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	<title>Comments on: The Believability Meter?</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Kimo</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-428988</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-428988</guid>
		<description>A response to dumb ox: Christianity can&#039;t place all it&#039;s hope in teaching Christians to have joy, hope, forgiveness or service.  We are the most taught generation of Christians there probably ever were and where has that gotten us?  If teaching could do it, America would be the most mature and fruitful body of Christ in the world.  The solution is not teaching....... it is a return to fellowhip, love and most of all intimacy with God and each other as the goal of our faith........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A response to dumb ox: Christianity can&#8217;t place all it&#8217;s hope in teaching Christians to have joy, hope, forgiveness or service.  We are the most taught generation of Christians there probably ever were and where has that gotten us?  If teaching could do it, America would be the most mature and fruitful body of Christ in the world.  The solution is not teaching&#8230;&#8230;. it is a return to fellowhip, love and most of all intimacy with God and each other as the goal of our faith&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: paledude</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-398484</link>
		<dc:creator>paledude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-398484</guid>
		<description>Let the tares and the wheat grow together and then at the end it will all be sorted out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the tares and the wheat grow together and then at the end it will all be sorted out.</p>
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		<title>By: S. Doolittle</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-390817</link>
		<dc:creator>S. Doolittle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-390817</guid>
		<description>As a lifelong Houston resident, I find the cultural phenomenon that is Joe Osteen fascinating.  I also believe that his father, the late Rev. John Osteen, is rolling in his grave at what Joel has done to his church.

Lakewood Church was a large church in an unfashionable area of town. They did good works.  John Osteen had a TV ministry, and never asked for money on TV.  He also never asked for it in his Sunday services. He stayed out of politics, and his church was well-regarded, even by the non-evangelical community.

Joel is a seminary dropout, unlike so many evangelical preachers who never spent a day in a seminary.  I am always suspicious of any preacher with no formal theological training of any kind.  

After John died and Joel took over the ministry, there was a horrible flood in Houston, and the side of town where Lakewood Church was located was hit very hard.  Many people rescued from rooftops ended up in the church parking lot, looking for food and shelter until more permanent arrangements could be made.  The church complained loudly to the news media about what a burden this was to them, on a weekend no less.  That was when I knew the Lakewood Church of the John Osteen years was gone.

Prosperity Gospel means Joel and Victoria have moved to the Tanglewood area of Houston, near George HW and Barbara Bush. It&#039;s probably the highest priced real estate outside of River Oaks, where generations of oil barons and old money folk live.  The church is now located in a former basketball arena, where the Houston Rockets won NBA championships.  It&#039;s close to a ritzy section of town.  Joel and Victoria can be seen any day of the week, together and separately, lunching and dining at the many &quot;see and be seen&quot; restaurants in Houston, usually with some starry-eyed person footing the bill.  She has a personal shopper at Neiman&#039;s, Saks and Tootsies, which is even more expensive than Barney&#039;s New York.  And yes, she cussed out a flight attendant--my sister was on that plane.

The people who follow these folks are sucked in by their beauty (although he&#039;s actually a very short guy with very greasy hair) and their charm, not their spiritual message.  These people are looking for a life, and have unfortunately found it in false idols.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a lifelong Houston resident, I find the cultural phenomenon that is Joe Osteen fascinating.  I also believe that his father, the late Rev. John Osteen, is rolling in his grave at what Joel has done to his church.</p>
<p>Lakewood Church was a large church in an unfashionable area of town. They did good works.  John Osteen had a TV ministry, and never asked for money on TV.  He also never asked for it in his Sunday services. He stayed out of politics, and his church was well-regarded, even by the non-evangelical community.</p>
<p>Joel is a seminary dropout, unlike so many evangelical preachers who never spent a day in a seminary.  I am always suspicious of any preacher with no formal theological training of any kind.  </p>
<p>After John died and Joel took over the ministry, there was a horrible flood in Houston, and the side of town where Lakewood Church was located was hit very hard.  Many people rescued from rooftops ended up in the church parking lot, looking for food and shelter until more permanent arrangements could be made.  The church complained loudly to the news media about what a burden this was to them, on a weekend no less.  That was when I knew the Lakewood Church of the John Osteen years was gone.</p>
<p>Prosperity Gospel means Joel and Victoria have moved to the Tanglewood area of Houston, near George HW and Barbara Bush. It&#8217;s probably the highest priced real estate outside of River Oaks, where generations of oil barons and old money folk live.  The church is now located in a former basketball arena, where the Houston Rockets won NBA championships.  It&#8217;s close to a ritzy section of town.  Joel and Victoria can be seen any day of the week, together and separately, lunching and dining at the many &#8220;see and be seen&#8221; restaurants in Houston, usually with some starry-eyed person footing the bill.  She has a personal shopper at Neiman&#8217;s, Saks and Tootsies, which is even more expensive than Barney&#8217;s New York.  And yes, she cussed out a flight attendant&#8211;my sister was on that plane.</p>
<p>The people who follow these folks are sucked in by their beauty (although he&#8217;s actually a very short guy with very greasy hair) and their charm, not their spiritual message.  These people are looking for a life, and have unfortunately found it in false idols.</p>
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		<title>By: internetmonk.com Â» Blog Archive Â» The Believability Meter? Video</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-322082</link>
		<dc:creator>internetmonk.com Â» Blog Archive Â» The Believability Meter? Video</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-322082</guid>
		<description>[...] first collected   Added 20 Nov 08 from www.internetmonk.com   Flag as inappropriate or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] first collected   Added 20 Nov 08 from <a href="http://www.internetmonk.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.internetmonk.com</a>   Flag as inappropriate or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-321898</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-321898</guid>
		<description>I keep hearing &quot;stuff&quot; but I can&#039;t find it in Scripture. If it (Scripture) IS &quot;The Living Word&quot; and &quot;The Word is God&quot; wouldn&#039;t you want to use it from time to time in a Sunday Stadium Get Together?

Joel seems to be a wonderfully kind man. But, hey, the guy who delivered bud to my dorm room back in the 70&#039;s was pretty nice too. And he ALWAYS had what I &quot;needed.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep hearing &#8220;stuff&#8221; but I can&#8217;t find it in Scripture. If it (Scripture) IS &#8220;The Living Word&#8221; and &#8220;The Word is God&#8221; wouldn&#8217;t you want to use it from time to time in a Sunday Stadium Get Together?</p>
<p>Joel seems to be a wonderfully kind man. But, hey, the guy who delivered bud to my dorm room back in the 70&#8242;s was pretty nice too. And he ALWAYS had what I &#8220;needed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-320948</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-320948</guid>
		<description>Dumb ox aint so dumb!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dumb ox aint so dumb!</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-314279</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-314279</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Oh come on BOB (!!) Itâ€™s SCIENCE!!&lt;/i&gt; -- IMonk

IMonk, that&#039;s just too good an opening to pass up:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It&#039;s SCIENCE!!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Oh come on BOB (!!) Itâ€™s SCIENCE!!</i> &#8212; IMonk</p>
<p>IMonk, that&#8217;s just too good an opening to pass up:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s SCIENCE!!</a></p>
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		<title>By: katie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-314061</link>
		<dc:creator>katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-314061</guid>
		<description>My favorite spike into the red is when, at 1:38-1:41, he says &quot;I&#039;m not leading them to  some false God&quot;. Made me think for a second that he knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite spike into the red is when, at 1:38-1:41, he says &#8220;I&#8217;m not leading them to  some false God&#8221;. Made me think for a second that he knows.</p>
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		<title>By: gammell</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-314058</link>
		<dc:creator>gammell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-314058</guid>
		<description>Brilliant! But you should have saved it for sweeps week.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant! But you should have saved it for sweeps week.  <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: j. Michael Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter/comment-page-1#comment-314057</link>
		<dc:creator>j. Michael Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-believability-meter#comment-314057</guid>
		<description>No, I would never meddle in my momâ€™s new-found happiness.  Others though, if they were a lot younger, I would give them warning about the post-false prophet let down (using more gentle terms).  Iâ€™ve seen many discourage, disillusioned people who have followed one false gospel or another.  So a warning to those who have time would suffice . . . but dear mom wonâ€™t have the time to be post-anything.  I think she can ride the Osteen wagon to the barn.

I know that God too can work in any circumstances.  I myself started my â€œspiritual journeyâ€ with a copy of Power of Positive Thinking under my arm at age 15. Thereâ€™s been a lot of water under the old bridge since, but God has used crazier things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I would never meddle in my momâ€™s new-found happiness.  Others though, if they were a lot younger, I would give them warning about the post-false prophet let down (using more gentle terms).  Iâ€™ve seen many discourage, disillusioned people who have followed one false gospel or another.  So a warning to those who have time would suffice . . . but dear mom wonâ€™t have the time to be post-anything.  I think she can ride the Osteen wagon to the barn.</p>
<p>I know that God too can work in any circumstances.  I myself started my â€œspiritual journeyâ€ with a copy of Power of Positive Thinking under my arm at age 15. Thereâ€™s been a lot of water under the old bridge since, but God has used crazier things.</p>
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