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	<title>Comments on: The Ecclesiastes Attitude</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Some Q tips for your heart sleeve &#124; lingamish</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-499593</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Q tips for your heart sleeve &#124; lingamish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-499593</guid>
		<description>[...] There is one blogger who blogs devotionally and does it quite well. Michael Spencer at iMonk almost always gets me to read to the final word. Here&#8217;s one he published on Friday:&#160; The Ecclesiastes Attitude. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There is one blogger who blogs devotionally and does it quite well. Michael Spencer at iMonk almost always gets me to read to the final word. Here&#8217;s one he published on Friday:&nbsp; The Ecclesiastes Attitude. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cey</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-375597</link>
		<dc:creator>cey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kevin:
&quot;the older I get the more I feel Christian talk is all hyperbole&quot; 

But it&#039;s ok for you to use hyperbole, I gather.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin:<br />
&#8220;the older I get the more I feel Christian talk is all hyperbole&#8221; </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s ok for you to use hyperbole, I gather.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Brague</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-375418</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Brague</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-375418</guid>
		<description>Matt P., if the church you attend teaches that “real” Christians are not allowed to have doubts, maybe there are no (or very few) “real” Christians in your church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt P., if the church you attend teaches that “real” Christians are not allowed to have doubts, maybe there are no (or very few) “real” Christians in your church.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-374986</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-374986</guid>
		<description>&quot;we live in a world away from God where horrible things happen. But I think there is a very important answer here, Christ. That God loves us so much that became one of us and suffered for us.&quot;

Joe,

Narrative like yours drives me mad. Am I the only one who feels like this is a classic non sequitur? If God loves us soooooooooooooo much that he became one of us and suffered for us, then why would God allow allow horrible things happen to us. The older I get (I am 33 now) the more I feel Christian talk is all hyperbole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;we live in a world away from God where horrible things happen. But I think there is a very important answer here, Christ. That God loves us so much that became one of us and suffered for us.&#8221;</p>
<p>Joe,</p>
<p>Narrative like yours drives me mad. Am I the only one who feels like this is a classic non sequitur? If God loves us soooooooooooooo much that he became one of us and suffered for us, then why would God allow allow horrible things happen to us. The older I get (I am 33 now) the more I feel Christian talk is all hyperbole.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-374837</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-374837</guid>
		<description>&quot;Scripute&quot;?  That should, of course, have been &quot;Scripture&quot;.  See what happens when wimmin git uppity, Chris? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Scripute&#8221;?  That should, of course, have been &#8220;Scripture&#8221;.  See what happens when wimmin git uppity, Chris? <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-374834</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-374834</guid>
		<description>Chris, I think the problem was you told Marcia &quot;You misinterpreted Scripute on submission.  You should have stuck up for yourself!&quot; when it was Marcia&#039;s husband who was the one with the problem, not Marcia.

It&#039;s something that, frankly, boggles me because it&#039;s not on the Catholic radar (we&#039;ve got other problems).  But from what I&#039;ve seen, it&#039;s men who are telling women to be submissive; men who are angsting over their &#039;headship&#039; and are they properly leading their families; an example I think Michael gave in an earlier post about a father lamenting that his daughter wanted to be an EMT instead of - as he conceived it - a proper Christian wife and mother who would stay at home and raise her family (what the girl is supposed to do in the interval between leaving school and landing a husband, I don&#039;t know).

Marcia, I won&#039;t give you any advice about what you should have/could have done.  I&#039;ll just say that Scripture can be manipulated by jerks to put other people down and make the jerks look good because they&#039;re &#039;Godly&#039; folk living by &#039;God&#039;s word&#039;. That ain&#039;t necessarily so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I think the problem was you told Marcia &#8220;You misinterpreted Scripute on submission.  You should have stuck up for yourself!&#8221; when it was Marcia&#8217;s husband who was the one with the problem, not Marcia.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s something that, frankly, boggles me because it&#8217;s not on the Catholic radar (we&#8217;ve got other problems).  But from what I&#8217;ve seen, it&#8217;s men who are telling women to be submissive; men who are angsting over their &#8216;headship&#8217; and are they properly leading their families; an example I think Michael gave in an earlier post about a father lamenting that his daughter wanted to be an EMT instead of &#8211; as he conceived it &#8211; a proper Christian wife and mother who would stay at home and raise her family (what the girl is supposed to do in the interval between leaving school and landing a husband, I don&#8217;t know).</p>
<p>Marcia, I won&#8217;t give you any advice about what you should have/could have done.  I&#8217;ll just say that Scripture can be manipulated by jerks to put other people down and make the jerks look good because they&#8217;re &#8216;Godly&#8217; folk living by &#8216;God&#8217;s word&#8217;. That ain&#8217;t necessarily so.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna A</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-162174</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-162174</guid>
		<description>Chris,  

   I have neither a blog, nor anything written about the whys of what I (and others) have observed.

I do have some guesses.  Frequently, the term &quot;social Justice&quot;  tends to indicate whether a group is more concerned about liturgy and worship or about people and their needs.  If there is more concern with people, of course they will tend to be friendlier.  If the parish tends to be more God orientated, then less friendly.  

Personally, there needs to be a balance, but I haven&#039;t seen it in practice.  (The social aspects are the biggest thing that I miss from the Baptist Church.  )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,  </p>
<p>   I have neither a blog, nor anything written about the whys of what I (and others) have observed.</p>
<p>I do have some guesses.  Frequently, the term &#8220;social Justice&#8221;  tends to indicate whether a group is more concerned about liturgy and worship or about people and their needs.  If there is more concern with people, of course they will tend to be friendlier.  If the parish tends to be more God orientated, then less friendly.  </p>
<p>Personally, there needs to be a balance, but I haven&#8217;t seen it in practice.  (The social aspects are the biggest thing that I miss from the Baptist Church.  )</p>
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		<title>By: Marcia</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-162103</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-162103</guid>
		<description>Chris, thanks for the apology.  No dialogue, though; I&#039;d never shut up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, thanks for the apology.  No dialogue, though; I&#8217;d never shut up.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-161065</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-161065</guid>
		<description>Anna said: &quot;friendlier places tend to be flakier in theology...&quot;

I have heard this from many. I wonder why? If you&#039;re reading Michael, I&#039;d love to see you blog on it (or maybe direct us to something you&#039;ve already written).

Marcia, I am not sure how I offended you, but I do apologize. I wish this wasn&#039;t off topic or inappropriate for this website, because I would love to read more of your story and dialogue with you. Alas, these pesky sidenotes (yours with f-bombs and angry stereotypes and mine with piper-isms) simply don&#039;t work as well as I would like. My heart breaks, and I genuinely wish you the best.

~Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna said: &#8220;friendlier places tend to be flakier in theology&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I have heard this from many. I wonder why? If you&#8217;re reading Michael, I&#8217;d love to see you blog on it (or maybe direct us to something you&#8217;ve already written).</p>
<p>Marcia, I am not sure how I offended you, but I do apologize. I wish this wasn&#8217;t off topic or inappropriate for this website, because I would love to read more of your story and dialogue with you. Alas, these pesky sidenotes (yours with f-bombs and angry stereotypes and mine with piper-isms) simply don&#8217;t work as well as I would like. My heart breaks, and I genuinely wish you the best.</p>
<p>~Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Anna A</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude/comment-page-1#comment-159968</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-ecclesiastes-attitude#comment-159968</guid>
		<description>Matt P.

   If you find one, please let all of us know.  I&#039;d still like to find one myself.  I&#039;m a better fit theologically where I am now, but have found different problems.  Confusion between Catholic culture and Catholic teachings (I&#039;ve actually been accused of not being Catholic because I don&#039;t pray the rosary);  a problem that the friendlier places tend to be flakier in theology and liturgy, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt P.</p>
<p>   If you find one, please let all of us know.  I&#8217;d still like to find one myself.  I&#8217;m a better fit theologically where I am now, but have found different problems.  Confusion between Catholic culture and Catholic teachings (I&#8217;ve actually been accused of not being Catholic because I don&#8217;t pray the rosary);  a problem that the friendlier places tend to be flakier in theology and liturgy, etc.</p>
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