Any person who is on the front lines of spiritual battle is vulnerable to attacks by Satan.

This means anyone on the front lines, whether they be pastors, prayer warriors, scouts, watchmen, missionaries, etc.

But are the men in her life proud of this burden they have placed on her? Proud that she is paying the price of their laziness or distraction to other matters?

I knew this discussion would get us at least one classic line, but I never thought it would be “women are too physically weak.”

Congratulations.

Being pastor is not the height or culmination of a “career” in the Church. It is not CEO of the church.

The pastor is held to a stricter standard by God (James 3:1). The pastor is the servant of all. And subject to powerful attacks from our enemy (Michael can attest to this; I did listen to the audio, you can here the tiredness in her voice, and she talks some of this burden).

To allow a woman to lead is not helping her at all. It is men slacking in their duty. And it does not give God His proper glory.

abmo: You make my point… Deborah had heard from God directly, does anyone today hear God? Barak is told to lead, he defers, and there are negative consequences.

in my experience, God uses whom He pleases. But then again, we can always tell God that He cannot, because…you know, it’s written in the Bible. Will God tell a man to marry a prostitute? Mmmm

Let me take you back to the old days.

Jdg 4:4 Now Deborah, the wife of Lappidoth, was a prophet, and she was serving as a judge for the Israelites at that time.
Jdg 4:5 She would sit under a certain palm tree between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel would go there for her decisions.
(I am sure that this is wrong. God probably made a mistake. I mean, a woman giving decisions over men!!)

Jdg 4:6 One day she sent for Barak son of Abinoam from the city of Kedesh in Naphtali and said to him, “The LORD, the God of Israel, has given you this command: ‘Take ten thousand men from the tribes of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead them to Mount Tabor.
(What’s wrong with this picture? Lots, first she commands a man to come to her. Second, she tells a man what God’s plan is. Now how in the world will a woman know what God’s will is, before a man???? And thirdly, she tells him what to do. Where’s the authority structure? It’s the end of life as we know it, for crying out loud!)

Jdg 4:7 I will bring Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, to fight you at the Kishon River. He will have his chariots and soldiers, but I will give you victory over him.’ ”
Jdg 4:8 Then Barak replied, “I will go if you go with me, but if you don’t go with me, I won’t go either.”
(He was probably thinking: Well if I get killed, she gets killed.

Jdg 4:9 She answered, “All right, I will go with you, but you won’t get any credit for the victory, because the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman.” So Deborah set off for Kedesh with Barak.
(So the man does the fighting, but the credit goes to a woman. Again, what’s wrong with this picture?)

God can use anybody to talk to us, but then again, we will use any excuse not to HEAR God. For if we(men) LISTEN, we might have to do what God tells us to do. O the horror!!

thanks for very good sermon

On an afterthought: go to redheadrev.wordpress.com for another look at women in ministry. She is Assembly of God, and has just started posting her sermons as blogs.

Distinguiching between men and women is not the sole reason listed for head coverings. Doesn’t that text also refer to not offending angels?

Yet, we don’t seem to take that reference too seriously.

Baptism for the dead is also a one off. I heard a good explanation that the way Paul says “they” implies some non-orthodox group doing this.

My church has women teaching children (which I think goes up to age 10 or so). For any older group, we find a man to teach. Even if we need lots of exhortation to get teachers (although God has blessed us with a good group of teachers).

A woman might “have authority” in dictating how to set up a room for a meeting, or giving driving directions, etc. The goal isn’t to obey some rule. The goal is to give God glory by having men and women fill the roles God designed.

I’ve been reading through “Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: A Response to Evangelical Feminism” (John Piper ed.) It is very dense, but has good points.

I appreciate what the Amish are trying to do, although they seem to have forgotten Mark 16:15…

I’m just striving for some consistency here. When someone says we need to take the text seriously and asks where women can have authority over men other than their children, I want to know…

1. Do they follow the head-coverings text?
2. Do they have some for of Baptism for the dead?
3. Do they allow women to teach mixed genders at any level?
4. Do they allow women to have authority over men at any level or any place?

Saying that it means “visually different” and that a school is free to do what they want is just employing a hermeneutic no different from those who recognize women as equally called and gifted to ministry. It’s jsut a quibbling over details.

People who take the text seriously are the traditional Amish, not modern evangelical complementarians. Especially not Southern Baptists- my denomination- buying Beth Moore books and CDs.

The intent there is clearly for women to be visually distinguishable from men. My church certainly encourages men and women to be visually different. Not that we would forbid a cross-dressed/ambiguous visitor.

Your school is certainly free to do as it pleases. Is the school an extension of some local church? Does that church have male elders?

If it is not an extension of a local church, it’s really more like a business. A business is free to have whatever leadership it likes.

Did you want to get into a para-church ministry flamewar?