastoral, or at most congregational, level.  Aim much higher than that and you really start confusing the wheat and the tares.  And going to the Puritans in this matter will *not* help, as their confusion of the Mosaic Covenant with the New Covenant leaves them open to all kinds of pitfalls in this regard.

2) Where is the Kingdom?  The real Achilles heel of all earthly kingdom models is that they have to, by definition, downplay the impact of depravity on human nature.  There&#039;s a reason God kicked Adam and Eve out of His earthly kingdom, a reason Israel failed time and time again, a reason *every* civilization falls sooner or later - and that reason is human depravity. A holy kingdom cannot stand with unholy citizens. Thus... &quot;My Kingdom is not of this earth.&quot;  Until the people of God (and the earth) are finally totally recreated into perfection, there will be no Kingdom on earth, in a political sense.  Islam (since it denies total depravity) has some excuse for not seeing this.  The Jews certainly have less. And postmillenialists and Theonomists have none.

3) Re: the postmodernist book.  There is a much-underutilized resource in the Christian tradition that goes a long way towards debunking both the skepticism of the postmodernists and the hyperrationality of the modernists.  Pascal&#039;s *Pensees*.  Combine them with Peter Kreeft&#039;s commentary *Christianity for Modern Pagans* (weeding out the bits of Catholic dogmatizing he throws in occasionally), and you have quite a read, and food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My own $0.02 on these issues&#8230;</p>
<p>1) John MacArthur and the Puritans.  I agree that some of MacArthur&#8217;s material on the subject of faith and obedience has been confused.  The problem is that America is so awash in easy-believism that people like MacArthur (and others) who take the church&#8217;s call to holiness seriously get frustrated, and fall back on the &#8220;quick and easy path&#8221; to instil holiness&#8230; preach the Law.  Of course, the problem is that doesn&#8217;t work in all cases.  Striking a balance between Gospel and Law (as Luther pointed out) is a touchy thing, and probably best done on a personal/pastoral, or at most congregational, level.  Aim much higher than that and you really start confusing the wheat and the tares.  And going to the Puritans in this matter will *not* help, as their confusion of the Mosaic Covenant with the New Covenant leaves them open to all kinds of pitfalls in this regard.</p>
<p>2) Where is the Kingdom?  The real Achilles heel of all earthly kingdom models is that they have to, by definition, downplay the impact of depravity on human nature.  There&#8217;s a reason God kicked Adam and Eve out of His earthly kingdom, a reason Israel failed time and time again, a reason *every* civilization falls sooner or later &#8211; and that reason is human depravity. A holy kingdom cannot stand with unholy citizens. Thus&#8230; &#8220;My Kingdom is not of this earth.&#8221;  Until the people of God (and the earth) are finally totally recreated into perfection, there will be no Kingdom on earth, in a political sense.  Islam (since it denies total depravity) has some excuse for not seeing this.  The Jews certainly have less. And postmillenialists and Theonomists have none.</p>
<p>3) Re: the postmodernist book.  There is a much-underutilized resource in the Christian tradition that goes a long way towards debunking both the skepticism of the postmodernists and the hyperrationality of the modernists.  Pascal&#8217;s *Pensees*.  Combine them with Peter Kreeft&#8217;s commentary *Christianity for Modern Pagans* (weeding out the bits of Catholic dogmatizing he throws in occasionally), and you have quite a read, and food for thought.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: imonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>imonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-714</guid>
		<description>I love that book! Used it here at OBI one year with a really gifted group of Advanced Bible kids. Good mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that book! Used it here at OBI one year with a really gifted group of Advanced Bible kids. Good mention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diane R</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-715</guid>
		<description>You always seem to hit right on about things that others do not..thank you for that::)

As for the Puritans, the Third Wave revivalists (Toronto, Brownsville,etc.) constantly claim Jonathan Edwards as their &quot;spiritual&quot; ancestor.  The laughable part is (if it wasn&#039;t so tragic)  Edwards preached a pretty Reformed message.
The Third Wavers are so far from that it is pathetic.  Edwards preached Christ.  I cannot remember the last time I even heard Christ&#039;s name mentioned among the Third Waver Charismatics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You always seem to hit right on about things that others do not..thank you for that::)</p>
<p>As for the Puritans, the Third Wave revivalists (Toronto, Brownsville,etc.) constantly claim Jonathan Edwards as their &#8220;spiritual&#8221; ancestor.  The laughable part is (if it wasn&#8217;t so tragic)  Edwards preached a pretty Reformed message.<br />
The Third Wavers are so far from that it is pathetic.  Edwards preached Christ.  I cannot remember the last time I even heard Christ&#8217;s name mentioned among the Third Waver Charismatics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Hinkle</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-716</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hinkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-716</guid>
		<description>Concerning commentaries on John--one that I found indispensible is the &quot;Social-Science Commentary on John&quot; by Malina and Rohrbaugh. You need other commentaries with it (like Raymond Brown&#039;s Anchor Bible commentary) but it gives a lot of excellent insight into the culture of the time, which is important in interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning commentaries on John&#8211;one that I found indispensible is the &#8220;Social-Science Commentary on John&#8221; by Malina and Rohrbaugh. You need other commentaries with it (like Raymond Brown&#8217;s Anchor Bible commentary) but it gives a lot of excellent insight into the culture of the time, which is important in interpretation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: imonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>imonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-717</guid>
		<description>i love brown, but i am not using him this time through. Witherington has a helpful commentary as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i love brown, but i am not using him this time through. Witherington has a helpful commentary as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. B. Caneday</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-718</link>
		<dc:creator>A. B. Caneday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-718</guid>
		<description>I have not read MacArthur&#039;s &quot;Hard to Believe,&quot; but I have friends who have. They have expressed the kind of disappointment you have voiced, but neither with the clarity or fullness you have given it. Friends have said that their reading of the book shows no indication of awareness of &quot;The Race Set Before Us.&quot; I would not publish without first engaging another book that has offered some critique of my ideas and beliefs. Why wouldn&#039;t MacArthur do the same?

The neo-Puritan resurgence among evangelicals is as disconcerting now as it was 20-30 years ago. As in all our readings, we need to engage the Puritans with critical assessment. We may learn much through the Puritans, but there are also many aspects about them that need to be tempered and qualified by Scripture. One is their tendency toward introspective faith that leads toward despair. Whenever faith turns inward it also looks away from Christ who is our only hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read MacArthur&#8217;s &#8220;Hard to Believe,&#8221; but I have friends who have. They have expressed the kind of disappointment you have voiced, but neither with the clarity or fullness you have given it. Friends have said that their reading of the book shows no indication of awareness of &#8220;The Race Set Before Us.&#8221; I would not publish without first engaging another book that has offered some critique of my ideas and beliefs. Why wouldn&#8217;t MacArthur do the same?</p>
<p>The neo-Puritan resurgence among evangelicals is as disconcerting now as it was 20-30 years ago. As in all our readings, we need to engage the Puritans with critical assessment. We may learn much through the Puritans, but there are also many aspects about them that need to be tempered and qualified by Scripture. One is their tendency toward introspective faith that leads toward despair. Whenever faith turns inward it also looks away from Christ who is our only hope.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-719</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-719</guid>
		<description>I found this at John MacArthur&#039;s website gty.org:

A Word of Clarification about Hard to Believe

One paragraph in Hard to Believe contains a glaring error that has the potential to mislead readers about the book&#039;s whole intent. The problematic passage is the opening paragraph of chapter 6 (page 93), which seems to suggest that salvation is the fruit of godly living. The truth is exactly the opposite.

The error was inadvertently introduced into the manuscript in the late stages of the editorial process, when (in order to simplify the book) four chapters were deleted from the original manuscript and one of the remaining chapters was severely abridged. John MacArthur approved the abridgments.

Apparently, however, in an effort to make a new transition that would smooth over the deletions, an editor involved in the process made significant revisions to the opening of chapter 6. Unfortunately, that change was not submitted to John for approval. We believe the error was an oversight, and not anyone&#039;s deliberate attempt to tamper with the book&#039;s theology. The result, however, severely muddled the message of the book.

A revision has been sent to the publisher for future editions of the book. In all subsequent printings, here is how the opening paragraph of chapter six will read (revisions are in bold):

    Don&#039;t believe anyone who says it&#039;s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God&#039;s Son His life, and it&#039;ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn&#039;t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith&#039;s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There&#039;s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic.


Phil Johnson
Executive Director
Grace to You</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this at John MacArthur&#8217;s website gty.org:</p>
<p>A Word of Clarification about Hard to Believe</p>
<p>One paragraph in Hard to Believe contains a glaring error that has the potential to mislead readers about the book&#8217;s whole intent. The problematic passage is the opening paragraph of chapter 6 (page 93), which seems to suggest that salvation is the fruit of godly living. The truth is exactly the opposite.</p>
<p>The error was inadvertently introduced into the manuscript in the late stages of the editorial process, when (in order to simplify the book) four chapters were deleted from the original manuscript and one of the remaining chapters was severely abridged. John MacArthur approved the abridgments.</p>
<p>Apparently, however, in an effort to make a new transition that would smooth over the deletions, an editor involved in the process made significant revisions to the opening of chapter 6. Unfortunately, that change was not submitted to John for approval. We believe the error was an oversight, and not anyone&#8217;s deliberate attempt to tamper with the book&#8217;s theology. The result, however, severely muddled the message of the book.</p>
<p>A revision has been sent to the publisher for future editions of the book. In all subsequent printings, here is how the opening paragraph of chapter six will read (revisions are in bold):</p>
<p>    Don&#8217;t believe anyone who says it&#8217;s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God&#8217;s Son His life, and it&#8217;ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn&#8217;t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith&#8217;s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There&#8217;s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic.</p>
<p>Phil Johnson<br />
Executive Director<br />
Grace to You</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: imonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>imonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-720</guid>
		<description>As an English teacher (AP IV) I have an opinion about what we are reading here, but these are men I really respect. I am just going to say that if this story were brought to me in my class I would be blinking and sipping my coffee rapidly.

Listen....the best route here is just to WRITE SOMETHING THAT DEFINITIVELY CLEARS THIS UP. It&#039;s a pattern, and Dr. Mac surely knows that no one of us who have benefitted from his ministry will care at all if he says &quot;I&#039;ve needed to gain a better understanding of this subject.&quot; He can be my pastor any day. I love the man, but it&#039;s just what we all go through as we grow. I listen to my old sermons....ugh. It&#039;s painful :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an English teacher (AP IV) I have an opinion about what we are reading here, but these are men I really respect. I am just going to say that if this story were brought to me in my class I would be blinking and sipping my coffee rapidly.</p>
<p>Listen&#8230;.the best route here is just to WRITE SOMETHING THAT DEFINITIVELY CLEARS THIS UP. It&#8217;s a pattern, and Dr. Mac surely knows that no one of us who have benefitted from his ministry will care at all if he says &#8220;I&#8217;ve needed to gain a better understanding of this subject.&#8221; He can be my pastor any day. I love the man, but it&#8217;s just what we all go through as we grow. I listen to my old sermons&#8230;.ugh. It&#8217;s painful <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-imonk-weekend-file-12905/comment-page-1#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/im.php/?p=107#comment-721</guid>
		<description>you know, i think there is enough bad things in this world to worry about and Joel Osteen isnt one of them, my husband turned his life over to JESUS CHRIST after listening to JOEL and this in itself is a miraculous thing. If JOel attracts the younger people and teaches them to be more positive and helpful etc, then i do not see the harm in that. If you dont like him turn the channel, put down the book. He was just on Larry King live and Larry likened his message to that of the great Billy Grahamn. Can you argue with that? Joyce Meyer who is one of the leading preachers and the top woman preacher approves of Joel  I have heard this many times from her. God has made many people and called them in many different ways and maybe hellfire and brimstone isnt for everyone, but if Joel has that big of a congregation well someone is liking his brand of gospel. He led me to the lord and i read my bible, as i say if you dont like him then turn away, simple thing to do!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you know, i think there is enough bad things in this world to worry about and Joel Osteen isnt one of them, my husband turned his life over to JESUS CHRIST after listening to JOEL and this in itself is a miraculous thing. If JOel attracts the younger people and teaches them to be more positive and helpful etc, then i do not see the harm in that. If you dont like him turn the channel, put down the book. He was just on Larry King live and Larry likened his message to that of the great Billy Grahamn. Can you argue with that? Joyce Meyer who is one of the leading preachers and the top woman preacher approves of Joel  I have heard this many times from her. God has made many people and called them in many different ways and maybe hellfire and brimstone isnt for everyone, but if Joel has that big of a congregation well someone is liking his brand of gospel. He led me to the lord and i read my bible, as i say if you dont like him then turn away, simple thing to do!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

