Comments on: The Coming Evangelical Collapse (3): Good or Bad?

By: The Coming Evangelical Collapse, Pt. 3- Raw Religion

The Coming Evangelical Collapse, Pt. 3- Raw Religion — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:02:00 +0000

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By: My Prediction: The Coming Evangelical Collapse (1-3)Internet Monk « Tents of Issachar

Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:44:44 +0000

[...] http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-coming-evangelical-collapse-3-good-or-bad [...]

By: Patrick Henry

Patrick Henry — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 07:28:28 +0000

James Joyce once told someone that he had lost faith in the RCC (Not Royal Crown Cola). The person asked him, “Did you become a Protestant?” Joyce replied, “I said I lost my faith not my reason.”
Christianity gets weaker and will disappear because it has become fully Judaized, Zionized, and Jewified. Maybe some of the Eastern Orthodox Churches will hang on, especially the Palestinian branch. The Christianity that has betrayed Palestine deserves to disappear. GOOD RIDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH!

By: Alex

Alex — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:52:25 +0000

Mike,
Thank you for your well thought out assessment of the near future of the church. It is a shame that we focus so much on the organization, and so little on the organism. The Life of the Church will always take care of His body. But the form of the body in organization is open to any change He wishes. It does not matter what happens to the organization, as long as the health of the organism thrives. Regrettably, the organization has hindered the health of the organism, so I tend to concur with your assessment. Father cares more for the organism and will cut out like a cancer the organizations that harm the organism.

By: Jeff Goins

Jeff Goins — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:23:26 +0000

Great series. I especially like this bit:

“I think we can rejoice that in the ruins of the evangelical collapse new forms of Christian vitality and ministry will be born. New kinds of church structure, new uses of gifts, new ways to develop leaders and do the mission- all these will appear as the evangelical collapse occurs.”

It seems that the church has approximately three choices to make in the face of an increasingly more secular culture: resist, conform, or redeem. As you’ve already noted, some will resist (most likely the SBC), others will conform (maybe some mainliners and emerging folk), and hopefully, a remnant will redeem the culture and see a new Christianity rise from the ashes.

Thanks for not telling the church that it should simply be more relevant, listen to trendier music, or just stop being so darn worldly. I appreciated your biblical, balanced, yet realistic approach to the future of evangelicalism.

By: F James

F James — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:38:30 +0000

IM, don’t you think it is the world that is “collapsing?” All around us and to the extent it exists in us? So the worldliness, the idolatries, of the evangelicals, is collapsing with all the other things of this world, which will be ultimately dissolved. So what else is new? We have parallels, after all, in Israel and Judah. Hasn’t the “church” equaled or even at times surpassed them in darkness over the last 2000 years? Hasn’t judgment begun with the household of God? You think you see the future of these things? The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but can you tell from where it came or where it is going?

By: Kenneth Schmidt

Kenneth Schmidt — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:15:39 +0000

I, frankly, would deplore the end of the seminary system. The little Lutheran church of which I recently was a member was being served by a lay-deacon who went though a locally-based non-academic training program and I have to say the man (though friendly and kind) was absolutely cueless theologically.

If American Christianity, both Evangelical and non-evangelical, dosen’t develop traditions toward a theologically astute laity, then the church will disappear on this continent. In this era of near universal literacy, why are so many Christians uninterested in the study of dogma?

By: One of the Branches

One of the Branches — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:51:33 +0000

How can the “church” collapse. Thats impossible. What is collapsing is what we THINK is the church. But the church is really the assembly, the body of Yeshua (Jesus). Buildings may be evacuated, the denominational bodies may fall, but the church will always be the church and be doing what the church is supposed to be doing, or its simply just not the church at all. If you want the blessing of God on your congregations take care of the poor, the orphans, the widows. Love God with all our heart and Loving our neighbors – find out what pleases Him. Obeying God has become very unpopular and uncool. Well, the body of Yeshua will always do what Yeshua did, or simply, they are not the body at all! Pastors have become philosophers and instead of shepherds they have become motivational speakers. I really don’t go to church to find out what a man has to say. I want to know what God has to say. Read the word to your congregations. Ask them what THEY think it means. You may be surprised at how the spoken word in and of itself transforms people. We talk about how prayer is taken out of the schools? Well, I noticed the Word has been taken out of the church’s message. Yeshua told us to preach “Repent, for the Kingdom is near.” Yet we would tell him to stop preaching that!

By: Cindy

Cindy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:24:00 +0000

I listened to Chris Fabry live today and heard you for the first time and then was directed to this site.

Thank you, thank you, for your insights and wisdom. I am so thankful that I can read/hear your well articulated thoughts instead of just getting frustrated on top of my own “soap box”.

I grew up in western Canada raised in very sheltered Christian/evangelical/fundamental background. It has taken years to shed the unnecessary, hurtful extras that come with the evangelical subculture. I am still most likely one of those pias, self righteous ones, but also rebellious Christians that don’t want to follow all the “rules”. I am deeply impressed with Christ and redemption and his grace and love, but wholly unimpressed with what shows up from the American evangelical subculture especially when things don’t go their way. i.e. moral values and a non-republican president. I desperately wish the gospel of Christ could emerge easily and readily without all these confusing extras. But then again this is a very fallen world. If we could just get that. If we could just get the fallen part and not seek to raise ourselves up as if we could develop such a perfect godly kingdom simply because we are “Christians”. I too want to take shots at it.

I am left with the what now? I am left with the reality that the cross was and is good enough. God is much bigger than all of this. The truth of Christ and His redemptive plan is and will not be threatened and cannot be threatened by our prideful ignorance.

Enough from me,
Cindy

By: Devin Rose

Devin Rose — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:54:27 +0000

“Will the evangelicalizing of Catholic and Orthodox communions be a good development? One can hope for greater unity and appreciation, but the history of these developments seems to be much more about a renewed vigor to â€œevangelizeâ€ Protestantism in the name of unity. For those communions, itâ€™s a good development, but probably not for evangelicals themselves.”

Full disclosure: I’m Catholic.

On balance we should recognize that Protestants have been “evangelizing” predominantly Catholic countries in Latin America for a long time.

As a Christian (both when I was Protestant and now as a Catholic), I took Jesus prayer in John 17 for unity seriously, but there can only be unity in the fullness of the truth. A scattering of home churches or other small, unconnected Christian groups who make their own statements of faith and decide their own doctrine, leads to disunity: mutually exclusive doctrines about important matters of the faith. We cannot become unified in the truth by further dividing into more and more groups or by creating yet another church, but only by finding the visible Church Christ established.

Of course I understand that most Protestants, especially evangelicals, do not believe Christ established a visible Church, but what are the consequences we see in Protestantism of no visible Church, which then has no visible authority and no protection against teaching error? Doctrinal chaos and the widespread promulgation of error, even on fundamental tenets of our Christian faith.

I would argue it is not good for evangelicals to be split into even more mini-denominations or home churches than they are now, but if the claims of the Catholic Church are true, then it is most certainly a “good development” for evangelical Christians to enter full communion with the Church and come to believe in the fullness of the truth.

If there is no visible Church, no binding authority given by Christ to men on earth, and no safeguard from teaching error, then every man for himself, and yes, establish your own home church or You-church and try to find some people who believe close to whatever you believe and worship with them.

I hope that the coming evangelical collapse causes evangelicals to ponder and investigate what they believe and why they believe it, including the tenets of the Reformation and the 1500 years of Christianity before the Reformation.