Comments on: The Baptist Way: The Dire Situation of the Southern Baptist Convention as I See It http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Gary Foster http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-392441 Gary Foster Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:43:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-392441 My other name could be X Pastor. All of what your saying was just as true in the 70's and 80's. I was a SBC pastor in the 70's for a couple years at two differant churches. Enough of that nonsense I thought and left for Seminary and became UPUSA and went liberal/Neo Orthodox. Just as awful really. After Seminary I divorced my wife and left the faith for many years. Have been crawling back slowly, bit by bit for a few years now. I think the SBC deserves to fail. I think the UPUSA deserves to fail. For me, it has to come down to your own inner, personal, simple relationship with The Father. I am glad to find a thoughtful place like this to find "rest". BTW, there are lots of "me" out there. Lots. Hundreds and thousands of us walked away over many years. My other name could be X Pastor. All of what your saying was just as true in the 70′s and 80′s. I was a SBC pastor in the 70′s for a couple years at two differant churches. Enough of that nonsense I thought and left for Seminary and became UPUSA and went liberal/Neo Orthodox. Just as awful really. After Seminary I divorced my wife and left the faith for many years. Have been crawling back slowly, bit by bit for a few years now. I think the SBC deserves to fail. I think the UPUSA deserves to fail. For me, it has to come down to your own inner, personal, simple relationship with The Father. I am glad to find a thoughtful place like this to find “rest”.
BTW, there are lots of “me” out there. Lots. Hundreds and thousands of us walked away over many years.

]]> By: Adam Strahan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-130581 Adam Strahan Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:07:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-130581 Quite frankly, I'm glad that I found your article. I was just surfing the web when I came across it. I'm seventeen years old and I recently surrendered to the ministry and preached my first sermon. It sickens me to think of what our church, the SBC, has become. Churches have become focused on social activities and impressing others that they forget what they're there for in the first place. In my sermon I pooled Ephesians 1 and 2, and Romans 7. I'm no seminarian, but I do that Christ has called me into service. It's simply come to a point where it has too stop, because Christianity, not just the Baptist faith, has become a joke. It suprised me the other day when I was reading Scripture at our church, which only has about 120 members, when my mother told me that I didn't need to read such long readings, because people get unsettled when they have to sit through someone reading the Bible long periods of time...WHAT?!?!? It's pitiful that my own mother, who is a die hard fundamentalist told me that, but in all reality she spoke the truth. I ONLY READ A CHAPTER!!! Have churches become so uncommitted to God's Word that they get unruly after only hearing a chapter of the Bible? I'm fed up with it, but maybe people that are not wanting this to happen to our churches, like you and I, will make a difference and will make people put the focus bake on God...WE NEED THE SPIRIT!!! Quite frankly, I’m glad that I found your article. I was just surfing the web when I came across it. I’m seventeen years old and I recently surrendered to the ministry and preached my first sermon. It sickens me to think of what our church, the SBC, has become. Churches have become focused on social activities and impressing others that they forget what they’re there for in the first place. In my sermon I pooled Ephesians 1 and 2, and Romans 7. I’m no seminarian, but I do that Christ has called me into service. It’s simply come to a point where it has too stop, because Christianity, not just the Baptist faith, has become a joke. It suprised me the other day when I was reading Scripture at our church, which only has about 120 members, when my mother told me that I didn’t need to read such long readings, because people get unsettled when they have to sit through someone reading the Bible long periods of time…WHAT?!?!? It’s pitiful that my own mother, who is a die hard fundamentalist told me that, but in all reality she spoke the truth. I ONLY READ A CHAPTER!!! Have churches become so uncommitted to God’s Word that they get unruly after only hearing a chapter of the Bible? I’m fed up with it, but maybe people that are not wanting this to happen to our churches, like you and I, will make a difference and will make people put the focus bake on God…WE NEED THE SPIRIT!!!

]]> By: revolutionfl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-118904 revolutionfl Sat, 28 Jul 2007 18:31:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-118904 as a "young, creavtive contributor" who "went out the door", i can really relate to these sentiments. <a HREF="http://revolutionfl.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">REVOLUTION</A> as a “young, creavtive contributor” who “went out the door”, i can really relate to these sentiments.

REVOLUTION

]]> By: Mark Byron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-98131 Mark Byron Wed, 13 Jun 2007 05:22:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-98131 How would you differentiate between Baptist and "generic evangelical?" I find little in the Baptist Faith and Message statement that evangelicals would have trouble with. In fact, Baptists seem the closest to "generic evangelical" than any denomination with the possible exception of Evangelical Free. Other than an emphasis on good exegetical preaching and an near-mandatory salvation altar call at the end of any service, even if the sermon wasn't evangelistic in nature, what else differentiates Baptists from generic evangelicals? Outside of potlucks, that it :-). How would you differentiate between Baptist and “generic evangelical?”

I find little in the Baptist Faith and Message statement that evangelicals would have trouble with. In fact, Baptists seem the closest to “generic evangelical” than any denomination with the possible exception of Evangelical Free.

Other than an emphasis on good exegetical preaching and an near-mandatory salvation altar call at the end of any service, even if the sermon wasn’t evangelistic in nature, what else differentiates Baptists from generic evangelicals? Outside of potlucks, that it :-) .

]]> By: Bob Sacamento http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97727 Bob Sacamento Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:26:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97727 Michael, As a fellow SBCer, let me say the current condition of the convention rends my heart as well. It rally is sad what politics and narrow mindedness and the refusal of a few well-placed individuals to stop majoring in the minors have done to it. Will disagree with you on a couple of things, though. One, I think that most of the convention is so far gone that for it to reach the level of generic evangelicalism would be a step up. (I hope that wasn't mean.) Second, sorry but, <i>Calvinism</i> aside, I think the SBC Calvinists have brought alot of their grief on themselves. In the state where I live, the number of true 5-pointers in the SBC is in the low double digits, and every one of these guys is in the process of splitting his church. (I have this on the authority of a trustworthy friend of mine who worked in the state association for many years.) Then look at the political shenanigans that have gone on at Southern Seminary since the SBC "resurgence", and there's no wonder these guys have made enemies. You've probably guessed that I'm no Calvinist. But Calvinism per se isn't the issue. Even if Calvinism is correct, I will say the same thing to alot of these folks that I wish I could have said to the fundamentalists when they were "resurging": Having the right theological opinions on all the right topics is no excuse for atrocious behavior. Michael,

As a fellow SBCer, let me say the current condition of the convention rends my heart as well. It rally is sad what politics and narrow mindedness and the refusal of a few well-placed individuals to stop majoring in the minors have done to it.

Will disagree with you on a couple of things, though. One, I think that most of the convention is so far gone that for it to reach the level of generic evangelicalism would be a step up. (I hope that wasn’t mean.)

Second, sorry but, Calvinism aside, I think the SBC Calvinists have brought alot of their grief on themselves. In the state where I live, the number of true 5-pointers in the SBC is in the low double digits, and every one of these guys is in the process of splitting his church. (I have this on the authority of a trustworthy friend of mine who worked in the state association for many years.) Then look at the political shenanigans that have gone on at Southern Seminary since the SBC “resurgence”, and there’s no wonder these guys have made enemies.

You’ve probably guessed that I’m no Calvinist. But Calvinism per se isn’t the issue. Even if Calvinism is correct, I will say the same thing to alot of these folks that I wish I could have said to the fundamentalists when they were “resurging”: Having the right theological opinions on all the right topics is no excuse for atrocious behavior.

]]> By: chad http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97357 chad Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:25:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97357 I think that many of these questions will be answered by a a younger generation that is trying to get a handle on what it means to be baptist. Because of the SBC's unique approach to doctrine (that there has never been a convention wide statement made regarding Calvinism, Eschatology, role of tradition etc..etc..) besides the baptist faith and message, the grey area is an attractive place to be. There is also a large gap between very traditional churches and the "mega-church" style of ecclesiology in the SBC. I left the SBC for years and have now come back to it. For me the autonomy factor was what brought me back. I keep up with the usual national level chicken fights, but for the most part really don't see how it has that much of a bearing on the local church. The re-interpretation that is being done right now will decide if the convention can continue to be relevant in the 21st century or just die out and maintain itself in a slow downward cycle. I think that many of these questions will be answered by a a younger generation that is trying to get a handle on what it means to be baptist. Because of the SBC’s unique approach to doctrine (that there has never been a convention wide statement made regarding Calvinism, Eschatology, role of tradition etc..etc..) besides the baptist faith and message, the grey area is an attractive place to be. There is also a large gap between very traditional churches and the “mega-church” style of ecclesiology in the SBC.

I left the SBC for years and have now come back to it. For me the autonomy factor was what brought me back. I keep up with the usual national level chicken fights, but for the most part really don’t see how it has that much of a bearing on the local church.

The re-interpretation that is being done right now will decide if the convention can continue to be relevant in the 21st century or just die out and maintain itself in a slow downward cycle.

]]> By: Randy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97280 Randy Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:03:45 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97280 I say Amen! I pastor a small struggling SBC church in a dying town in rural Louisiana. All the SBC churches with the exception of a handfull are struggling or dying in my area while the United Pentecostal Mega Church draws large numbers of people. That Modalist Pentecostals can take away members away from our SBC churches says much about SBC evangelism and discipleship. Interesting also is that witnin 2 hours drive from here there are Eastern Orthodox churches in South La. and Mississipi that are exploding in growth in former SBC areas with former Southern Baptists. The leadership in both State and National Convention is run by pastors of large churches or guys that seem to have never left the Seminary campus. They seem to not have a clue what it is like to pastor small churches with limited resources. We are in trouble. God help us. I say Amen! I pastor a small struggling SBC church in a dying town in rural Louisiana. All the SBC churches with the exception of a handfull are struggling or dying in my area while the United Pentecostal Mega Church draws large numbers of people. That Modalist Pentecostals can take away members away from our SBC churches says much about SBC evangelism and discipleship. Interesting also is that witnin 2 hours drive from here there are Eastern Orthodox churches in South La. and Mississipi that are exploding in growth in former SBC areas with former Southern Baptists.

The leadership in both State and National Convention is run by pastors of large churches or guys that seem to have never left the Seminary campus. They seem to not have a clue what it is like to pastor small churches with limited resources. We are in trouble. God help us.

]]> By: John http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97189 John Sat, 09 Jun 2007 04:36:42 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97189 As the Pastor of a small-town Baptist church, I have an almost non-existant budget (I drive a school bus to help make ends meet), a broken down parsonage with 3 of the 5 rooms blocked off because they are unlivable and a church van that veers hard to the right when the brakes are applied. No conferences, no luxury and very few perks. Any extra money that I do ever get usually goes to the people from town who knock on my door asking for help. I am nobody special from the middle of nowhere, and I am right where I am called to be by my God. We don't need anymore Christian celebs. We need Godly men who live by the Bible and not a strategy guide written by a megachurch Pastor. As the Pastor of a small-town Baptist church, I have an almost non-existant budget (I drive a school bus to help make ends meet), a broken down parsonage with 3 of the 5 rooms blocked off because they are unlivable and a church van that veers hard to the right when the brakes are applied.
No conferences, no luxury and very few perks. Any extra money that I do ever get usually goes to the people from town who knock on my door asking for help.
I am nobody special from the middle of nowhere, and I am right where I am called to be by my God.
We don’t need anymore Christian celebs.
We need Godly men who live by the Bible and not a strategy guide written by a megachurch Pastor.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97119 Andrew Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:20:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97119 AMEN! I pray daily (well, almost!) for the SBC to find itself some unity without requiring unanimity! As a young leader who doesn't want to leave, I hope this will all be sorted out soon.... AMEN! I pray daily (well, almost!) for the SBC to find itself some unity without requiring unanimity! As a young leader who doesn’t want to leave, I hope this will all be sorted out soon….

]]> By: Duane Toole http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it/comment-page-1#comment-97113 Duane Toole Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:30:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-the-dire-situation-of-the-southern-baptist-convention-as-i-see-it#comment-97113 Lack of pluralism is a natural result of a narrowing of belief through the use of a creed (in the SBC's case, the Baptist Faith and Message, as re-created by the leadership since 1989). I was musing about the SBC just a few months ago. Though in my heart I will always be a Baptist, I no longer am a member of a Baptist church. I have joined the Methodists. My observation of the current leadership of the SBC is that they are fundamentalists. Though they deny the very term itself, I thought about what separates them from classical fundamentalism and discovered...nothing. My musings about that can be found here: http://onlymusing.blogspot.com/2007/01/first-musings.html Lack of pluralism is a natural result of a narrowing of belief through the use of a creed (in the SBC’s case, the Baptist Faith and Message, as re-created by the leadership since 1989).

I was musing about the SBC just a few months ago. Though in my heart I will always be a Baptist, I no longer am a member of a Baptist church. I have joined the Methodists.

My observation of the current leadership of the SBC is that they are fundamentalists. Though they deny the very term itself, I thought about what separates them from classical fundamentalism and discovered…nothing.

My musings about that can be found here: http://onlymusing.blogspot.com/2007/01/first-musings.html

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