Comments on: The Evangelical Liturgy 21: The Invitation http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:02:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Gus http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-519576 Gus Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:10:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-519576 The problem is the idea that "getting saved" is some sort of mental choice manifested as a hand raising or a repeat-after-me prayer that "seals the deal" for eternity. This tradition may help people enter the "club" in whatever gathering they are attending, but it does not constitute true conversion as many modern Christians have been taught. Ultimately, I think this man-made tradition gives the wrong impression of what constitutes salvation, not to mention, it changes the consciousness of the gathering of saints from focusing on the God-made traditions to focusing on getting non-members to join the club. The problem is the idea that “getting saved” is some sort of mental choice manifested as a hand raising or a repeat-after-me prayer that “seals the deal” for eternity. This tradition may help people enter the “club” in whatever gathering they are attending, but it does not constitute true conversion as many modern Christians have been taught.

Ultimately, I think this man-made tradition gives the wrong impression of what constitutes salvation, not to mention, it changes the consciousness of the gathering of saints from focusing on the God-made traditions to focusing on getting non-members to join the club.

]]> By: brian k http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517823 brian k Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:55:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517823 the invitation is a tricky thing! As someone who "got saved" by going up front during a fire side meeting at a youth camp, the invitation has a special place in my heart, (though now I believe I was actually saved when I asked Jesus in my heart. & I'm saved over & over again by his love everyday I confess in him & believe!). One big problem we have is that people often want to make the invitation the "offical" moment that you receieve salvation. Instead of a public confession of your faith, or better yet a public confession of your need of Jesus Transforming power, (weither the need is freedom from sin, healing, confession, etc...) The placement of your troubles on the body of Christ. The second Problem is the focus can easily become on the pastor's ability to bring the "masses" to the alter (actually usally a pulpit). The real focus should be God, oh course, laying your burdens on him & your communion with your community of faith. I also believe public confession or conformation is very important in the life of the Church, I'm not entirely sure how much it matters to the individual but it helps the community know where you are on your walk & brings accountability to the Church. The invitation is not needed every Sunday, it requires to much emotion & soul searching for that ----just my opinion, peace the invitation is a tricky thing! As someone who “got saved” by going up front during a fire side meeting at a youth camp, the invitation has a special place in my heart, (though now I believe I was actually saved when I asked Jesus in my heart. & I’m saved over & over again by his love everyday I confess in him & believe!). One big problem we have is that people often want to make the invitation the “offical” moment that you receieve salvation. Instead of a public confession of your faith, or better yet a public confession of your need of Jesus Transforming power, (weither the need is freedom from sin, healing, confession, etc…) The placement of your troubles on the body of Christ. The second Problem is the focus can easily become on the pastor’s ability to bring the “masses” to the alter (actually usally a pulpit). The real focus should be God, oh course, laying your burdens on him & your communion with your community of faith. I also believe public confession or conformation is very important in the life of the Church, I’m not entirely sure how much it matters to the individual but it helps the community know where you are on your walk & brings accountability to the Church. The invitation is not needed every Sunday, it requires to much emotion & soul searching for that —-just my opinion, peace

]]> By: Joel Gonzaga http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517721 Joel Gonzaga Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:17:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517721 I like the idea of the "invitation time" being part of the printed worship order (otherwise known as liturgy) because it seems much more honest. One of the reasons why I left Pentecostalism is that I realized that many of the (alleged) spontaneous movements of the spirit were part of a planned out worship order orchestrated by the ministers. If it's going to happen, and it people feel that it is good for their churches, than I guess that's okay. But I drop the pretense of "following the spirit" please. I like the idea of the “invitation time” being part of the printed worship order (otherwise known as liturgy) because it seems much more honest.

One of the reasons why I left Pentecostalism is that I realized that many of the (alleged) spontaneous movements of the spirit were part of a planned out worship order orchestrated by the ministers.

If it’s going to happen, and it people feel that it is good for their churches, than I guess that’s okay. But I drop the pretense of “following the spirit” please.

]]> By: cermak_rd http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517679 cermak_rd Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:10:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517679 I've had the same thought. Christians sin, private confession was intended to help them recognize that they are reconciled to their Savior. I would think rededication is a similar concept. Why not use it that way, so that it recognizes the struggles going on in the people actually attending the church (I would imagine most attendees are not first comers). I’ve had the same thought. Christians sin, private confession was intended to help them recognize that they are reconciled to their Savior. I would think rededication is a similar concept. Why not use it that way, so that it recognizes the struggles going on in the people actually attending the church (I would imagine most attendees are not first comers).

]]> By: Jjoe http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517678 Jjoe Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:09:06 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517678 One church who is a facebook friend always has to publish the number of people who were saved at a service. I bet they do not like to end one scoreless! The invitation is focused on membership at my church. The day I was baptized, the Spirit moved the powerpoint guy to come down and get baptized, too. The pastor was surprised, the service ran long and the congregation was late for lunch, but it was a good day. One church who is a facebook friend always has to publish the number of people who were saved at a service. I bet they do not like to end one scoreless!

The invitation is focused on membership at my church. The day I was baptized, the Spirit moved the powerpoint guy to come down and get baptized, too. The pastor was surprised, the service ran long and the congregation was late for lunch, but it was a good day.

]]> By: Jonathan Hunnicutt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517642 Jonathan Hunnicutt Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:59:45 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517642 What about the charismatic tradition, where there is an invitation to receive Christ, and then an invitation to receive prayer? Though I didn't like it at first, I liked it more and more as I went to my church. Mainly because it was such an affront to my pride. How could I, a seminary student, need to go down to the front to receive prayer? How could I be in need of love and grace and the prayers of my pastor and my brothers and sisters? Wouldn't people think less of me? Well, God broke through all of that nonsense. For a liturgical church, I've thought that perhaps an invitation could be given for all who need prayer to come down before the eucharist, and people prayed with them, and perhaps priests/pastors anointed them with oil. And then they had a 'front row seat' to be watch the eucharistic liturgy, and be ministered to by the eucharist. Has anybody done anything like that before, or seen anything like that before? What about the charismatic tradition, where there is an invitation to receive Christ, and then an invitation to receive prayer?

Though I didn’t like it at first, I liked it more and more as I went to my church. Mainly because it was such an affront to my pride. How could I, a seminary student, need to go down to the front to receive prayer? How could I be in need of love and grace and the prayers of my pastor and my brothers and sisters? Wouldn’t people think less of me?

Well, God broke through all of that nonsense.

For a liturgical church, I’ve thought that perhaps an invitation could be given for all who need prayer to come down before the eucharist, and people prayed with them, and perhaps priests/pastors anointed them with oil. And then they had a ‘front row seat’ to be watch the eucharistic liturgy, and be ministered to by the eucharist.

Has anybody done anything like that before, or seen anything like that before?

]]> By: katie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517624 katie Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:27:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517624 The public invitation is the main reason I don't like going to church with my parents when we visit them. After a decent amount of pleading, he invites anyone who wants to walk the aisle. If no one does, he has everyone leave their seat, gather around the front, pray a repeat-after-me version of a sinner's prayer to make sure everyone is covered, and then asks for raised hands of anyone who "prayed that prayer for the first time". It's almost as if he feels like he didn't do his job if someone didn't come forward, as if coming forward really means anything in the first place. I went to that church the first 18 years of my life and have sat through many "heads bowed, eyes closed" invites which were at least dignified, but I think that the idea that aisle walking is the proof of anything spiritual is a slippery slope as you have said. The public invitation is the main reason I don’t like going to church with my parents when we visit them. After a decent amount of pleading, he invites anyone who wants to walk the aisle. If no one does, he has everyone leave their seat, gather around the front, pray a repeat-after-me version of a sinner’s prayer to make sure everyone is covered, and then asks for raised hands of anyone who “prayed that prayer for the first time”. It’s almost as if he feels like he didn’t do his job if someone didn’t come forward, as if coming forward really means anything in the first place. I went to that church the first 18 years of my life and have sat through many “heads bowed, eyes closed” invites which were at least dignified, but I think that the idea that aisle walking is the proof of anything spiritual is a slippery slope as you have said.

]]> By: Greg R http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517618 Greg R Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:12:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517618 maybe he was staring at his own hands.......just a thot: yeah, I don't care for the every eye closed, every head bowed thing for this very reason (among others) maybe he was staring at his own hands…….just a thot: yeah, I don’t care for the every eye closed, every head bowed thing for this very reason (among others)

]]> By: Greg R http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517617 Greg R Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:09:32 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517617 Even if the invitation is to meet with the pastor/elders after service, I think it needs to be provided. Now this would be an alternative that I could get jazzed about: meet some godly folks who cared about my soul for an extended period of time after the service, maybe set something up for later in the week, whatever......the focus is on pastoral care, the service doesn't get stretched out, and I don't have to mumble something in the midst of shuffles, crowds, flotsam, and jetsam. This would take some organizing, some planning, and the right kind of elders/pastors. Great idea. Greg R Even if the invitation is to meet with the pastor/elders after service, I think it needs to be provided.

Now this would be an alternative that I could get jazzed about: meet some godly folks who cared about my soul for an extended period of time after the service, maybe set something up for later in the week, whatever……the focus is on pastoral care, the service doesn’t get stretched out, and I don’t have to mumble something in the midst of shuffles, crowds, flotsam, and jetsam. This would take some organizing, some planning, and the right kind of elders/pastors.

Great idea.
Greg R

]]> By: Jim Huffman http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-evangelical-liturgy-21-the-invitation/comment-page-1#comment-517616 Jim Huffman Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:00:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4946#comment-517616 Growing up in the SBC, I know there were times in which folks responded to the invitation for spiritual comfort, counseling, or the like, and I wonder if that sometimes serves within that tradition similarly to private confession in other church bodies. Growing up in the SBC, I know there were times in which folks responded to the invitation for spiritual comfort, counseling, or the like, and I wonder if that sometimes serves within that tradition similarly to private confession in other church bodies.

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