Comments on: The Christian and Mental Illness VI: What Does The Gospel Say? http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Streamline Refinancenance http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-72642 Streamline Refinancenance Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:08:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-72642 <strong>Streamline Refinancenance...</strong> duster deportment Katharine,Re Mortgage Uknance [url=http://www.ahomeloanmortgagerefinanceloan.com/#]Re Mortgage Uknance[/url] http://www.ahomeloanmortgagerefinanceloan.com/# ... Streamline Refinancenance…

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]]> By: bob smietana http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-4776 bob smietana Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:03:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-4776 Michael The most moving confirmation I have ever seen came this spring when a young man named Aaron Barg, who has Trisomy 13, was confirmed in our church. (He had been baptized as an infant.) Aaron can't speak or talk, is confined to a wheelchair which he can move but can't steer much, and is not "capable" of the kind of intellectual activity that confirmation requires. Because his vision and hearing and limited, in order to get Aaron's attention, you have to stand right in front of him and stare right into his eyes. Here's what our pastor said about Aaron during his sermon that Sunday: This is what Aaron teaches us about knowing God and letting God be our teacher. First, it does not work to shout a greeting to God as we rush by him, in a hurry to be busy. If you want to know God, to be taught by him, to follow Christ, you must touch him. Some of you said that you like camp because you get rid of all the distractions and you feel you can really listen to God, you can understand the messages. That is true anywhere. To follow God you have to come into his presence, you have to quiet your mind and heart. You touch God by singing a song of praise or by reading a Psalm or praying with praise and thanks. Next, we must draw close to God. You can't have a relationship with God when you are always distant from him. There must be a way to draw close, to listen to what God is saying. Sometimes he uses a quiet voice--you may have to come closer than is comfortable for you. We draw close to God by listening to his Word, by receiving the sacraments, by engaging in worship. That is when we receive his blessing. Finally, if Jesus is to be our teacher, then we must be willing to be guided by him. Aaron likes to wander around, to wheel all over, kind of randomly. Much of the time that is OK, he is pretty good at it really. But he also needs someone to push him where he needs to be, and he needs some protection. Often that is Steve or Susan, sometimes it is people in the church who take him for walks, sometimes it is the fact that his companion dog Sandy is right by him, giving some protection. You are much like Aaron. We all are. We like to wheel around on our own, exploring whatever seems interesting. We often need guidance and protection. When we actually do God's will, we are being guided by him. When we give our lives in service to Christ, when we bear witness to Christ, when we are involved in Mission, when we use the gifts of the Holy Spirit in ministry, that is when we are in fact following Jesus. That is the direction that leads to life. Michael

The most moving confirmation I have ever seen came this spring when a young man named Aaron Barg, who has Trisomy 13, was confirmed in our church. (He had been baptized as an infant.) Aaron can’t speak or talk, is confined to a wheelchair which he can move but can’t steer much, and is not “capable” of the kind of intellectual activity that confirmation requires. Because his vision and hearing and limited, in order to get Aaron’s attention, you have to stand right in front of him and stare right into his eyes.

Here’s what our pastor said about Aaron during his sermon that Sunday:

This is what Aaron teaches us about knowing God and letting God be our teacher. First, it does not work to shout a greeting to God as we rush by him, in a hurry to be busy. If you want to know God, to be taught by him, to follow Christ, you must touch him. Some of you said that you like camp because you get rid of all the distractions and you feel you can really listen to God, you can understand the messages. That is true anywhere. To follow God you have to come into his presence, you have to quiet your mind and heart. You touch God by singing a song of praise or by reading a Psalm or praying with praise and thanks.

Next, we must draw close to God. You can’t have a relationship with God when you are always distant from him. There must be a way to draw close, to listen to what God is saying. Sometimes he uses a quiet voice–you may have to come closer than is comfortable for you. We draw close to God by listening to his Word, by receiving the sacraments, by engaging in worship. That is when we receive his blessing.

Finally, if Jesus is to be our teacher, then we must be willing to be guided by him. Aaron likes to wander around, to wheel all over, kind of randomly. Much of the time that is OK, he is pretty good at it really. But he also needs someone to push him where he needs to be, and he needs some protection. Often that is Steve or Susan, sometimes it is people in the church who take him for walks, sometimes it is the fact that his companion dog Sandy is right by him, giving some protection.

You are much like Aaron. We all are. We like to wheel around on our own, exploring whatever seems interesting. We often need guidance and protection. When we actually do God’s will, we are being guided by him. When we give our lives in service to Christ, when we bear witness to Christ, when we are involved in Mission, when we use the gifts of the Holy Spirit in ministry, that is when we are in fact following Jesus. That is the direction that leads to life.

]]> By: Copycat http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-4773 Copycat Thu, 01 Dec 2005 04:16:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-4773 Believing that mental illness – not to be confused with spinal and brain illnesses – is behavioral and spiritual is not “charismatic.” I worked as a chaplain in a large mental institute and conducted various studies with the “mentally ill,” and have concluded with confidence that so-called mental illnesses are spiritual. There is no proof or evidence of “chemical imbalances.” Most mental problems have a root problem of ‘memory.’ When I speak of memory, I am referring to the actual conclusions the person has drawn while encountering the tragic experiences such as: drug abuse, sexual abuse, bullying, or even milder things that lead the people to draw conclusions about themselves.' The memories must be confronted with Gospel therapy, not drug therapy or even the so-called talk-therapy. These are band-aids, that, when removed, will allow the strange behavior to resurge. There is room for an argument of “legalized band-aids,” where drugs are used to physically stop the person from hurting themselves or others, then slowly wean them off while giving them Gospel counsel. This, though, is dangerous to the brain, as most of these psychiatric drugs actually cause far more memory loss than what is necessary, giving a person a loss of personal identity. What happens in these mental institutes and counseling centers is very, very sad. Many of those people know inside that what is being done to them is wrong and so they get even more disturbed, thus getting trapped in the vicious circle of the psychiatric industry; an industry created, not to heal but to gain as many permanent clients it can. Many of them become “lifers” in the institutes and many others simply kill themselves’ for a quick escape. And the very grieving part of all this is that most Christians will not even get near a mental institute or, for that matter, a mental person. Sincerely, Mike Spreng [MODERATOR NOTE: I have approved this comment, but I find its assertions- esp that there are no chemical imbalances- to be totally contrary to what I believe personally. This is as open a forum as I can maintain, and I realize this is an offensive post to many who will read it. I publish it because the auther is Reformed, and I think this view is common in Reformed groups.- MSpencer] Believing that mental illness – not to be confused with spinal and brain illnesses – is behavioral and spiritual is not “charismatic.” I worked as a chaplain in a large mental institute and conducted various studies with the “mentally ill,” and have concluded with confidence that so-called mental illnesses are spiritual. There is no proof or evidence of “chemical imbalances.” Most mental problems have a root problem of ‘memory.’ When I speak of memory, I am referring to the actual conclusions the person has drawn while encountering the tragic experiences such as: drug abuse, sexual abuse, bullying, or even milder things that lead the people to draw conclusions about themselves.’ The memories must be confronted with Gospel therapy, not drug therapy or even the so-called talk-therapy. These are band-aids, that, when removed, will allow the strange behavior to resurge. There is room for an argument of “legalized band-aids,” where drugs are used to physically stop the person from hurting themselves or others, then slowly wean them off while giving them Gospel counsel. This, though, is dangerous to the brain, as most of these psychiatric drugs actually cause far more memory loss than what is necessary, giving a person a loss of personal identity. What happens in these mental institutes and counseling centers is very, very sad. Many of those people know inside that what is being done to them is wrong and so they get even more disturbed, thus getting trapped in the vicious circle of the psychiatric industry; an industry created, not to heal but to gain as many permanent clients it can. Many of them become “lifers” in the institutes and many others simply kill themselves’ for a quick escape. And the very grieving part of all this is that most Christians will not even get near a mental institute or, for that matter, a mental person.

Sincerely,

Mike Spreng

[MODERATOR NOTE: I have approved this comment, but I find its assertions- esp that there are no chemical imbalances- to be totally contrary to what I believe personally. This is as open a forum as I can maintain, and I realize this is an offensive post to many who will read it. I publish it because the auther is Reformed, and I think this view is common in Reformed groups.- MSpencer]

]]> By: cks http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-4772 cks Thu, 01 Dec 2005 00:53:55 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-4772 I’m a new poster here, so I’ll make this brief. Just wanted to make a comment anent mental illness and a Christian worldview. I do tend to read the biblical passages regarding demon possession literally. To do otherwise, to my mind, does an injustice to the biblical text. Having said that, let me also say that my own experience has borne out the usefulness of modern psychotropic medication. For years, I struggled with depression. Well, that’s probably too strong a word for my condition. Probably, chronic dysthymia is the proper clinical term. But about two years ago, it began to seriously impair my functional abilities. After lots of soul searching and the help of a compassionate Christian doctor, I sought chemical relief. I found that a certain drug, an SSNRI to be specific, really, dare I say “physically,” changed things for the better for me–and in a way that older SSRIs (like Paxil and Prozac) just didn’t do. The chronic dysthymia, on medication, is, by and large, gone now. I still have acute depressive episodes (who doesn’t?), but I’m now able to function much better than before. I have a family history of depression, so it is not surprising that I have a tendency that way as well. I praise God for the modern drug that has radically changed the functioning of my brain. And I still believe that my condition is primarily a consequence of the Fall. I don’t see a radical tension between modern psychiatric practice and a thorough-going biblical worldview, but that’s just my own non-professional opinion. I’m a new poster here, so I’ll make this brief. Just wanted to make a comment anent mental illness and a Christian worldview. I do tend to read the biblical passages regarding demon possession literally. To do otherwise, to my mind, does an injustice to the biblical text. Having said that, let me also say that my own experience has borne out the usefulness of modern psychotropic medication. For years, I struggled with depression. Well, that’s probably too strong a word for my condition. Probably, chronic dysthymia is the proper clinical term. But about two years ago, it began to seriously impair my functional abilities. After lots of soul searching and the help of a compassionate Christian doctor, I sought chemical relief. I found that a certain drug, an SSNRI to be specific, really, dare I say “physically,” changed things for the better for me–and in a way that older SSRIs (like Paxil and Prozac) just didn’t do. The chronic dysthymia, on medication, is, by and large, gone now. I still have acute depressive episodes (who doesn’t?), but I’m now able to function much better than before. I have a family history of depression, so it is not surprising that I have a tendency that way as well. I praise God for the modern drug that has radically changed the functioning of my brain. And I still believe that my condition is primarily a consequence of the Fall. I don’t see a radical tension between modern psychiatric practice and a thorough-going biblical worldview, but that’s just my own non-professional opinion.

]]> By: mort_chien http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-4770 mort_chien Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:25:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-4770 Your posts drew me to Is 58. The full chapter should be read, and though the subject is what qualifies as a true fast, the passage can, without loss, be generalized to include our dealings with one another. The complaint of God is in vs. 1-5, the corrective is vs. 6-8 of which I have included the following from The New American Standard Bible, 1995 Update, (La Habra, California: The Lockman Foundation) 1996. The blessing promised to those who obey is in vs 9-12. Think about those when you consider the state of American Christianity. “Is this not the fast which I choose, To loosen the bonds of wickedness, To undo the bands of the yoke, And to let the oppressed go free And break every yoke? “Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry And bring the homeless poor into the house; When you see the naked, to cover him; And not to hide yourself from your own flesh? That last phrase is a killer isn't it? I really do not want to see the hurting, diseased, mentally unstable, etc, etc. Kind of like in the George C. Scott version of the Christmas Carol where Scrooge tells the spirit of Christmas present to hide the dirty starving street urchins. God help me, I've done similar things. "My own flesh". Or in the parable of the prodigal, "this brother of yours (mine)". Damn. Sometimes I hate the kind of upper middle class Christianity I tend to embrace. What is the solution? Is 58 gives us a good starting place. There are other places as well. Keep up your postings Mike. I need the reality checks. Mort Chien PS If it matters, I've been through those lovely "exorcisims" (twice) - no real help. Prosac did some good for depression. Been off it for a number of years now. Believe it or not, getting involved with Reformed Christianity has been a good help. And, yes, I've been a very serious student of the Scriptures. But I still have bad days, weeks, even months. Your posts drew me to Is 58. The full chapter should be read, and though the subject is what qualifies as a true fast, the passage can, without loss, be generalized to include our dealings with one another. The complaint of God is in vs. 1-5, the corrective is vs. 6-8 of which I have included the following from The New American Standard Bible, 1995 Update, (La Habra, California: The Lockman Foundation) 1996. The blessing promised to those who obey is in vs 9-12. Think about those when you consider the state of American Christianity.

“Is this not the fast which I choose,
To loosen the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the bands of the yoke,
And to let the oppressed go free
And break every yoke?
“Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry
And bring the homeless poor into the house;
When you see the naked, to cover him;
And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

That last phrase is a killer isn’t it? I really do not want to see the hurting, diseased, mentally unstable, etc, etc. Kind of like in the George C. Scott version of the Christmas Carol where Scrooge tells the spirit of Christmas present to hide the dirty starving street urchins. God help me, I’ve done similar things.

“My own flesh”. Or in the parable of the prodigal, “this brother of yours (mine)”.

Damn. Sometimes I hate the kind of upper middle class Christianity I tend to embrace. What is the solution? Is 58 gives us a good starting place. There are other places as well.

Keep up your postings Mike. I need the reality checks.

Mort Chien

PS If it matters, I’ve been through those lovely “exorcisims” (twice) – no real help. Prosac did some good for depression. Been off it for a number of years now. Believe it or not, getting involved with Reformed Christianity has been a good help. And, yes, I’ve been a very serious student of the Scriptures. But I still have bad days, weeks, even months.

]]> By: spamthewunderdog http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say/comment-page-1#comment-4769 spamthewunderdog Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:48:22 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/the-christian-and-mental-illness-vi-what-does-the-gospel-say#comment-4769 In reading your series, two words kept creeping into my mind as I thought about the words and experiences that you shared. One is overspiritualization. I get so frustrated with much of what could be called charasmatic in todays Christian circle because there is such an emphasis on everything being a spiritual problem. No Christian would really argue against that, but the problem lies in the definition of "spiritual". It just becomes a game of addition and subtraction (take away the booze and the sex and add Bible study and prayer), or even multiplication, be baptized in the Holy Ghost and God will "multiply" you faith. So spiritual gets defined away from any and all real experience as a human, as one who is "poor in spirit" etc... The other word is underspiritualization. In short, the Holy Spirit is quenched and becomes an impotent force at best. All this to confusingly say, I agree mostly with your synopsis of the issues regarding mental illness and the Christian life. In reading your series, two words kept creeping into my mind as I thought about the words and experiences that you shared. One is overspiritualization.

I get so frustrated with much of what could be called charasmatic in todays Christian circle because there is such an emphasis on everything being a spiritual problem. No Christian would really argue against that, but the problem lies in the definition of “spiritual”. It just becomes a game of addition and subtraction (take away the booze and the sex and add Bible study and prayer), or even multiplication, be baptized in the Holy Ghost and God will “multiply” you faith. So spiritual gets defined away from any and all real experience as a human, as one who is “poor in spirit” etc…

The other word is underspiritualization. In short, the Holy Spirit is quenched and becomes an impotent force at best.

All this to confusingly say, I agree mostly with your synopsis of the issues regarding mental illness and the Christian life.

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