Comments on: The Evangelical Liturgy 2: The Toolbox

By: Sensus Divinitatis News

Sensus Divinitatis News — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:20:00 +0000

The Evangelical Liturgy 2: The Toolbox…

This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News….

By: Links to the Evangelical Liturgy Series (so Far) | internetmonk.com

Links to the Evangelical Liturgy Series (so Far) | internetmonk.com — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:46:17 +0000

[...] 1) The Worship Setting 2) The Tools 3) The Leaders 4) The Congregation 5) The [...]

By: Steve Scott

Steve Scott — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:49:35 +0000

Also commonly used by church leaderships to lord it over the sheep by including unbiblical and extra biblical items. It can scare people away from committing to everything a church does. Sometimes, unless one commits to EVERYTHING a church does, the covenant bans believers from doing ANYTHING, thus creating an audience mentality. It can actually create the very thing it intends to avoid.

I’m not saying this happens in even most churches, but I and many people I’ve known have experienced just this very thing. And these people have vowed to never sign another one again out of conscience.

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:30:47 +0000

For example, most hymns written up to the early 1900s will have a last verse that talks about the leaving this world, the second coming, being in heaven, etc. By the time we get to mid-century, that seems to have largely disappeared.

Now that’s odd, Steve. I would have expected the trauma of World War One and its aftermath to put strong pressure in the opposite direction. That shock changed Victorian optimism to 20th Century pessimism, and in Christian circles changed the dominant eschatology from Post-Mil/Amil to Darbyite Pre-Mil/Pre-Trib, from building the Kingdom to passively awaiting the airlift out, from Tikkun Olam to It’s All Gonna Burn.

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:02:12 +0000

Michael, I know I am posting in this area late, now that we have gone on to other newer posts. But I just had to write regarding the “Lectionary.”

I am re-reading a book by Thomas Keating who is a Catholic priest and monk who teaches centering prayer/contemplative prayer. The book is The Mystery of Christ: The Liturgy As Spiritual Experience. In the preface, he writes, “Each year the Liturgical Year provides a complete course in moral, dogmatic, ascetical and mystical theology. More importantly, it empowers us to live the contemplative dimenion of the Gospel — the stable and mature relationship with the Spirit of God that enables us to act habitually under the inspiration of the gifts of the Spirit both in prayer and action.”

I will try to refrain from quoting him too much, but I do love him. I think between C.S. Lewis, N.T. Wright and Thomas Keating, I am all set!

By: Jim Bob

Jim Bob — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:36:45 +0000

No we can’t.

I mean, I can, but our church leadership (official and unofficial) doesn’t. It’s all about being modern, and having a concert-style service, with LOUD rock music and lights and gobos (can you believe this?) and videos and the place so dark during the sermon that I can’t even SEE my bible.

I’m trapped on the worship team, since I seem to be the only guitarist in the church who can rock, and actually show up to practices. And I hate it. Hate it. If we didn’t have a bunch of family connections in the church, we’d be gone yesterday.

Any pastors reading who are contemplating dumping all semblance of a church service in favor of turning it into a pseudo-Jesus Rock Concert, please reconsider. And don’t assume that reluctant participation implies buy-in.

I’m with Michael on at least 80% of this topic so far. Keep it comin’!!!

By: Jim Bob

Jim Bob — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:24:57 +0000

Now, this is a statement that I could sign on to. I was afraid it would be some kind of ingrown-sounding, controlling document. This one seems a very healthy, biblical statement.

And rather foreign to my current fellowship, I might add…

By: Derek

Derek — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:16:42 +0000

I find it humourous that some hymnals contain contemporary (I’ll not refer to some of them as modern) praise choruses in them. They sound really lame with just a piano or (I’ll bet) an organ to them.

I don’t mind hymns at all. But they should be accompanied well and in a respectable tempo. Too many singers or pianists or organists think that “hymn = slow”.

Further, since most of the congregation can’t READ music, let alone 4 part SATB harmonies, let’s save paper and only put the melody and chord structure (letter) to the notes. And make sure that the accompanist has all 4 parts because there really isn’t acompaniment to most hymns. Just the 4 parts.

I do not think we need church (membership) covenants. Maybe I think too low of churches as “organizations”, but I see the temptation to make the Church Covenant into a doctrinal statement about morality, including (but not limited to) abstension from the consumption of alcohol and tobacco products, language use, dancing, etc.

I might be off in that.

By: Charlie

Charlie — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:45:53 +0000

Austin,
The Lectionary actually rescued my devotional time. I am not Catholic but I use their online Lectionary that is produced by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. It’s simple and covers the OT, Psalms, and NT readings.

By: Charlie

Charlie — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:41:42 +0000

I so agree with much of what has been written, especially about tossing the hymnal. What a sad thing, what an amazing resource that we have simply discarded. The music, the responsive readings, the order, history, etc. Idiocy is a strong word, but I hear you. One encouragement is that I recently visited an emergent church in our area and they had a beautiful liturgy. While there were no hymnals they nonetheless made very tasteful and impressive use of their overhead projection system.