Comments on: The Church Membership Question: Interview with Dr. Nathan Finn http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Isaac http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-275755 Isaac Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:00:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-275755 Hello, A little off topic. What about the mentally handicapped and baptism? How do Baptists approach that situation? Just curious. Isaac Hello,

A little off topic. What about the mentally handicapped and baptism? How do Baptists approach that situation?

Just curious.

Isaac

]]> By: John http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-275242 John Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:37:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-275242 I find it hard to believe that you can put an age to someone's ability to express their conversion experience or their understanding of what church membership entails. I know those under the age of 10 who very well know whom they have believed in, as well as understand the serious comittment involved in true church communion. By the same token, I know those in their '30s that would have problems with both. Another reason to have the pastor interview the candidate for both baptism and membership and make the determination based on the individual regardless of age. I find it hard to believe that you can put an age to someone’s ability to express their conversion experience or their understanding of what church membership entails. I know those under the age of 10 who very well know whom they have believed in, as well as understand the serious comittment involved in true church communion. By the same token, I know those in their ’30s that would have problems with both. Another reason to have the pastor interview the candidate for both baptism and membership and make the determination based on the individual regardless of age.

]]> By: Wyman Richardson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-274222 Wyman Richardson Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:42:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-274222 Michael, This interview is tremendous, and I'd like to thank Dr. Finn for his answers. This conversation is especially pertinent to the church I pastor and I've forwarded this on to a number of folks in our church. We're having this kind of conversation right now. It is a difficult, occasionally painful, but ultimately worthwhile topic to consider and appropriately act upon. It certainly is the issue for our times, at least as far as Baptists are concerned. Again, many thanks. Wyman Richardson Michael,

This interview is tremendous, and I’d like to thank Dr. Finn for his answers. This conversation is especially pertinent to the church I pastor and I’ve forwarded this on to a number of folks in our church. We’re having this kind of conversation right now. It is a difficult, occasionally painful, but ultimately worthwhile topic to consider and appropriately act upon.

It certainly is the issue for our times, at least as far as Baptists are concerned.

Again, many thanks.

Wyman Richardson

]]> By: Rob H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-274119 Rob H Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:10:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-274119 Michael, Good questions. Good answers. Very helpful interview. Thanks. Michael,
Good questions. Good answers. Very helpful interview. Thanks.

]]> By: Ronda http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-274082 Ronda Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:06:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-274082 I find this discussion interesting in that Dr. Finn seems to assume that baptism equals church membership. If we drop that assumption, baptism equals obedience unto Christ as a one who has received salvation in Christ Jesus. Then church membership is about this question: To which local church does a baptized believer give one's commitment/join in covenant community? I also find it interesting the assumption (in the midst of this discussion) that only church members can participate in communion, but isn't communion for all baptized believers? I find this discussion interesting in that Dr. Finn seems to assume that baptism equals church membership. If we drop that assumption, baptism equals obedience unto Christ as a one who has received salvation in Christ Jesus. Then church membership is about this question: To which local church does a baptized believer give one’s commitment/join in covenant community?

I also find it interesting the assumption (in the midst of this discussion) that only church members can participate in communion, but isn’t communion for all baptized believers?

]]> By: RonH http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-273774 RonH Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:03:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-273774 I have no major problem with the policy you've articulated. IMO, it's the only consistent approach a Baptist can take. I've also never run across a church that does that (I'm not making a statement about how common those churches are... just that I've never encountered one). What I *have* seen are kids, roughly the same age, where one is served communion and the other isn't because the first was "fortunate" enough to have been baptized in a church that baptizes young kids and the second wasn't (both having made professions of faith, of course). While I completely agree with you that the full membership thing isn't an issue for kids (or even youth), I think the communion thing *is* (especially if the church does it with any degree of regularity and actually presents it as significant). More specifically, being inconsistent about its administration communicates something distinctly negative to our kids. Your approach is practical. Unfortunately, I've never encountered it in practice and I've never heard it described by advocates of raising the age for baptism. I have no major problem with the policy you’ve articulated. IMO, it’s the only consistent approach a Baptist can take. I’ve also never run across a church that does that (I’m not making a statement about how common those churches are… just that I’ve never encountered one). What I *have* seen are kids, roughly the same age, where one is served communion and the other isn’t because the first was “fortunate” enough to have been baptized in a church that baptizes young kids and the second wasn’t (both having made professions of faith, of course). While I completely agree with you that the full membership thing isn’t an issue for kids (or even youth), I think the communion thing *is* (especially if the church does it with any degree of regularity and actually presents it as significant). More specifically, being inconsistent about its administration communicates something distinctly negative to our kids.

Your approach is practical. Unfortunately, I’ve never encountered it in practice and I’ve never heard it described by advocates of raising the age for baptism.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-273755 iMonk Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:06:06 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-273755 I guess I am just not hung up on this. I have been in youth work my entire adult life, and if I had to tell a new family that at our church, full membership including communion was reserved for those age 12 and over, I wouldn't hesitate to have that conversation. I also wouldn't be surprised if a family with a baptized child choose not to come to a church on account of that policy, but that is something you deal with up front. I am not so sure that young people are as likely to advocate full church membership for children as many adults think. I see it could be a bit of a bump, but it would be a small one with a family who was choosing a church that was open about a more serious approach. I can't imagine this family would be surprised after the fact. I guess I am just not hung up on this. I have been in youth work my entire adult life, and if I had to tell a new family that at our church, full membership including communion was reserved for those age 12 and over, I wouldn’t hesitate to have that conversation. I also wouldn’t be surprised if a family with a baptized child choose not to come to a church on account of that policy, but that is something you deal with up front.

I am not so sure that young people are as likely to advocate full church membership for children as many adults think.

I see it could be a bit of a bump, but it would be a small one with a family who was choosing a church that was open about a more serious approach. I can’t imagine this family would be surprised after the fact.

]]> By: RonH http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-273753 RonH Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:58:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-273753 I don't have a problem not receiving a baptized child as a full church member. However, Dr. Finn was suggesting that a child shouldn't be baptized until he is old enough to enter into a membership covenant. My point was that this practice has a side effect. Most Baptists I know of the Reformed variety believe that only baptized persons should take communion (aka Lord's Supper). If you postpone baptism for the sake of church membership, you're also postponing participation in communion. That's fine in principle... This is how Anabaptist groups like the Amish and Hutterites do things. However, in the case of the 7-year-old who was baptized at another church, what do you do? I don't have a problem with withholding full membership, but would you withhold communion on the same grounds? I personally have never heard of a Baptist church refusing communion to baptized children, even when those kids aren't considered full members. But if at the same time you bar non-baptized persons from communion, it gives rise to the situation I mentioned where the 7-year-old is communed "on a technicality" and the 11-year-old isn't because effectively she's considered to be too young for membership. I'm all for the SBC getting a grip on its idea of membership (I attend an SBC, Founders-friendly church). However, I get concerned that in zeal for purity we may end up doing harm to our own children. I welcome the calls for membership reform, but I have yet to read anyone addressing the problems that arise when practices across SBC churches are still so divergent. I don’t have a problem not receiving a baptized child as a full church member. However, Dr. Finn was suggesting that a child shouldn’t be baptized until he is old enough to enter into a membership covenant. My point was that this practice has a side effect. Most Baptists I know of the Reformed variety believe that only baptized persons should take communion (aka Lord’s Supper). If you postpone baptism for the sake of church membership, you’re also postponing participation in communion. That’s fine in principle… This is how Anabaptist groups like the Amish and Hutterites do things. However, in the case of the 7-year-old who was baptized at another church, what do you do? I don’t have a problem with withholding full membership, but would you withhold communion on the same grounds? I personally have never heard of a Baptist church refusing communion to baptized children, even when those kids aren’t considered full members. But if at the same time you bar non-baptized persons from communion, it gives rise to the situation I mentioned where the 7-year-old is communed “on a technicality” and the 11-year-old isn’t because effectively she’s considered to be too young for membership.

I’m all for the SBC getting a grip on its idea of membership (I attend an SBC, Founders-friendly church). However, I get concerned that in zeal for purity we may end up doing harm to our own children. I welcome the calls for membership reform, but I have yet to read anyone addressing the problems that arise when practices across SBC churches are still so divergent.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-273730 iMonk Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:10:06 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-273730 I don't believe anyone is ever even thinking of "invalidating" a baptism. What might be different is whether the child is received as a full church member. Baptists have a category for those who are part of a congregation but not fully members: "Watchcare." Such a category- or similar- would be how that situation would be handled. Baptism wouldn't be "invalid." At least as I read his answer. Good to hear from you. Peace MS I don’t believe anyone is ever even thinking of “invalidating” a baptism. What might be different is whether the child is received as a full church member.

Baptists have a category for those who are part of a congregation but not fully members: “Watchcare.” Such a category- or similar- would be how that situation would be handled. Baptism wouldn’t be “invalid.” At least as I read his answer.

Good to hear from you.

Peace

MS

]]> By: SusanF http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn/comment-page-1#comment-273722 SusanF Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:41:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-church-membership-question-interview-with-dr-nathan-finn#comment-273722 I'm anal enough to follow up with apologies for misspelling 'intriguing.' I’m anal enough to follow up with apologies for misspelling ‘intriguing.’

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