Comments on: The Evangelical Liturgy 6: The Call to Worship http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:14:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: busy « listening to the wind http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-511166 busy « listening to the wind Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:50:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-511166 [...] The Evangelical Liturgy 6: The Call to Worship (internetmonk.com) [...] [...] The Evangelical Liturgy 6: The Call to Worship (internetmonk.com) [...]

]]> By: Sensus Divinitatis News http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-509149 Sensus Divinitatis News Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:31:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-509149 <strong>The Evangelical Liturgy 6: The Call to Worship...</strong> This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News.... The Evangelical Liturgy 6: The Call to Worship…

This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News….

]]> By: Jeff http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-509079 Jeff Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:48:22 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-509079 This sort of conversation could go on and on of course. It's true that Jesus accepts us as we are and that we have "liberty." At the same time, Paul makes a point of stressing decorum in worship, including our appearance. Further, the point he drives home is that we should be sensitive to what might offend others and not look at "liberty" as an excuse to do whatever we want. Making church an extension of one's living room where the kids can run around freely, you can lounge around in your pajamas (or other extremely casual clothing), etc doesn't seem to demonstrate the proper sense of decorum in worship or sensitivity to others that Paul teaches. What message does it send to non-Christians when they see Christians treating Sunday like any other day, church like any other place, "worship" like any other secular event? Why should atheists have any respect for God or for Christians when Christians themselves show no great respect for Him or for each other? As you said, it's different if you're poor or have not been taught appropriate manners, but when there's a closet full of polo shirts you would wear to meet a special person or to an interview, why does church only rate the sloppiest outfit in the wardrobe? This sort of conversation could go on and on of course. It’s true that Jesus accepts us as we are and that we have “liberty.” At the same time, Paul makes a point of stressing decorum in worship, including our appearance. Further, the point he drives home is that we should be sensitive to what might offend others and not look at “liberty” as an excuse to do whatever we want. Making church an extension of one’s living room where the kids can run around freely, you can lounge around in your pajamas (or other extremely casual clothing), etc doesn’t seem to demonstrate the proper sense of decorum in worship or sensitivity to others that Paul teaches. What message does it send to non-Christians when they see Christians treating Sunday like any other day, church like any other place, “worship” like any other secular event? Why should atheists have any respect for God or for Christians when Christians themselves show no great respect for Him or for each other? As you said, it’s different if you’re poor or have not been taught appropriate manners, but when there’s a closet full of polo shirts you would wear to meet a special person or to an interview, why does church only rate the sloppiest outfit in the wardrobe?

]]> By: Tokah http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508992 Tokah Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:41:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508992 In my experience in a DOC church in Indiana, everything you could possibly wonder about was printed clearly and helpfully in the bulletin. In my experience in a DOC church in Indiana, everything you could possibly wonder about was printed clearly and helpfully in the bulletin.

]]> By: Timothy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508874 Timothy Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:06:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508874 As one of the non-evangelical readers, I would like to know what is the "call to worship” as you are defining or using the term. Sounds like the Orhtodox Antiphons or the Catholic introductory rites. Same-same? Also, like Rob above, I too would like to know more on the Biblical grounds for a “call to worship”. A quick Google on “call to worship” shows many instances, but no citations of scripture supporting its use in a liturgy. Justin the Martyr in his First Apology does not mention a “call to worship” in his description of a 3rd Century church service. The 5th Century Apostolic Constitutions does mention a call to prayer, or Ectene, at the start of the prayers of the faithful, but after the scripture readings. Justin Martyr does mention the prayers of the faithful in his description of a church service. (http://bit.ly/ectene) God bless... As one of the non-evangelical readers, I would like to know what is the “call to worship” as you are defining or using the term. Sounds like the Orhtodox Antiphons or the Catholic introductory rites. Same-same?

Also, like Rob above, I too would like to know more on the Biblical grounds for a “call to worship”. A quick Google on “call to worship” shows many instances, but no citations of scripture supporting its use in a liturgy.

Justin the Martyr in his First Apology does not mention a “call to worship” in his description of a 3rd Century church service.

The 5th Century Apostolic Constitutions does mention a call to prayer, or Ectene, at the start of the prayers of the faithful, but after the scripture readings. Justin Martyr does mention the prayers of the faithful in his description of a church service. (http://bit.ly/ectene)

God bless…

]]> By: Derek http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508481 Derek Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:54:26 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508481 Are you saying that Jesus didn't make me COMPLETELY free? Did Jesus say, "Come as you are" only to the unbelievers and then once we get them converted, they have a new set of rules to keep up with? Law --> Gospel --> Law ? Wow. If there's a risk of a person going too far in his or her liberty, then Jesus didn't do what he said he did. The price he paid wasn't enough. Close, but no cigar. Are you saying that Jesus didn’t make me COMPLETELY free? Did Jesus say, “Come as you are” only to the unbelievers and then once we get them converted, they have a new set of rules to keep up with?

Law –> Gospel –> Law ?

Wow.

If there’s a risk of a person going too far in his or her liberty, then Jesus didn’t do what he said he did. The price he paid wasn’t enough. Close, but no cigar.

]]> By: Rob http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508467 Rob Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:42:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508467 iMonk, I'd like to address your opening comment: "No element of the evangelical liturgy is as clearly Biblical as the call to worship." Are you referring to the exhortations to worship God found in many of the Psalms, or to something else? I agree with your endorsement of the call to worship for pragmatic reasons, but if you're also going to endorse it for Biblical reasons, I'd like to know what they are. As one who hasn't heard the phrase "call to worship" (or even seen an order of worship in a bulletin) in the past seven years, this post definitely stood out. In most of my more recent church experience, I've found that someone will inevitably pray before we start singing in a corporate meeting. When I was a worship leader, I would often start off by sharing a Psalm or other Scripture, which really helped to focus and strengthen my heart. I like starting with Scripture, because it brings revelation of who God is, and it's from our revelation of God that we worship. However, I've been in many spontaneous worship meetings where we just started singing, and they have been some of the best times. I think it depends on the crowd and on the situation. iMonk,

I’d like to address your opening comment: “No element of the evangelical liturgy is as clearly Biblical as the call to worship.” Are you referring to the exhortations to worship God found in many of the Psalms, or to something else? I agree with your endorsement of the call to worship for pragmatic reasons, but if you’re also going to endorse it for Biblical reasons, I’d like to know what they are.

As one who hasn’t heard the phrase “call to worship” (or even seen an order of worship in a bulletin) in the past seven years, this post definitely stood out. In most of my more recent church experience, I’ve found that someone will inevitably pray before we start singing in a corporate meeting.

When I was a worship leader, I would often start off by sharing a Psalm or other Scripture, which really helped to focus and strengthen my heart. I like starting with Scripture, because it brings revelation of who God is, and it’s from our revelation of God that we worship. However, I’ve been in many spontaneous worship meetings where we just started singing, and they have been some of the best times. I think it depends on the crowd and on the situation.

]]> By: austin http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508463 austin Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:24:01 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508463 I think you are running a risk of going to far in our liberty to not assume that there is in corporate worship some sort of obligation of decorum. I think you are running a risk of going to far in our liberty to not assume that there is in corporate worship some sort of obligation of decorum.

]]> By: Derek http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508454 Derek Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:45:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508454 I don't know that he ever DOES car about what we wear. Don't know if you've got any kids, but I don't care what my kids are wearing if they want to climb up on my lap and be held. Of course, if they're a bit dirty, I might want to change MY clothes first. :-) In all honesty, I think the more we focus on what other people think of us or what we think of other people, the more we are NOT focusing on God. I don’t know that he ever DOES car about what we wear. Don’t know if you’ve got any kids, but I don’t care what my kids are wearing if they want to climb up on my lap and be held. Of course, if they’re a bit dirty, I might want to change MY clothes first. :-)

In all honesty, I think the more we focus on what other people think of us or what we think of other people, the more we are NOT focusing on God.

]]> By: austin http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-6-the-call-to-worship/comment-page-1#comment-508452 austin Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:24:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4268#comment-508452 i would agree, but at what point does God begin to care? i'm sure you have a line somewhere too i would agree, but at what point does God begin to care? i’m sure you have a line somewhere too

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