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	<title>Comments on: The Baptist Way: Confessional Resources for Renewing the Lord&#8217;s Supper (2)</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Reader Request: Problems With Baptists and the Lord&#8217;s Supper &#124; internetmonk.com</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-497754</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader Request: Problems With Baptists and the Lord&#8217;s Supper &#124; internetmonk.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Other IM posts on this topic: Baptist Reasons For Not Celebrating the LS, Resources, Discerning the Presence of Christ, Intro to the Baptist Way. LOTS of links to Baptist material on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Other IM posts on this topic: Baptist Reasons For Not Celebrating the LS, Resources, Discerning the Presence of Christ, Intro to the Baptist Way. LOTS of links to Baptist material on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: austin</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-344623</link>
		<dc:creator>austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael,

I think one thing that is really hurting our efforts in this regard, and one I was totally unaware of having never been in anything but a baptist or country methodist church until adulthood is our architecture is all wrong.  The anglican architeture is much more appropriate with the table in center and the pulpit to the side. I even like the scripture read in the middle of the people.  I would simply replace the baptismal font at the door with a baptismal pool.  

Everyone should read a hard to find book &quot;Baptist at the table&quot;  I can&#039;t remember the author right now, but it is truly an eye opener and has helped me to reclaim a high view of the table. 

Austin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>I think one thing that is really hurting our efforts in this regard, and one I was totally unaware of having never been in anything but a baptist or country methodist church until adulthood is our architecture is all wrong.  The anglican architeture is much more appropriate with the table in center and the pulpit to the side. I even like the scripture read in the middle of the people.  I would simply replace the baptismal font at the door with a baptismal pool.  </p>
<p>Everyone should read a hard to find book &#8220;Baptist at the table&#8221;  I can&#8217;t remember the author right now, but it is truly an eye opener and has helped me to reclaim a high view of the table. </p>
<p>Austin</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Young</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-178228</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 08:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-178228</guid>
		<description>I suppose that during my entire ministry I have felt that to be Biblical as a Baptist was far more important than to be a traditional Baptist.  To be traditionally Baptist is just as bad as to follow tradition more than Scripture as some of our brethren in other denomina-
tions.  I just don&#039;t understand who changed our Baptist tradition of weekly Communion to quarterly Communion.

So over all my years as a Southern Baptist, now 35 years as a pastor, I have never observed the Lord&#039;s Supper less frequently than once a month. As you have done, I have studied both the Scriptures and earlier
Baptist and Southern Baptist history, and have been stunned to see the damage we have done to people&#039;s understanding of this great ordinance of the church.

The first meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention included a Communion Service.  And, as you mention,
Spurgeon long ago in England was observing the Supper
weekly on the Lord&#039;s Day.

There is no better way to preach the Gospel than the Biblical way of preaching it, baptizing new believers, and observing the Supper.  I personally find it a blessing to alternate morning and evening Communion Services with weekly Communion.

I appreciate you and others for raising the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose that during my entire ministry I have felt that to be Biblical as a Baptist was far more important than to be a traditional Baptist.  To be traditionally Baptist is just as bad as to follow tradition more than Scripture as some of our brethren in other denomina-<br />
tions.  I just don&#8217;t understand who changed our Baptist tradition of weekly Communion to quarterly Communion.</p>
<p>So over all my years as a Southern Baptist, now 35 years as a pastor, I have never observed the Lord&#8217;s Supper less frequently than once a month. As you have done, I have studied both the Scriptures and earlier<br />
Baptist and Southern Baptist history, and have been stunned to see the damage we have done to people&#8217;s understanding of this great ordinance of the church.</p>
<p>The first meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention included a Communion Service.  And, as you mention,<br />
Spurgeon long ago in England was observing the Supper<br />
weekly on the Lord&#8217;s Day.</p>
<p>There is no better way to preach the Gospel than the Biblical way of preaching it, baptizing new believers, and observing the Supper.  I personally find it a blessing to alternate morning and evening Communion Services with weekly Communion.</p>
<p>I appreciate you and others for raising the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: chad</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-106401</link>
		<dc:creator>chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 09:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-106401</guid>
		<description>I will disagree with josh and say that I really think it is the influence of ecumenicism and the RCC that are leading more baptists to a healthier view of communion and liturgical tradition.  I guess this is assuming more participation in a post-evangelical context than is necessary but I will go ahead and do it.

I was in a Catholic wedding about a month ago and had a real hard time sitting through the Eucharist.  It wasn&#039;t because I was mad that I couldn&#039;t take it, but that I pretty much agree with transubstantiation (and as a Baptist no less).  I know that it seems confusing, but I really boil it down to the simple faith I had as a kid.  I was a good little baptist that heard 4 times a year, &quot;The is the body and blood of Christ&quot;.  And I just believed it, thinking there was some way to cool supranatural thing going on.  It wasn&#039;t until I was in my early twenties that I really ever thought otherwise about it. I think that the view of the Lords Supper (I call it this because it is the lowest term, I refuse to use the word Eucharist within baptist communion settings) in the current BFM is horrible and I think that these recommendations you have put forth are great.  To think that the Holy Spirit is incapable of doing something involved in the elements is just putting God in a box and showing traditional evangelicism&#039;s fear of anything remotely Catholic.

Thanks Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will disagree with josh and say that I really think it is the influence of ecumenicism and the RCC that are leading more baptists to a healthier view of communion and liturgical tradition.  I guess this is assuming more participation in a post-evangelical context than is necessary but I will go ahead and do it.</p>
<p>I was in a Catholic wedding about a month ago and had a real hard time sitting through the Eucharist.  It wasn&#8217;t because I was mad that I couldn&#8217;t take it, but that I pretty much agree with transubstantiation (and as a Baptist no less).  I know that it seems confusing, but I really boil it down to the simple faith I had as a kid.  I was a good little baptist that heard 4 times a year, &#8220;The is the body and blood of Christ&#8221;.  And I just believed it, thinking there was some way to cool supranatural thing going on.  It wasn&#8217;t until I was in my early twenties that I really ever thought otherwise about it. I think that the view of the Lords Supper (I call it this because it is the lowest term, I refuse to use the word Eucharist within baptist communion settings) in the current BFM is horrible and I think that these recommendations you have put forth are great.  To think that the Holy Spirit is incapable of doing something involved in the elements is just putting God in a box and showing traditional evangelicism&#8217;s fear of anything remotely Catholic.</p>
<p>Thanks Mike.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-105035</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-105035</guid>
		<description>Regarding church affiliation, structure and leadership within the New Testament church, there is no indicated Biblical concept of official versus non official associate status within any church/ekklesia in the New Testament.  The initial church was conceived as a Spiritual family and functioned under tribal patriarchal concepts (age versus youth) (sixth commandment “Honor thy father and mother”).  All true believers were considered part of this family/church/ekklesia, and all functioned with equal status as gifted by the Holy Spirit within patriarchal protocol, whether assembled or not assembled, whether itinerant or local.  Their function and authority existed in Whom they believed (Jesus Christ), the Words they spoke and in the authority they exercised according to the gifts delegated to them by the Holy Spirit, and not according to human appointed jurisdiction.  True, people were delegated, recognized and affirmed by the church and apostles to serve where there was neglect in service, and the seniors/elders/elderly were recognized to superintend (episkope) and shepherd (poimen), but not to rule in the English sense of the term, nor to give them official, exclusive, final right, control, authority and status in that jurisdiction.  No one was given nor recognized as having exclusive right to baptize nor administer the Lord’s supper.  The implication of what Jesus told the eleven;
Mat 28:19-20,
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
is that the converts both as individuals and as a body were to practice what Jesus taught the disciples, which included baptism and communion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding church affiliation, structure and leadership within the New Testament church, there is no indicated Biblical concept of official versus non official associate status within any church/ekklesia in the New Testament.  The initial church was conceived as a Spiritual family and functioned under tribal patriarchal concepts (age versus youth) (sixth commandment “Honor thy father and mother”).  All true believers were considered part of this family/church/ekklesia, and all functioned with equal status as gifted by the Holy Spirit within patriarchal protocol, whether assembled or not assembled, whether itinerant or local.  Their function and authority existed in Whom they believed (Jesus Christ), the Words they spoke and in the authority they exercised according to the gifts delegated to them by the Holy Spirit, and not according to human appointed jurisdiction.  True, people were delegated, recognized and affirmed by the church and apostles to serve where there was neglect in service, and the seniors/elders/elderly were recognized to superintend (episkope) and shepherd (poimen), but not to rule in the English sense of the term, nor to give them official, exclusive, final right, control, authority and status in that jurisdiction.  No one was given nor recognized as having exclusive right to baptize nor administer the Lord’s supper.  The implication of what Jesus told the eleven;<br />
<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Mat+28%3A19-20" class="bibleref" title="ESV Mat 28:19-20">Mat 28:19-20</a>,<br />
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.<br />
is that the converts both as individuals and as a body were to practice what Jesus taught the disciples, which included baptism and communion.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-104707</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-104707</guid>
		<description>Much has been said about being open to the various traditions on Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, but little on what these traditions were and are to be based.  My Faith tradition is Evangelical Anabaptist.  My traditional denomination firmly advocated the three “Solas”, yet it was a bit soft on eternal security.   It practiced a believer’s baptism by immersion, unless for physical reasons this was not possible.  It would however accept believers who had been baptized by pouring or sprinkling on the confession of faith from other denominations.   

The Bible commands all to be baptized.  Yet, if immersion is to be the exclusive method, what about those on life support?  Since most Baptists/Anabaptists demand that those who partake of the Lord’s Table be baptized, those who cannot be baptized by immersion are eternally disenfranchised from full fellowship within the church.  Though I believe that immersion was the majority view and practice in the early church, I am not convinced that it was the exclusive method.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much has been said about being open to the various traditions on Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, but little on what these traditions were and are to be based.  My Faith tradition is Evangelical Anabaptist.  My traditional denomination firmly advocated the three “Solas”, yet it was a bit soft on eternal security.   It practiced a believer’s baptism by immersion, unless for physical reasons this was not possible.  It would however accept believers who had been baptized by pouring or sprinkling on the confession of faith from other denominations.   </p>
<p>The Bible commands all to be baptized.  Yet, if immersion is to be the exclusive method, what about those on life support?  Since most Baptists/Anabaptists demand that those who partake of the Lord’s Table be baptized, those who cannot be baptized by immersion are eternally disenfranchised from full fellowship within the church.  Though I believe that immersion was the majority view and practice in the early church, I am not convinced that it was the exclusive method.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-104384</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-104384</guid>
		<description>Have found this hugely helpful - I am an Anglican Mission priest in the North of England ( strong Methodist and Baptist territory historically) and currently on sabbatical, and among other things working on contemporary, missional understandings of The Eucharist. I have earlier in the week posted a request for Free Church web material on thinking about the Eucharist- see my site and any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks for your insights which is so much more than my practical experience of Baptist theology through Baptist ministers and churches - I look forward to reading more.

Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have found this hugely helpful &#8211; I am an Anglican Mission priest in the North of England ( strong Methodist and Baptist territory historically) and currently on sabbatical, and among other things working on contemporary, missional understandings of The Eucharist. I have earlier in the week posted a request for Free Church web material on thinking about the Eucharist- see my site and any other suggestions welcome.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insights which is so much more than my practical experience of Baptist theology through Baptist ministers and churches &#8211; I look forward to reading more.</p>
<p>Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-104298</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-104298</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Just wanted to echo what some others have said and say thanks for broaching this topic. I go to a Baptisty community church and we have only recently started doing the Lord&#039;s Supper twice a month. Before that it was whenever the pastor felt like it. But I think that we don&#039;t know &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; we do it. In all honesty, I think it&#039;s because some people wanted to do it more often and the pastor acquiesced.

But our language is the bare language of symbol and remembrance. For something that should be pointing to Jesus and uniting his followers in Him, the introspection we are encouraged to do seems like a bare minimum. 

Don&#039;t get me wrong, anything that points to Christ in our gathered worship is a good thing. I just wish we had a fuller expression of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Just wanted to echo what some others have said and say thanks for broaching this topic. I go to a Baptisty community church and we have only recently started doing the Lord&#8217;s Supper twice a month. Before that it was whenever the pastor felt like it. But I think that we don&#8217;t know <i>why</i> we do it. In all honesty, I think it&#8217;s because some people wanted to do it more often and the pastor acquiesced.</p>
<p>But our language is the bare language of symbol and remembrance. For something that should be pointing to Jesus and uniting his followers in Him, the introspection we are encouraged to do seems like a bare minimum. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, anything that points to Christ in our gathered worship is a good thing. I just wish we had a fuller expression of it.</p>
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		<title>By: o.h.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-104236</link>
		<dc:creator>o.h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael,

Hope I&#039;m not breaking the rules as I don&#039;t meet the qualifications for comment... but I wanted to say how grateful I am, as a Catholic, for this series of posts.  Despite growing up surrounded by Baptists, I&#039;ve lived in complete ignorance of Baptist theology, except that which I&#039;ve heard set forth (from both Baptists and Catholics) in purely apologetical terms, which had left me with a sense that Baptist beliefs were theology by negation. I feel like I&#039;m grasping something of the richness of Baptist thinking and tradition now. Thanks for letting us non-Baptists see the tradition &quot;from the inside,&quot; presented as a whole and not merely in contrast to other theologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Hope I&#8217;m not breaking the rules as I don&#8217;t meet the qualifications for comment&#8230; but I wanted to say how grateful I am, as a Catholic, for this series of posts.  Despite growing up surrounded by Baptists, I&#8217;ve lived in complete ignorance of Baptist theology, except that which I&#8217;ve heard set forth (from both Baptists and Catholics) in purely apologetical terms, which had left me with a sense that Baptist beliefs were theology by negation. I feel like I&#8217;m grasping something of the richness of Baptist thinking and tradition now. Thanks for letting us non-Baptists see the tradition &#8220;from the inside,&#8221; presented as a whole and not merely in contrast to other theologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2/comment-page-1#comment-104211</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-resources-for-renewing-the-lords-supper-2#comment-104211</guid>
		<description>John: I was half right, which is right enough for these purposes.  There&#039;s little disagreement on the rest from me, although there is disagreement within UCCF on some of this stuff.  Having spent my undergraduate years involved, at various levels, in the running of the uni CU, and having had many similar discussions, I&#039;m sure you will appreciate that I could write reams on this.  And I&#039;m sure you appreciate my restraint.  ;)  At church, of course, we see the other side of the problem, in practical (and even, at times, personal) outworkings of the fact that students mistake the CU for church, and &lt;i&gt;vice versa&lt;/i&gt;.

Yeah, so the Lord&#039;s Supper.  &lt;b&gt;Do it weekly&lt;/b&gt;: alternating between mornings and evenings is my preference.  And &lt;b&gt;get the kids in&lt;/b&gt; for it, too, regardless of whether you&#039;re a paedocommunionist.  And for goodness&#039; sake, &lt;b&gt;use real wine&lt;/b&gt;.  Then perhaps, just perhaps, we might see (for the sake of example) students who give as much commitment to church as they do to the CU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John: I was half right, which is right enough for these purposes.  There&#8217;s little disagreement on the rest from me, although there is disagreement within UCCF on some of this stuff.  Having spent my undergraduate years involved, at various levels, in the running of the uni CU, and having had many similar discussions, I&#8217;m sure you will appreciate that I could write reams on this.  And I&#8217;m sure you appreciate my restraint.  <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   At church, of course, we see the other side of the problem, in practical (and even, at times, personal) outworkings of the fact that students mistake the CU for church, and <i>vice versa</i>.</p>
<p>Yeah, so the Lord&#8217;s Supper.  <b>Do it weekly</b>: alternating between mornings and evenings is my preference.  And <b>get the kids in</b> for it, too, regardless of whether you&#8217;re a paedocommunionist.  And for goodness&#8217; sake, <b>use real wine</b>.  Then perhaps, just perhaps, we might see (for the sake of example) students who give as much commitment to church as they do to the CU.</p>
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