I think the statement: “a conspiracy of religious leaders put Him to death” is misleading/inaccurate (Tony Kummer) by what it leaves out—particularly the Romans—but also others who could have defended Jesus but chose not to do so. This is dangerous rhetoric historically, so special care need to be taken to convey the fullness of what the Gospels have to say about the events surrounding Jesus’ death.

Whatever we humans profess to believe about Evolution and the apparent absence of a Creator, we consistenly act as if we live within a moral universe. We habitually express surprise at the Universe because It Seems So Evil; i.e. Wy Do So Many Bad Things (earthquakes, floods, miscarriages, genetic deformities…) Happen? And why are People So Bad? (mothers microwaving babies, fathers pushing their own young children off 50′ highway overpasses… etc.) Our thought-life and our reactions to perceived wrongs done to us by others is evidence that we think there must be some ultimate Idea of good and evil, right and wrong, somewhere within the warp and woof of the Universe. This fact would be laughable if we actually were the product of random forces which accidentally produced life from inanimate matter. This may be the best ‘internal’ evidence we have that there just might be a hidden ‘Someone’ responsible for this sense of good and evil within us. For a ‘Someone’ rather than a ‘something’ IS necessary to explain a Universe with living beings who possess a pervasive sense of ‘good and evil’. Just as a lower mountain lake cannot empty itself into a higher mountain lake, so an impersonal universe logically could not have produced creatures with natures ‘higher’ than it is itself. Only a ‘personal being’ – having the power to choose, able to make decisions, to plan among possible courses of action – can be the source of the very concepts of ‘good’ or ‘evil’. An impersonal Universe, like any impersonal thing, cannot in and of itself, be ‘good’ or ‘evil’. A stone, or a sunset, or an earthquake can only be granted moral value by an observer – a ‘personal’ third party with the power and ability to be pleased and to judge. So we have this sense of good and evil that we cannot shake, (and we know that society would be much worse off if we could shake it) and if the Universe really is an accident, then we are in the position of a fish complaining that the water is wet. But it gets worse. We see ‘evil’ and ‘bad’ things in others, but the rub is that those very things that we ‘know’ to be wrong in others, we find ourselves doing, more times than we would like to admit. And we are powerless to do much at all about this. Even after strenuous efforts, we find ourselves powerless to live up to this very mysterious but unshakable good-and-evil standard.

The Good News as written about in scripture, is that there IS a moral Creator behind this Universe of ours, which explains this good and evil guilt feeling we can’t shake. There is a ‘missing’ third party observer with the power to grant moral value to things. This Creator is the embodiment of all that we hope for when we imagine a better, perfect, world/person/place/thing. He would need to be, to have come up with all that is. He is utterly good and utterly powerful, and utterly radiant and wholly complete in his being. AND He possesses the power of Self-Existence, placing him beyond the restrictions of time and space. And this creator originally made us in his image – as finite, but perfect reflections of his own nature, which explains where we get our unshakable good-and-evil feeling. But the bad news is, as the Genesis narrative tells us, that the original man and woman, during a simple test, turned away from a relationship of trust and obedience with this Creator, falling from their original high position and relationship with Him. They tried to cover it up, but found themselves naked and ashamed. Sadly, what occured in them amounted to spiritual death, as well as (later) physical death. And those deadly attributes were passed on to all their offspring. They lost their internal connection with their creator; their thoughts, emotions, desires were darkened and clouded. Yet they and their offspring still retained a racial memory of what paradise (goodness) was like, along with memories of good and evil that (as we know) cannot be forgotten to this day. Many of us would do anything to shake those memories. And there are many distractions today that would help us do so. But the consequences of their rebellion weren’t simply personal. The natural world was also affected by that fall; death passed on to all creatures; the perfect order within nature became altered and misshappen. (If we could ‘remember’ with perfect knowledge how things were before the Fall, we would probably be horrified by even the best life here on earth as we know it) But the scriptures also tell us that the Creator would send a person into the world who would be able to undo the horrible things that happened to us and the world back in the garden. This person would be both God and man; he would be both a priest (mediator) between mankind and his creator, and a king with authority to wisely rule over those who follow him. Isaiah tells us that he would be one who was not beautiful or handsome in outward appearance, nor would it be immediately obvious to humanity that he was the one spoken of. Apparently he was to enjoy no special privileges or advantages simply because of who he was. In fact he would suffer greatly to accomplish his work. Isaiah also says that the ‘government would be upon his shoulders’ – in the good sense of caring for us and bearing responsibility for us, as well as hinting that earthly governments would perceive him to be a threat. But he would give himself up for us, paying a ransom with his life to buy us back from our fallen state.

All this was alluded to in what we know of as the Old Testament. In the New Testament, this person is fully revealed as the very Son of the Creator, Jesus, born to a human mother, and – since his father was not a fallen man – not born into the spiritual death inherited from Adam by every other person born. He lived the life that only a truly perfect human being can live. He performed miracles, even raising the dead. He was at odds with the religious leaders of the day, who had turned faith into a moral ball-and-chain and a ritual of works, rather than a joyous relationship with the Creator. He broke the rules by healing on the Sabbath, and eating and hanging out with those who were perceived to be the scum of society of those days. He taught that he was the perfect representative of his Father (the Creator), and that anyone who saw him and heard him, saw and heard his Father. His words were simple but they consistently shut the mouths of his critics. He revealed to us that the relationship between God and man was to be the same love relationship that he enjoyed with his Father. He said that his followers would also do the good works that he did. And he taught that those who would be greatest in his Kingdom were those who were the greatest servants. But it was only after his death and resurrection that it became apparent what his full work was. Because we are inheritors of the rebellion of Adam against God, we are consequently living in a state of opposition to our Creator, and the penalty for that is… death of every kind. And there is nothing that any of us can do to undo that. Our own best efforts to ‘be good’, fall far short of God’s original high standard for us. (Trying to please an infinite creator with your own imperfect works is like trying to offer a 5-star chef an omelet made from 11 good eggs and one rotten egg – would you partake?) The Catch-22 is that our falleness has also blinded us to the depth of our falleness and helplessness. (One of the many consequences of our moral fall was a subtle but fierce tendency to self-righteousness and pride – both anathema to our being receptive to the only solution) Only someone who was both man and God could possible pay the price to ransom us back from our terrible fallen state. Only someone who combined both natures together could become a substitute for us. Only a man could die; and only a God-man possessing an infinite/divine nature could die a death that would pay the price-of-death for a huge but finite number of humans who would put their trust in him. And only a God-man could come back from death (having conquered it) with sufficient power to pass that resurrection life on to that same number of humans who put their trust in him. Thus undoing the spiritual death that befell us in Adam. How do we ‘put our trust’ in Him? By admitting our own inability to meet His high standard for ourselves, and that our best boot-strap efforts have repeatedly failed and will never work. As well, we make a commitment to turn away from what we know, and whatever he points out to be evil in our own actions, thoughts, motivations, emotions. This is called repentance. And we then throw ourselves upon his mercies; requesting that, because of his status as payer-of-ransom, he graciously apply his death as payment for our sin, and that he then grant to us his own resurrection life, that we may no longer live under the shadow of Adam’s sin. In this transaction we give him our failures and sin and guilt, in return for his perfection and wholeness and Life. And we then request him to teach us about the new relationship he wants to have with us, to guide us and sustain us and grow us into the full glowing humanity he envisioned from the beginning. And that is just the beginning.

It’s no use asking why it had to happen this way. Of course we would like to know why, but I have a feeling that that knowledge may be reserved for those who do the hard work of living through this process. There may be something about what we eventually come to understand as the ‘reason(s)’ it had to happen this way – something that would be incomprehensible to anyone who stands on the outside looking in. There are things about people that we can only comprehend by spending time with them. And there are things – like sex and skydiving – that we only ‘understand’ fully once we have done them.

Grace and Peace.

Thank you for the opportunity to do this. I’m sorry I haven’t been able to participate in this thread I’ve been out of town and away from an internet connection.

Just speaking for myself I don’t really see how it’s “Christianese” or would be difficult for any person to understand.

It would be helpful to know exactly what would fall under the heading of “Christianese”

-ryan

The secular world can feel a happy, positive & purposeful place to be. The sinful worthlessness of my life without God wasn’t something some one *else* could have told me. I wouldn’t have listened.

After 2 years in an evangelical fellowship I have still to reconcile my BSc and PhD with teaching on Genesis. I am comfortable being a work-in-progress. But if Genesis had been part of my initial re-introduction to the Gospel, I wouldn’t have listened.

Different voices and approaches are essential and all have value. For *me*, what seemed most important at the time was to hear that Jesus was recognised as a real and historical figure by sensible people and to register that he had actually died for me. That was impossible to ignore.

Take care & God bless
Anne / WF

I was at a Relay for Life event about a year ago where they were trying to hold a rally for a cure for cancer. In itself a good thing.

But they had this weird quasi Easter celebration. The theme was “we’re staying up all night waiting for the light of the Cure to dawn.” And they had a celebration where they put faces of people who had died of cancer up so we could see how much Hope there must be in the Cure.

I wanted to go up front, grab the mike and tell them “Yes, hope for a cure. But even with a cure, these people remain in the grave. And even with a cure, cancer won’t get people, something else will. Death still wins. But the sunrise from on high has visited us. Christ is risen from the dead trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing Life.” But I didn’t think I’d say much before security tackled me, so I just paced around in the back praying Hail Mary’s and Jesus Prayers. (Hail Mary’s because as they lost their only hope, so she lost her only hope. But she has received hers back.)

Quick aside–I have a newborn in NICU at the moment (he’s out of the woods and progressing well, though), and I can’t keep up with the conversation as much as I would like. But I did want to come back to this one.

I understand (I think) what you are saying about the offensiveness of the gospel, but if what we are preaching isn’t good news, then by definition it’s not gospel. The good news is that God, through Jesus, is setting everything right. (I’m with N.T. Wright on this point.) Since everything is being set right, it makes sense to me to focus on what my audience already knows is wrong. Too often what happens is we’ve only practiced telling one kind of good news (forgiveness of sins) and we wind up first having to convince people that they are guilty before they are set up to hear the facet of the good news that we know how to tell.

Jesus is able to begin at different starting points. For many, it’s healing. For others, it’s relationship. His first point in the Sermon on the Mount is “All of you, just as you are, hungry, poor and oppressed, are blessed by God.” That’s good news!

The gospel is huge! God is renewing heaven and earth! With so much that is wonderful to tell, I don’t see the point of starting with the facet of the good news that is most likely to alienate my audience from the start. There’s no reason to do that unless “through the cross God offers forgiveness of your individual sins” is the primary gospel to which all else is secondary. I don’t think it is.

I’m not sure if I’m allowed to answer you as it’s kinda off topic. If you want an answer, follow my name to my blog and leave a question on the top post. I’ll answer it there. (Though my answer in short is “I don’t think we can know why God created. All we can know is the God who has created. And He saves us from death, and destroys our evil because he yearns for us. Jeremiah 31:21, Hebrews 12:2, Song of Songs 4:9, 6:4-5, etc.”)