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	<title>Comments on: Interview with Peter Matthews, Pastor of Saint Patrick&#8217;s Anglican Church, Lexington, Kentucky</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: AngloReformedbaptist</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-479913</link>
		<dc:creator>AngloReformedbaptist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-479913</guid>
		<description>To be respectful of the conversation at hand I would like to put forth Article XVII for common reading to show whether or not the English Church was deterministic (not fatalistic) in its theology or if it was respectful to the concept of the freedom of the will to accept or reject the grace of God with their own will synergistically working with the divine will! 

Article XVII
Of Predestination and Election
Predestination to life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby, before the foundations of the world were laid, He hath constantly decreed by His counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom He hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation as vessels made to honour. Wherefore they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God&#039;s purpose by His Spirit working in due season; they through grace obey the calling; they be justified freely; they be made sons of God by adoption; they be made like the image of His only-begotten Son Jesus Christ; they walk religiously in good works; and at length by God&#039;s mercy they attain to everlasting felicity.

As the godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh and their earthly members and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: so for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God&#039;s Predestination is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlessness of most unclean living no less perilous than desperation.

Furthermore, we must receive God&#039;s promises in such wise as they be generally set forth in Holy Scripture; and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we have expressly declared unto us in the word of God.



Thus towards this present conversation not has a “I told you so response&quot; the Church of England held to the intent of the Scriptures when it comes to doctrine of the double predestination of the wicked and elect.  Such examples of such vindication are seen by the theologian of the Church of England, Augustus Toplady. It is very hard to ignore or maim the text of the 39 Articles to support the illogical and ultimately insane idea that man has free will...but this statement does not ignore the fact that salvation will show itself over time in ones life....but let that not loose the fact that justification or being declared dikiaos by God alone is the source of our salvation ultimately in union with what Christ Jesus has done for those given to Him (for it is the mercy and will of God alone that saves).  
 So may this clarify the historical reality of the true Reformation of the Church of England not in the divorce of Henry VIII, but under the great young King Edward VI.  Just because Anglo Catholicism is popular today doesn&#039;t mean Anglicanism is Anglo-Catholic, that&#039;s like saying modern evangelicalism is based on evangelical decisions cards-when the decision cards are just an error that has become insidious in the evangelical community....but it doesn&#039;t mean that the meaning of evangelicalism has changed....its just ignored..... of  preference and a rebellion heart!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be respectful of the conversation at hand I would like to put forth Article XVII for common reading to show whether or not the English Church was deterministic (not fatalistic) in its theology or if it was respectful to the concept of the freedom of the will to accept or reject the grace of God with their own will synergistically working with the divine will! </p>
<p>Article XVII<br />
Of Predestination and Election<br />
Predestination to life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby, before the foundations of the world were laid, He hath constantly decreed by His counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom He hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation as vessels made to honour. Wherefore they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God&#8217;s purpose by His Spirit working in due season; they through grace obey the calling; they be justified freely; they be made sons of God by adoption; they be made like the image of His only-begotten Son Jesus Christ; they walk religiously in good works; and at length by God&#8217;s mercy they attain to everlasting felicity.</p>
<p>As the godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh and their earthly members and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: so for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God&#8217;s Predestination is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlessness of most unclean living no less perilous than desperation.</p>
<p>Furthermore, we must receive God&#8217;s promises in such wise as they be generally set forth in Holy Scripture; and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we have expressly declared unto us in the word of God.</p>
<p>Thus towards this present conversation not has a “I told you so response&#8221; the Church of England held to the intent of the Scriptures when it comes to doctrine of the double predestination of the wicked and elect.  Such examples of such vindication are seen by the theologian of the Church of England, Augustus Toplady. It is very hard to ignore or maim the text of the 39 Articles to support the illogical and ultimately insane idea that man has free will&#8230;but this statement does not ignore the fact that salvation will show itself over time in ones life&#8230;.but let that not loose the fact that justification or being declared dikiaos by God alone is the source of our salvation ultimately in union with what Christ Jesus has done for those given to Him (for it is the mercy and will of God alone that saves).<br />
 So may this clarify the historical reality of the true Reformation of the Church of England not in the divorce of Henry VIII, but under the great young King Edward VI.  Just because Anglo Catholicism is popular today doesn&#8217;t mean Anglicanism is Anglo-Catholic, that&#8217;s like saying modern evangelicalism is based on evangelical decisions cards-when the decision cards are just an error that has become insidious in the evangelical community&#8230;.but it doesn&#8217;t mean that the meaning of evangelicalism has changed&#8230;.its just ignored&#8230;.. of  preference and a rebellion heart!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Weikal</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-122899</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Weikal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-122899</guid>
		<description>Fr. Peter was my pastor when I was a member at Grand Ave. Baptist and then, later, Cornerstone Baptist in Ames, Iowa. He knew me in all of my heathen ugliness and demonstrated grace and love. Fr. Peters is one of the main people responsible for my eventual conversion as a Christian and even though it&#039;s been years since I&#039;ve seen him, I still consider him one of my faith fathers. I am so happy to read that Jesus is blessing his mission in Kentuky. I vividly remember long conversations with him about the role of liturgical worship and our disatisfaction with the black and white theological distinctions that divide what should be one family. God bless you, Fr. Peters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fr. Peter was my pastor when I was a member at Grand Ave. Baptist and then, later, Cornerstone Baptist in Ames, Iowa. He knew me in all of my heathen ugliness and demonstrated grace and love. Fr. Peters is one of the main people responsible for my eventual conversion as a Christian and even though it&#8217;s been years since I&#8217;ve seen him, I still consider him one of my faith fathers. I am so happy to read that Jesus is blessing his mission in Kentuky. I vividly remember long conversations with him about the role of liturgical worship and our disatisfaction with the black and white theological distinctions that divide what should be one family. God bless you, Fr. Peters.</p>
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		<title>By: Peggy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-111295</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 16:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-111295</guid>
		<description>Re: comment that evangelical Anglicans are reformed and implication that other streams are not. 

Speaking as an Anglo-Catholic (used to be Baptist, was brought up Lutheran) I would object to that comment just a little. While the liberals are most certainly not reformed, many Anglo-Caths would be proud to claim reformed theology as the protestant part of our DNA. 

This of course doesnt make us as purely reformed as some of our more evangelical communion mates but there is that influence without a doubt in us as well. 

I call Anglicanism the best of all worlds. It is living proof that one can have it all in an integrated and balanced form. That is what attracted me to it initially and after 4 years, I still affirm it without reservation. 

Two other notes: Because of Anglicanism&#039;s genius for integration, it can be easily abused by cafeteria types who aren&#039;t really interested in thoughtfully integrating the various traditional insights into a living whole. Many liberals consider themselves Anglo-Catholic but in fact are AC in form only without holding any form of orthodox belief. On the other hand, there are many AC&#039;s like myself who consider ourselves very much the evangelicals at heart and in spirit. For the record, we orthodox cannot and do not consider the radical liberals among us to be true Anglicans. For us true Anglicans are discerned by a core of orthodox beliefs which we all share whole-heartedly. For this reason Anglicans of all ecclesiastical stripes have found common cause and unity in defending our tradition from those who no longer believe in it but still like to dress up on Sundays and put on an elaborate show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: comment that evangelical Anglicans are reformed and implication that other streams are not. </p>
<p>Speaking as an Anglo-Catholic (used to be Baptist, was brought up Lutheran) I would object to that comment just a little. While the liberals are most certainly not reformed, many Anglo-Caths would be proud to claim reformed theology as the protestant part of our DNA. </p>
<p>This of course doesnt make us as purely reformed as some of our more evangelical communion mates but there is that influence without a doubt in us as well. </p>
<p>I call Anglicanism the best of all worlds. It is living proof that one can have it all in an integrated and balanced form. That is what attracted me to it initially and after 4 years, I still affirm it without reservation. </p>
<p>Two other notes: Because of Anglicanism&#8217;s genius for integration, it can be easily abused by cafeteria types who aren&#8217;t really interested in thoughtfully integrating the various traditional insights into a living whole. Many liberals consider themselves Anglo-Catholic but in fact are AC in form only without holding any form of orthodox belief. On the other hand, there are many AC&#8217;s like myself who consider ourselves very much the evangelicals at heart and in spirit. For the record, we orthodox cannot and do not consider the radical liberals among us to be true Anglicans. For us true Anglicans are discerned by a core of orthodox beliefs which we all share whole-heartedly. For this reason Anglicans of all ecclesiastical stripes have found common cause and unity in defending our tradition from those who no longer believe in it but still like to dress up on Sundays and put on an elaborate show.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolf Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-111252</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolf Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-111252</guid>
		<description>Clay, please tell me more about your experience with Anglicans in Austria ... not necessarily here on the blog but by e-mail wnp@doulos.at. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clay, please tell me more about your experience with Anglicans in Austria &#8230; not necessarily here on the blog but by e-mail <a href="mailto:wnp@doulos.at">wnp@doulos.at</a>. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Abu Daoud</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-108315</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Daoud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-108315</guid>
		<description>I moved from a non-denom Bible church in Mexico to an evangelican Episcopal church in Texas to being a very Anglo-catholic missionary to Muslims in the Middle East. Go figure.

But kudos to this guy for moving into AMiA.

RE Orthodox and Catholic: We can no longer say that it is East v. West. There are plenty of Orthodox churches in the US, including Western Rite parishes. And plenty of Eastern Catholics over here, though the numbers are decreasing thanks to a) low birthrates, b) emmigration, and c) it is illegal for Muslims to leave Islam. I am thinking of Coptic Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, and Maronite, and Melkite. Those are Catholic--in communion with Rome but they have their own liturgy and language and bishops.

Blessings. Drop by islamdom.blogspot.com and let me know your questions about Islam or Eastern Christianity, or if you are called to be a missionary here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I moved from a non-denom Bible church in Mexico to an evangelican Episcopal church in Texas to being a very Anglo-catholic missionary to Muslims in the Middle East. Go figure.</p>
<p>But kudos to this guy for moving into AMiA.</p>
<p>RE Orthodox and Catholic: We can no longer say that it is East v. West. There are plenty of Orthodox churches in the US, including Western Rite parishes. And plenty of Eastern Catholics over here, though the numbers are decreasing thanks to a) low birthrates, b) emmigration, and c) it is illegal for Muslims to leave Islam. I am thinking of Coptic Catholic, Chaldean Catholic, and Maronite, and Melkite. Those are Catholic&#8211;in communion with Rome but they have their own liturgy and language and bishops.</p>
<p>Blessings. Drop by islamdom.blogspot.com and let me know your questions about Islam or Eastern Christianity, or if you are called to be a missionary here.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Lago</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-107965</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Lago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 03:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-107965</guid>
		<description>Defintely wisdom in the words of Simeon.

God bless, ya&#039;ll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Defintely wisdom in the words of Simeon.</p>
<p>God bless, ya&#8217;ll.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-107863</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-107863</guid>
		<description>Personally, part of what attracted me to Anglicanism is the &quot;via media&quot; attitude.  I grew tired of the staunch and often rigid theological stances; the Calvinism/Arminianism debate being one of them.  I like Simeon&#039;s quote, and shows that we can live with the tensions inherent in our differing theologies and readings of Scripture, and leave room for the incompleteness of our knowledge.  

Of course, I like all this as long as it is still grounded in the Creeds and a foundation of Christian orthodoxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, part of what attracted me to Anglicanism is the &#8220;via media&#8221; attitude.  I grew tired of the staunch and often rigid theological stances; the Calvinism/Arminianism debate being one of them.  I like Simeon&#8217;s quote, and shows that we can live with the tensions inherent in our differing theologies and readings of Scripture, and leave room for the incompleteness of our knowledge.  </p>
<p>Of course, I like all this as long as it is still grounded in the Creeds and a foundation of Christian orthodoxy.</p>
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		<title>By: fr. Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-107583</link>
		<dc:creator>fr. Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The famous Evangelical Anglican Charles Simeon was asked once whether he was a Calvinist or an Arminian.  His reply was, &quot;Calvinist one day and Arminian the next, as the text demands.&quot;

Neither a staunch Arminian nor a staunch Calvinist would like his approach.  But I do and my guess is that many protestant Anglicans would fit here.  


Maybe we can call them the John Stott wing. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The famous Evangelical Anglican Charles Simeon was asked once whether he was a Calvinist or an Arminian.  His reply was, &#8220;Calvinist one day and Arminian the next, as the text demands.&#8221;</p>
<p>Neither a staunch Arminian nor a staunch Calvinist would like his approach.  But I do and my guess is that many protestant Anglicans would fit here.  </p>
<p>Maybe we can call them the John Stott wing. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-107394</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-107394</guid>
		<description>Excuse me in referring to Anglicanism in the USA/Europe. You are correct on the worldwide scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me in referring to Anglicanism in the USA/Europe. You are correct on the worldwide scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Lago</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky/comment-page-1#comment-107152</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Lago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 04:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-interview-with-peter-matthews-pastor-of-saint-patricks-anglican-church-lexington-kentucky#comment-107152</guid>
		<description>Edits to my post:
Sydney diocese probably has more members than all the other diocese IN AUSTRALIA. My bad...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edits to my post:<br />
Sydney diocese probably has more members than all the other diocese IN AUSTRALIA. My bad&#8230;</p>
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