Comments on: The Evangelical Liturgy 11: The Corporate Confession

By: Jason Cebalo

Jason Cebalo — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:31:22 +0000

No, I dont think so, most of the men who drafted the original Anglican Prayerbook were Calvinists who believed in the imposibility of falling from grace.

By: Steve Polson

Steve Polson — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:08:44 +0000

OK, I’ll bite. Maybe it’s true to say “there is something altogether impossible to fault about the people of God, together and in familiar words, saying they are sinners and in need of grace” (it depends on what you mean by that). But the first two examples of corporate confessions you gave are “confessions” mitigated by simultaneous accusations (you’re accusing the people you are with of sin when you say “we” have erred) and don’t seem very sincere to me. If you are willing to publically pray “I have erred, I have strayed” it would seem more sincere.

The third example sounds awfully close to praying to Mary and the saints.

By: Miguel

Miguel — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:56:18 +0000

I just reread and stumbled upon the phrase: “prophetically unfashionable”. Brilliant. Two word adjective that describes much about the mission of the church. Hold that up to most churches and you will see just how deeply they really are fulfilling their mission.

By: Brad Boydston

Brad Boydston — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:07:08 +0000

I wasn’t saying that they lack a penitential dimension in the liturgy — only that they lack a “general confession.” If anything, even though there is no general confession (congregational confession and words of absolution), the idea of penitence is finely woven throughout the fabric of the Divine Liturgy.

My point is that from a broad historical perspective there has been more than one way to deal with penitence in the liturgy. Furthermore, the EO have an integrated approach that might be a model for others who want to talk about and deal with sin without adding a specific rite of confession into the liturgy.

By: Tom Meacham

Tom Meacham — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:08:57 +0000

As Mike says there are differences in language, and there are also differences in time periods. The Episcopal confession of sin that Mike is appreciating come from the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Liturgical Christians can be quite conservative in their liturgies, perpetuating old forms of language in worship verbatim for ages. Just think, in 1928 most U.S. Lutherans were still worshipping in German. Catholics worshipped in Latin until what, the ’40s or ’50s? Oh, and the Orthodox still use language from 300 AD!

So what sounds over the top to us may have sounded conversational at one time. In a sense corporate prayer needs to be familiar, but as a cradle Episcopalian I benefitted when worship was brought up to date (once every 40 years). I greatly enjoy using contemporary confessions of sin in my private prayers (David Coleman, Kathy Galloway) but I think they would elicit more blank stares than contrition in public worship.

By: L. Winthrop

L. Winthrop — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:33:59 +0000

The “Prayer Before Communion” is largely penitential:

“I believe and confess, Lord, that You are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first. I also believe that this is truly Your pure Body and that this is truly Your precious Blood. Therefore, I pray to You, have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, voluntary and involuntary, in word and deed, known and unknown. And make me worthy without condemnation to partake of Your pure Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. Amen.

“How shall I, who am unworthy, enter into the splendor of Your saints? If I dare to enter into the bridal chamber, my clothing will accuse me, since it is not a wedding garment; and being bound up, I shall be cast out by the angels. In Your love, Lord, cleanse my soul and save me.

“Loving Master, Lord Jesus Christ, my God, let not these holy Gifts be to my condemnation because of my unworthiness, but for the cleansing and sanctification of soul and body and the pledge of the future life and kingdom. It is good for me to cling to God and to place in Him the hope of my salvation.

“Receive me today, Son of God, as a partaker of Your mystical Supper. I will not reveal Your mystery to Your adversaries. Nor will I give You a kiss as did Judas. But as the thief I confess to You: Lord, remember me in Your kingdom.”

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:16:57 +0000

typo…meant to write “time OF worship.” Sorry.

By: JoanieD

JoanieD — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:16:12 +0000

I do the same, Anna. Even though I know we cannot really separate our religion from our politics, I still think it is possible to keep politics out of the time or worship or the Mass.

By: Anna A

Anna A — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:42:46 +0000

HUG,

That always bothers me, especially in prayer time. Being contrarian, I refuse to respond to those where I know I don’t agree. (Knowing the agenda behind some of them.)

By: Curtis

Curtis — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:14:08 +0000

I’ve read that the Confiteor was originally a sacristy prayer (ie. a prayer that the priest says privately before he goes into the assembly) and it only slowly got moved into the prayers at the foot of the altar, which is where it was placed until the changes of 1969. That would follow the Western pattern of moving certain sacristy prayers into a more collective setting (cf. the Introibo), which, I presume, did not happen in the East. The form used in the RCC dates back to the 8th century, at least, although it was not used in a collective setting until the 11th century, so it is a post-schism development.

Is anyone aware of when the Confiteor was introduced into the Divine Office? It is said at Compline, right before bed.

I guess another topic for iMonk to explore in this series might be “What ought a minister do to prepare himself for the liturgy?” Catholics and Orthodox have a whole bevy of vesting and purification prayers, before and after the liturgy. I’ve heard Anglicans do too, although I’m not sure. As for Lutherans, I haven’t a clue. I think they say a lot about how a minister approaches his work.