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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Happy Enough&#8221; Protestant</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-367096</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-367096</guid>
		<description>I want to thank you for this post.  I got an email last night with a link to this piece; and it couldn&#039;t have arrived at a better time!
After a divorce, I recently returned to my hometown and was trying to decide where to attend church.  Both Catholicism and Lutheranism was looking more and more attractive from the Baptist side of the fence and I was debating making the jump.  So the cogent thoughts presented here spoke to a lot of the indecision I&#039;d been experiencing, and this morning I returned to the Baptist church I&#039;d attended when living here before.  I&#039;m more than just happy enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to thank you for this post.  I got an email last night with a link to this piece; and it couldn&#8217;t have arrived at a better time!<br />
After a divorce, I recently returned to my hometown and was trying to decide where to attend church.  Both Catholicism and Lutheranism was looking more and more attractive from the Baptist side of the fence and I was debating making the jump.  So the cogent thoughts presented here spoke to a lot of the indecision I&#8217;d been experiencing, and this morning I returned to the Baptist church I&#8217;d attended when living here before.  I&#8217;m more than just happy enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-251020</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-251020</guid>
		<description>Thank you for writing this post!!! I grew up Catholic, taught CCD for a number of years, and was part of a wonderful community (that is no longer). 

I now attend a evangelical church with my husband and kids but I still consider myself more Catholic than evangelical. I like I started attending because it&#039;s easier on my family. I feel like I don&#039;t really  belong to either, just sort of in between both. There still times I think I still want to go back. Your blog is so encouraging to me. I can be a &quot;happy enough&quot; Protestant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for writing this post!!! I grew up Catholic, taught CCD for a number of years, and was part of a wonderful community (that is no longer). </p>
<p>I now attend a evangelical church with my husband and kids but I still consider myself more Catholic than evangelical. I like I started attending because it&#8217;s easier on my family. I feel like I don&#8217;t really  belong to either, just sort of in between both. There still times I think I still want to go back. Your blog is so encouraging to me. I can be a &#8220;happy enough&#8221; Protestant!</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-223167</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-223167</guid>
		<description>Hearing the absolution of my sins gives me joy. Receiving the body and blood of my Lord at the communion rail with my congregation raising an Easter hymn to the rafters (and the heavens) gives me joy! But I, too, am &quot;just&quot; Happy Enough in my chosen strain of Protestant Christian faith. This has nothing to do with the &quot;joy of my salvation.&quot; An older blog or an archived article included a discussion about seeking the perfect church being the fastest way to discontent with your own church. Part of what I appreciate about this blog is the recognition from most writers that their chosen church is flawed but adequate. I appreciate the voices of many Protestant faith traditions on this blog and their willingness (mostly) to drop the hatchet and discuss issues without feeling the need to promote their denomination as the one and only &quot;true Christian religion.&quot; 
All this, of course with the exception of a few posts - this time it was Cynic Sage: What&#039;s with the acerbic Luther bashing? There&#039;s always been an acknowlegement from Michael that Luther and the other reformers were flawed human beings, but that doesn&#039;t minimize the gifts God bequeathed the church through them. Thankfully, God still is able to use flawed people!
And, lastly, it was nice, and not especially surprising, to see some Lutheran voices speaking up on this topic (did you see that one coming?). I sense Michael has little patience for petty denominationalism, and I have a laundry list of LC-MS issues, but I agree with a few earlier posts that confessional Lutherans have a bit of the best of both Protestant and Catholic worlds. I have to admit that before researching the evangelical movement I had no idea that there was such a rangle of beliefs within the protestant church(blame that on my parochialism.) Sometimes on this blog I don&#039;t even recognize my church in the way the Protestant church is identified. My Protestant background was a world away from MichaelSpencer&#039;s Protestant background. I sometimes feel it would be helpful (without creating too much division) to put the confessional, liturgical, (I&#039;d add sacramental but that will probably get me into trouble!)Protestant churches in their own category. Anyway, it was good to read in the posts that some have found a happy enough Protestant place in the Lutheran clarity on the doctrines of justification and sanctification and in a church that values a liturgical framework for worship as the best way to clearly and consistently communicate God&#039;s precious word (for now, and in most quarters - I&#039;ll resist my rant on the rapid descent of much of the LC-MS into vapid theologies of church growth since this is, after all, about being happy enough!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hearing the absolution of my sins gives me joy. Receiving the body and blood of my Lord at the communion rail with my congregation raising an Easter hymn to the rafters (and the heavens) gives me joy! But I, too, am &#8220;just&#8221; Happy Enough in my chosen strain of Protestant Christian faith. This has nothing to do with the &#8220;joy of my salvation.&#8221; An older blog or an archived article included a discussion about seeking the perfect church being the fastest way to discontent with your own church. Part of what I appreciate about this blog is the recognition from most writers that their chosen church is flawed but adequate. I appreciate the voices of many Protestant faith traditions on this blog and their willingness (mostly) to drop the hatchet and discuss issues without feeling the need to promote their denomination as the one and only &#8220;true Christian religion.&#8221;<br />
All this, of course with the exception of a few posts &#8211; this time it was Cynic Sage: What&#8217;s with the acerbic Luther bashing? There&#8217;s always been an acknowlegement from Michael that Luther and the other reformers were flawed human beings, but that doesn&#8217;t minimize the gifts God bequeathed the church through them. Thankfully, God still is able to use flawed people!<br />
And, lastly, it was nice, and not especially surprising, to see some Lutheran voices speaking up on this topic (did you see that one coming?). I sense Michael has little patience for petty denominationalism, and I have a laundry list of LC-MS issues, but I agree with a few earlier posts that confessional Lutherans have a bit of the best of both Protestant and Catholic worlds. I have to admit that before researching the evangelical movement I had no idea that there was such a rangle of beliefs within the protestant church(blame that on my parochialism.) Sometimes on this blog I don&#8217;t even recognize my church in the way the Protestant church is identified. My Protestant background was a world away from MichaelSpencer&#8217;s Protestant background. I sometimes feel it would be helpful (without creating too much division) to put the confessional, liturgical, (I&#8217;d add sacramental but that will probably get me into trouble!)Protestant churches in their own category. Anyway, it was good to read in the posts that some have found a happy enough Protestant place in the Lutheran clarity on the doctrines of justification and sanctification and in a church that values a liturgical framework for worship as the best way to clearly and consistently communicate God&#8217;s precious word (for now, and in most quarters &#8211; I&#8217;ll resist my rant on the rapid descent of much of the LC-MS into vapid theologies of church growth since this is, after all, about being happy enough!).</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Seelhoff</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-220626</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Seelhoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-220626</guid>
		<description>&quot;How is it that in a world where all that is real is a particular and individual thing, the human mind is able to distribute the manifold of reality into classes, in which particular things are contained?&quot; Etienne Gilson, from The Unity of Philosophical Experience 

And how is it, after Babel and after Pentecost, we still are so intent about us making us a name for ourselves, much less us making taller-than-thou towers in the sky? That the world may know... what? That we are not One. 

Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist - it&#039;s all confounded language. Every word of it, every qualifying adjective and adverb, every shibboleth one can think of, confound it. It&#039;s the Great Confusion - Christian Babylon. 

Nevertheless and even so it&#039;s still all in His Name and for His Glory. Which is as close to happy or content this bothered and bewildered pilgrim and self-confessed stranger hopes to get to in this weird world. Be that as it may, I still run to the little towers (any port in a storm), and every time and in each and every one I&#039;ve found myself in excellent company. Which again is close. Maybe closest. I&#039;ll always remember with fondness their names. But not so much their social categories. It just doesn&#039;t matter.  

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but here I stand. I can&#039;t in good faith make any other claim. For myself or anyone else, near as I can tell.

Even so, come Holy Spirit. Lord have mercy on us all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;How is it that in a world where all that is real is a particular and individual thing, the human mind is able to distribute the manifold of reality into classes, in which particular things are contained?&#8221; Etienne Gilson, from The Unity of Philosophical Experience </p>
<p>And how is it, after Babel and after Pentecost, we still are so intent about us making us a name for ourselves, much less us making taller-than-thou towers in the sky? That the world may know&#8230; what? That we are not One. </p>
<p>Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist &#8211; it&#8217;s all confounded language. Every word of it, every qualifying adjective and adverb, every shibboleth one can think of, confound it. It&#8217;s the Great Confusion &#8211; Christian Babylon. </p>
<p>Nevertheless and even so it&#8217;s still all in His Name and for His Glory. Which is as close to happy or content this bothered and bewildered pilgrim and self-confessed stranger hopes to get to in this weird world. Be that as it may, I still run to the little towers (any port in a storm), and every time and in each and every one I&#8217;ve found myself in excellent company. Which again is close. Maybe closest. I&#8217;ll always remember with fondness their names. But not so much their social categories. It just doesn&#8217;t matter.  </p>
<p>Sorry to be a wet blanket, but here I stand. I can&#8217;t in good faith make any other claim. For myself or anyone else, near as I can tell.</p>
<p>Even so, come Holy Spirit. Lord have mercy on us all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Platypus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Christian Reconciliation Carnival #11</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-220535</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Platypus &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Christian Reconciliation Carnival #11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-220535</guid>
		<description>[...] of a more conservative bent are likely to write off. And while you&#8217;re at it, check out &#8220;The &#8216;Happy Enough&#8217; Protestant,&#8221; in which Michael explains why he is content to remain within the Protestant fold despite [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of a more conservative bent are likely to write off. And while you&#8217;re at it, check out &#8220;The &#8216;Happy Enough&#8217; Protestant,&#8221; in which Michael explains why he is content to remain within the Protestant fold despite [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KeeinItReal</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-220241</link>
		<dc:creator>KeeinItReal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-220241</guid>
		<description>Amen!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Wolf Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-220073</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-220073</guid>
		<description>I have held off commenting on this thread; for one thing I largely agreed with the description Michael gave in the initial post, for another, I didn&#039;t want to &quot;shoot from the hip&quot; but think a bit longer about this, and finally, I am not on the verge of such a step anyway, so any comments would be a bit theoretical.

However,  I have just received my copy of &quot;Towards Baptist Catholicity&quot; by Steven Harmon, and there is something in his last chapter, &quot;What keeps you from becoming Catholic&quot; that resonates with me very much and bears spelling out here:

Like Prof. Harmon, I don&#039;t believe that Christians switching from one imperfect denomination to another, even if that other seems more in line with my present convictions, serves the cause of Christian unity. In the context of his book, recovering Baptist catholicity, as well as in the context of my own involvements in ministries of reconciliation between the various Christian traditions in my country, conversion or &quot;reversion&quot; to the R.C.C. would only serve to increase Evangelical suspicion of anyone who talks about a greater recognition of Tradition or a more sacramental understanding of the ordinances.

Like Charley in an earlier comment, I also don&#039;t believe in &quot;Cafeteria Catholicism&quot;, and since a &quot;convert&quot; or &quot;revert&quot; would have to explicitly declare their adherence to the complete package, I would have to go into this with a lot of reservations,  and that would be a rather dishonest thing to do. (My reservations are not the proverbial ones about Mary, the saints, purgatory, the sacrificial character of the mass -- all of these can be understood in ways I find acceptable -- but rather a too formal and legalistic understanding of what God expects from us and deals with us as believers and as His church, i.e. viewing the succession of laying on of hands as more important than actually teaching the Apostel&#039;s doctrine, viewing the large masses of baptized Catholics who have no idea what being a Christ-follower is as part of the Church while declaring that the Baptists, for example, are not a church in the proper sense, the &quot;ex opere operato&quot; view of teh sacraments which to me is not far removed from a magical understanding, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have held off commenting on this thread; for one thing I largely agreed with the description Michael gave in the initial post, for another, I didn&#8217;t want to &#8220;shoot from the hip&#8221; but think a bit longer about this, and finally, I am not on the verge of such a step anyway, so any comments would be a bit theoretical.</p>
<p>However,  I have just received my copy of &#8220;Towards Baptist Catholicity&#8221; by Steven Harmon, and there is something in his last chapter, &#8220;What keeps you from becoming Catholic&#8221; that resonates with me very much and bears spelling out here:</p>
<p>Like Prof. Harmon, I don&#8217;t believe that Christians switching from one imperfect denomination to another, even if that other seems more in line with my present convictions, serves the cause of Christian unity. In the context of his book, recovering Baptist catholicity, as well as in the context of my own involvements in ministries of reconciliation between the various Christian traditions in my country, conversion or &#8220;reversion&#8221; to the R.C.C. would only serve to increase Evangelical suspicion of anyone who talks about a greater recognition of Tradition or a more sacramental understanding of the ordinances.</p>
<p>Like Charley in an earlier comment, I also don&#8217;t believe in &#8220;Cafeteria Catholicism&#8221;, and since a &#8220;convert&#8221; or &#8220;revert&#8221; would have to explicitly declare their adherence to the complete package, I would have to go into this with a lot of reservations,  and that would be a rather dishonest thing to do. (My reservations are not the proverbial ones about Mary, the saints, purgatory, the sacrificial character of the mass &#8212; all of these can be understood in ways I find acceptable &#8212; but rather a too formal and legalistic understanding of what God expects from us and deals with us as believers and as His church, i.e. viewing the succession of laying on of hands as more important than actually teaching the Apostel&#8217;s doctrine, viewing the large masses of baptized Catholics who have no idea what being a Christ-follower is as part of the Church while declaring that the Baptists, for example, are not a church in the proper sense, the &#8220;ex opere operato&#8221; view of teh sacraments which to me is not far removed from a magical understanding, etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: Charley</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-219704</link>
		<dc:creator>Charley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-219704</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you can&#039;t be with the one you love, love the one you&#039;re with.&quot;

I love Catholicism.  I love looking at the early church and seeing a primitive version of the Catholic Church, with liturgy, bishops, Eucharist, etc.  I love doctrine rooted in history, Bishops whose successors can be traced back to Apostles, and a &quot;Rock&quot; with the keys whose successor is still with us today.  But, I&#039;m not Catholic.

I don&#039;t love Protestantism like I love Catholicism.  But I&#039;m happy with it.  Well ... happy enough. I know I can&#039;t be a &quot;Cafeteria Catholic.&quot;  (No offense to those that are).  For me, if you reject Church authority, then you&#039;re essentially a Protestant.  Once you realize that you are a Protestant, then the real work begins.  What doctrines am I going to keep?  Reject as unbiblical?  Why did so many really smart literate early Christians belief “X”, if “X” is clearly unbiblical?  Am I a Calvinist?  If so, 4 or 5 points?    

Even in the Protestant community, there is a tendency to cling to one’s beliefs like they are infallible.  Likewise, it’s easy for Calvin, Luther, or your pastor become &quot;pope like” and questioning them can be sacrilege.  Which, if you ask me, kinda defeats the purpose of being a Protestant in the first place.

I&#039;m a &quot;happy enough Protestant&quot; because being Protestant is a realization that the church itself, its individual denominations, and even its doctrines, are fallible.  It&#039;s a realization that two intellectually honest people can disagree about what the Bible says, and God is not going to step in and give an absolute answer. 

Catholicism gives a system for salvation, and can point to the ECF&#039;s and early Christian history to back it up.  Protestantism tells me to be secure in my salvation, even though I can never be totally secure in its other doctrines (because the denominations disagree amongst themselves).  

So, I&#039;m happy enough to be a Protestant. I’m happy to know I am saved.  But not as happy as I would be if Protestantism was one big church, with the same liturgy, with beliefs that had been widely practiced for 2000 years, and with bishops that could be traced back to the first century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you can&#8217;t be with the one you love, love the one you&#8217;re with.&#8221;</p>
<p>I love Catholicism.  I love looking at the early church and seeing a primitive version of the Catholic Church, with liturgy, bishops, Eucharist, etc.  I love doctrine rooted in history, Bishops whose successors can be traced back to Apostles, and a &#8220;Rock&#8221; with the keys whose successor is still with us today.  But, I&#8217;m not Catholic.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t love Protestantism like I love Catholicism.  But I&#8217;m happy with it.  Well &#8230; happy enough. I know I can&#8217;t be a &#8220;Cafeteria Catholic.&#8221;  (No offense to those that are).  For me, if you reject Church authority, then you&#8217;re essentially a Protestant.  Once you realize that you are a Protestant, then the real work begins.  What doctrines am I going to keep?  Reject as unbiblical?  Why did so many really smart literate early Christians belief “X”, if “X” is clearly unbiblical?  Am I a Calvinist?  If so, 4 or 5 points?    </p>
<p>Even in the Protestant community, there is a tendency to cling to one’s beliefs like they are infallible.  Likewise, it’s easy for Calvin, Luther, or your pastor become &#8220;pope like” and questioning them can be sacrilege.  Which, if you ask me, kinda defeats the purpose of being a Protestant in the first place.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a &#8220;happy enough Protestant&#8221; because being Protestant is a realization that the church itself, its individual denominations, and even its doctrines, are fallible.  It&#8217;s a realization that two intellectually honest people can disagree about what the Bible says, and God is not going to step in and give an absolute answer. </p>
<p>Catholicism gives a system for salvation, and can point to the ECF&#8217;s and early Christian history to back it up.  Protestantism tells me to be secure in my salvation, even though I can never be totally secure in its other doctrines (because the denominations disagree amongst themselves).  </p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m happy enough to be a Protestant. I’m happy to know I am saved.  But not as happy as I would be if Protestantism was one big church, with the same liturgy, with beliefs that had been widely practiced for 2000 years, and with bishops that could be traced back to the first century.</p>
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		<title>By: Profiling &#171; Shanan Trail</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-219388</link>
		<dc:creator>Profiling &#171; Shanan Trail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-219388</guid>
		<description>[...] modern worship service seem ordinary. But, so far I am (in the words of internetmonk) a &#8220;Happy Enough Protestant.&#8221; I study scripture using the Macaroni Principle. I didn&#8217;t know that was what I was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] modern worship service seem ordinary. But, so far I am (in the words of internetmonk) a &#8220;Happy Enough Protestant.&#8221; I study scripture using the Macaroni Principle. I didn&#8217;t know that was what I was [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger du Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant/comment-page-2#comment-219174</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger du Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-happy-enough-protestant#comment-219174</guid>
		<description>The Reformation was a protest against the innovations of the Pope, not all things prior to it.  It saw itself as a RETURN to the ancient traditions and teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Reformation was a protest against the innovations of the Pope, not all things prior to it.  It saw itself as a RETURN to the ancient traditions and teaching.</p>
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