Comments on: The Evangelical Liturgy 22: The Benediction http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:18:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Chris http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518710 Chris Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:03:26 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518710 Of course, there have always been Protestants who rejected the idea as well -- David Cressy has stories in one of his books on 16th-17th century England about parents *snatching* their infant back from the arms of the (Anglican) priest at baptism to prevent him making the sign of the cross on the infant's brow ;) Of course, there have always been Protestants who rejected the idea as well — David Cressy has stories in one of his books on 16th-17th century England about parents *snatching* their infant back from the arms of the (Anglican) priest at baptism to prevent him making the sign of the cross on the infant’s brow ;)

]]> By: Chris http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518709 Chris Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:58:40 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518709 True, especially since the wording of the prayer is generally the same (i.e. "May God bless you...") Apparently the very notion that someone can give a personal blessing is news to some people. IMHO, the RCC has done a terrible job of educating its members, and worst of all, the education completely stops at about age 12 unless someone goes looking for it. I have long maintained that this is something many evangelical churches do much better: they assume that *everyone* goes to Sunday School, child or adult. The quality of the education provided may vary, of course, but at least they are promoting the idea that no one ever stops learning. ;) True, especially since the wording of the prayer is generally the same (i.e. “May God bless you…”)

Apparently the very notion that someone can give a personal blessing is news to some people. IMHO, the RCC has done a terrible job of educating its members, and worst of all, the education completely stops at about age 12 unless someone goes looking for it.

I have long maintained that this is something many evangelical churches do much better: they assume that *everyone* goes to Sunday School, child or adult. The quality of the education provided may vary, of course, but at least they are promoting the idea that no one ever stops learning. ;)

]]> By: Fr. Ernesto http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518685 Fr. Ernesto Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:33:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518685 We have not always done a good job explaining the difference between a blessing pronounced in the name of the Church, which ought to be done by a clergyperson, and a personal blessing in a home or informal setting. They are both blessings, but of different types. We have not always done a good job explaining the difference between a blessing pronounced in the name of the Church, which ought to be done by a clergyperson, and a personal blessing in a home or informal setting. They are both blessings, but of different types.

]]> By: Thomas http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518581 Thomas Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:22:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518581 After hearing what a church in South America does, I have started cupping my hands to "receive" the benediction. Does anyone know whether it is proper to look up and receive the benediction or to bow the head. I know it doesn't really matter, but I was interested in your thoughts. As for the sign of the cross, Martin Luther was very much for it. There are lots of quotes at this site: http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.signofthecross.html. After hearing what a church in South America does, I have started cupping my hands to “receive” the benediction.

Does anyone know whether it is proper to look up and receive the benediction or to bow the head. I know it doesn’t really matter, but I was interested in your thoughts.

As for the sign of the cross, Martin Luther was very much for it. There are lots of quotes at this site: http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/lutherantheology.signofthecross.html.

]]> By: Thomas http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518580 Thomas Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:20:12 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518580 "The Lord bless you" in English is definitely subjunctive, which is accurately rendered "May the Lord bless." I don't know Hebrew, so I can't speak for the original. The same goes with the Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come" = "May thy kingdom come," not "Come, thy kingdom!" “The Lord bless you” in English is definitely subjunctive, which is accurately rendered “May the Lord bless.” I don’t know Hebrew, so I can’t speak for the original.

The same goes with the Lord’s prayer. “Thy kingdom come” = “May thy kingdom come,” not “Come, thy kingdom!”

]]> By: Wolf Paul http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518519 Wolf Paul Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:39:56 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518519 As far back as I can remember, the German translation of "Ite, missa est" used in Austria and Germany has been "Gehet hin in Frieden!" (Go forth in peace) to which the congregation responds "Dank sei Gott dem Herrn!" (Thanks be to God the Lord). The translation quarrels over the Roman liturgy so common in the US seem to be mostly an English-language problem; I do not recall all that much kerfuffle about this in the German-speaking world. I guess it helps that in German the words for "men" (male humans) and "men" (members of mankind, regardless of sex) are different, so that particular discussion which seems to be at the foundation or most of the "inclusive language" squabbles never took off like it did in English. As far back as I can remember, the German translation of “Ite, missa est” used in Austria and Germany has been “Gehet hin in Frieden!” (Go forth in peace) to which the congregation responds “Dank sei Gott dem Herrn!” (Thanks be to God the Lord).

The translation quarrels over the Roman liturgy so common in the US seem to be mostly an English-language problem; I do not recall all that much kerfuffle about this in the German-speaking world.

I guess it helps that in German the words for “men” (male humans) and “men” (members of mankind, regardless of sex) are different, so that particular discussion which seems to be at the foundation or most of the “inclusive language” squabbles never took off like it did in English.

]]> By: Wolf Paul http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518517 Wolf Paul Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:28:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518517 This, combined with Chris' comment above about some Roman Catholics thinking that only a priest can pronounce a benediction, reminds me of an amusing experience with the Aaronic Blessing a few years ago: It was a fairly mixed (ecumenical) gathering in the basement of a Catholic parish church here in Vienna, Austria, at the invitation of one of the lay members of the parish but with the pastor present. The occasion was a visit to Vienna of Benjamin Berger, a Messianic Jewish leader from Jerusalem, as well as a German sister who lives in Israel. At the end of the meeting someone asked Benjamin to pronounce the benediction, which he did, chanting the Aaronic Blessing. A number of the Catholics present got very agitated at the notion of a non-ordained, non-Catholic presuming to bless the congregation when there was a perfectly good Catholic priest present. Needless to say the priest was rather unperturbed and didn't think it strange or inappropriate at all. This, combined with Chris’ comment above about some Roman Catholics thinking that only a priest can pronounce a benediction, reminds me of an amusing experience with the Aaronic Blessing a few years ago:

It was a fairly mixed (ecumenical) gathering in the basement of a Catholic parish church here in Vienna, Austria, at the invitation of one of the lay members of the parish but with the pastor present.

The occasion was a visit to Vienna of Benjamin Berger, a Messianic Jewish leader from Jerusalem, as well as a German sister who lives in Israel.

At the end of the meeting someone asked Benjamin to pronounce the benediction, which he did, chanting the Aaronic Blessing.

A number of the Catholics present got very agitated at the notion of a non-ordained, non-Catholic presuming to bless the congregation when there was a perfectly good Catholic priest present.

Needless to say the priest was rather unperturbed and didn’t think it strange or inappropriate at all.

]]> By: Dave N. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518474 Dave N. Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:46:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518474 The Hebrew text is not an imperative, so you "may" want to check your translation :) God isn't generally ordered around in the Bible. The Hebrew text is not an imperative, so you “may” want to check your translation :) God isn’t generally ordered around in the Bible.

]]> By: Steve Newell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518453 Steve Newell Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:28:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518453 Same with we Lutheran. :) Same with we Lutheran. :)

]]> By: Matthew http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-22-the-benediction/comment-page-1#comment-518452 Matthew Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:24:34 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5011#comment-518452 Grammatically, it means the same thing in English. Sort of a potential/subjunctive sort of thing. Grammatically, it means the same thing in English. Sort of a potential/subjunctive sort of thing.

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