Comments on: The Conversion Of The Evangelical Imagination http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:36:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: elzo http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4909 elzo Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:26:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4909 2 comments: I was always struck by the irony that most Christians I've talked to considered LOTR "good" and Harry Potter "bad". My "Dungeons and Dragons" days in High School were accompanied by reading of Tolkien as the "bible" of fantasy stuff. I'd say not really occultic but I never saw anything that would bring anyone to Christ. Anyway, my point is, if Dungeons and Dragons are considered "not good", how is it that LOTR is "good"? 2) I'm not worried about the idolatry aspect of imaginative works, I'm worried about the potential of talented people ultimately using the "gospel for gain". I.e, thomas kincade, lahaye, the guy who wrote "prayer of jabez (for everyone, for teens, for women, for recovering this or that). By using the imagination to "fill in the blanks", they have found a highly lucrative market. The creatives make gobs of money, and the sheep are shorn. Is this pleasing to God, or does he not care about this stuff? 2 comments: I was always struck by the irony that most Christians I’ve talked to considered LOTR “good” and Harry Potter “bad”. My “Dungeons and Dragons” days in High School were accompanied by reading of Tolkien as the “bible” of fantasy stuff. I’d say not really occultic but I never saw anything that would bring anyone to Christ. Anyway, my point is, if Dungeons and Dragons are considered “not good”, how is it that LOTR is “good”?

2) I’m not worried about the idolatry aspect of imaginative works, I’m worried about the potential of talented people ultimately using the “gospel for gain”. I.e, thomas kincade, lahaye, the guy who wrote “prayer of jabez (for everyone, for teens, for women, for recovering this or that). By using the imagination to “fill in the blanks”, they have found a highly lucrative market. The creatives make gobs of money, and the sheep are shorn. Is this pleasing to God, or does he not care about this stuff?

]]> By: tomsmedley http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4906 tomsmedley Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:17:16 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4906 Just finished Orson Scott Card's latest fantasy novel, Magic Street. I was disappointed at first with the ending, which had that definitive Mormon feel of wistful emptiness. Then, I realized that the real climax happened dozens of pages earlier, when one of the characters, a street preacher, begged for and received deliverance from a spirit that enabled him to see into hearts, and speak miracles into existence. Father Brown eventually converted G K Chesterton. I suspect a similar process may be underway with this Mormon writer who keeps creating believable Christian characters. Please join your prayers with mine for this literary friend of our family. (For 20 years, I've been challenged by the fact that our God had to raise up a MORMON to honor the name of Jesus in the genre of science fiction!) Just finished Orson Scott Card’s latest fantasy novel, Magic Street. I was disappointed at first with the ending, which had that definitive Mormon feel of wistful emptiness.

Then, I realized that the real climax happened dozens of pages earlier, when one of the characters, a street preacher, begged for and received deliverance from a spirit that enabled him to see into hearts, and speak miracles into existence.

Father Brown eventually converted G K Chesterton. I suspect a similar process may be underway with this Mormon writer who keeps creating believable Christian characters.

Please join your prayers with mine for this literary friend of our family.

(For 20 years, I’ve been challenged by the fact that our God had to raise up a MORMON to honor the name of Jesus in the genre of science fiction!)

]]> By: The Chick Voice http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4890 The Chick Voice Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:35:46 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4890 It has been, for years, my first instinct to reject any input from the evangelical church as it relates to the film and entertainment industry. At my church in 1977 the horrors of Franco Zeffirelli's "Jesus of Nazareth" was denounced from the pulpit (before, of course it was aired or seen). Less than a decade later, that film was considered one of the better treatments of Jesus' life and sold in Christian bookstores. In 1988 I was forbidden from taking my youth group to Universal Studios Theme Park while on choir tour, because they had released The Last Temptation (a film that would have been seen by very few were it not for the Christian "boycott" that ensued.) I was viewed with great concern that year when I refused to sign a petition denouncing something I hadn't seen. As for the Harry Potter controversy, when I read the first book it immediately brought me back to my delight as a child reading the Narnia series...........I have since read and very much enjoyed all the books in the series. Alas, I am clearly, once again, out of step with my brethren. It has been, for years, my first instinct to reject any input from the evangelical church as it relates to the film and entertainment industry. At my church in 1977 the horrors of Franco Zeffirelli’s “Jesus of Nazareth” was denounced from the pulpit (before, of course it was aired or seen). Less than a decade later, that film was considered one of the better treatments of Jesus’ life and sold in Christian bookstores. In 1988 I was forbidden from taking my youth group to Universal Studios Theme Park while on choir tour, because they had released The Last Temptation (a film that would have been seen by very few were it not for the Christian “boycott” that ensued.) I was viewed with great concern that year when I refused to sign a petition denouncing something I hadn’t seen. As for the Harry Potter controversy, when I read the first book it immediately brought me back to my delight as a child reading the Narnia series………..I have since read and very much enjoyed all the books in the series. Alas, I am clearly, once again, out of step with my brethren.

]]> By: Sean R. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4888 Sean R. Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:48:19 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4888 Michael: Great essay! I'm remembering the church where I grew up. When I was around 10 years old, we had a choir director who was very talented. She pushed the choir into doing some things they hadn't done before, almost "high-church" music in some cases. I remember it making an impression on me even as a 10 or 11 year old. My parents told me, that she used to get a lot of flack from some families in the church for doing "all that high fallutin' music". I'm particularly attuned to music. I play in my church music program. There are some examples of "praise music" we do that are really well done and imaginative. Unfortunately a lot of these type of songs are rehashed "four-chord wonder songs". (I can't judge the heart or intent of the person who wrote the song. I can however judge it's musical effect.) It's good to know that there are other people out there asking these questions. Michael:

Great essay!

I’m remembering the church where I grew up.
When I was around 10 years old, we had a
choir director who was very talented.
She pushed the choir into doing some
things they hadn’t done before, almost
“high-church” music in some cases.
I remember it making an impression on me
even as a 10 or 11 year old. My parents told me,
that she used to get a lot of flack from
some families in the church for doing
“all that high fallutin’ music”.

I’m particularly attuned to music. I play
in my church music program. There are some
examples of “praise music” we do that are really
well done and imaginative. Unfortunately a lot of
these type of songs are rehashed “four-chord
wonder songs”. (I can’t judge the heart or intent
of the person who wrote the song. I can however
judge it’s musical effect.)

It’s good to know that there are other people
out there asking these questions.

]]> By: Brian Pendell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4887 Brian Pendell Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:48:39 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4887 Quick comment: Being a Goth does not necessarily mean being into the occult or into Satanic rebellion. I have personally known people who became Christians without ceasing to be Goths. I mean, heck, there are Jews for Jesus ... why not Goths for Jesus? You can encounter one of their websites at http://www.christiangoth.com/ Respectfully, Brian P. Quick comment:

Being a Goth does not necessarily mean being into the occult or into Satanic rebellion. I have personally known people who became Christians without ceasing to be Goths. I mean, heck, there are Jews for Jesus … why not Goths for Jesus?

You can encounter one of their websites at

http://www.christiangoth.com/

Respectfully,

Brian P.

]]> By: Histrion (Jay H) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4886 Histrion (Jay H) Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:43:28 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4886 They may seek them out, but they will never release them. They may seek them out, but they will never release them.

]]> By: jnelson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4882 jnelson Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:27:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4882 Harry Potter is a story of good vs. evil much the same that LOTR and Narnia are. Where does this charge of being 'supportive of the demonic' come from? Harry Potter is a story of good vs. evil much the same that LOTR and Narnia are. Where does this charge of being ’supportive of the demonic’ come from?

]]> By: Broken Messenger http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4879 Broken Messenger Sun, 11 Dec 2005 04:10:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4879 <b>The fundamentalist war on the imagination is old. It is not that fundamentalism offers nothing to the imagination. It does, but there is in fundamentalism a deep-seated and deeply wrong belief that the second commandment was a “closure” order on the imagination. There is a deep suspicion that anything imaginative violates a divine order and seduces us in the wrong direction.</b> Personally, Michael, I think this is largely a myth. Evangelicals have embraced several fantasy series such as LotR and The Chronicles of Narnia. That said, this misperception is fueled by the discriminating tastes of conservatives that won't write blank checks to all types of fantasy that they deem harmful or supportive of the demonic, such as Harry Potter. Brad The fundamentalist war on the imagination is old. It is not that fundamentalism offers nothing to the imagination. It does, but there is in fundamentalism a deep-seated and deeply wrong belief that the second commandment was a “closure” order on the imagination. There is a deep suspicion that anything imaginative violates a divine order and seduces us in the wrong direction.

Personally, Michael, I think this is largely a myth. Evangelicals have embraced several fantasy series such as LotR and The Chronicles of Narnia. That said, this misperception is fueled by the discriminating tastes of conservatives that won’t write blank checks to all types of fantasy that they deem harmful or supportive of the demonic, such as Harry Potter.

Brad

]]> By: robertltjr http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4875 robertltjr Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:36:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4875 Preaching, teaching, sharing the gospel, etc. with bold imagination is absolutely essential, and evangelicals are largely poor at it. In our defense, this is partly due to a fear of not letting our sermons be the point of the passages we are trying to teach. Some of the most imaginitive and creative sermons I've ever heard failed to accurately interpret any text or, even worse, misinterpreted a text for the sake of matching it up with his/her imaginative story-telling. Still, we can do better. Excellent thoughts from Michael here. Preaching, teaching, sharing the gospel, etc. with bold imagination is absolutely essential, and evangelicals are largely poor at it. In our defense, this is partly due to a fear of not letting our sermons be the point of the passages we are trying to teach. Some of the most imaginitive and creative sermons I’ve ever heard failed to accurately interpret any text or, even worse, misinterpreted a text for the sake of matching it up with his/her imaginative story-telling. Still, we can do better. Excellent thoughts from Michael here.

]]> By: bluejean http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination/comment-page-1#comment-4874 bluejean Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:31:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-conversion-of-the-evangelical-imagination#comment-4874 Well, growing up in a very fundamental background, I was encouraged to put down my art supplies, put down my creativity and instead take up rote memorization. This of course left me feeling as though something was lacking and I left the church for a while. God CREATED. Our creativity comes from him and we should embrace that. Here, we have opened a Christian based art studio, and the reaction has been amazing. We have art classes, and ask people to worship God in creative ways. Its been nothing more than freeing for me. I can finally say, "I am an artist" and God made me that way. Why should the creative only be the realm of those who don't know Christ? I think the church's unwillingness to accept ALL of mankind has been wrong. I'm tired of seeing churches expecting people to give up their individuality, and expression of self, for ties, and blue suits on Sunday morning. If that is who you are then fine, but most people I know want to be able to participate in a church and come as who they are, and not who the church expects them to be. Funny, I jumped online for a break from my creating (working on Christmas gifts) and I'm shown this post. Good job Michael. Well, growing up in a very fundamental background, I was encouraged to put down my art supplies, put down my creativity and instead take up rote memorization. This of course left me feeling as though something was lacking and I left the church for a while. God CREATED. Our creativity comes from him and we should embrace that. Here, we have opened a Christian based art studio, and the reaction has been amazing. We have art classes, and ask people to worship God in creative ways. Its been nothing more than freeing for me. I can finally say, “I am an artist” and God made me that way. Why should the creative only be the realm of those who don’t know Christ? I think the church’s unwillingness to accept ALL of mankind has been wrong. I’m tired of seeing churches expecting people to give up their individuality, and expression of self, for ties, and blue suits on Sunday morning. If that is who you are then fine, but most people I know want to be able to participate in a church and come as who they are, and not who the church expects them to be. Funny, I jumped online for a break from my creating (working on Christmas gifts) and I’m shown this post. Good job Michael.

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