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	<title>Comments on: The Baptist Way: Discerning the Fullness of Christ in the Lord&#8217;s Supper (3)</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Reader Request: Problems With Baptists and the Lord&#8217;s Supper &#124; internetmonk.com</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3/comment-page-1#comment-497759</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader Request: Problems With Baptists and the Lord&#8217;s Supper &#124; internetmonk.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Other IM posts on this topic: Baptist Reasons For Not Celebrating the LS, Confessional Resources, Discerning the Presence of Christ, Intro to the Baptist Way. LOTS of links to Baptist material on the supper in this posts, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Other IM posts on this topic: Baptist Reasons For Not Celebrating the LS, Confessional Resources, Discerning the Presence of Christ, Intro to the Baptist Way. LOTS of links to Baptist material on the supper in this posts, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Ritchie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3/comment-page-1#comment-111354</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Ritchie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3#comment-111354</guid>
		<description>[begin quote]
One of the real problems with the literal presence view is that, when interpreted strictly, it causes Jesus to create his “body and blood” in the upper room BEFORE he goes to the cross.
[end quote]

Yes, but that kind of problem is faced by any view of the Lord&#039;s Supper.  If you take a memorial view, it means that people in the Upper Room are supposed to remember something that hasn&#039;t happened yet.

[begin quote]
In the same way, I am convinced that some theologies of the Lord’s Supper seem to teach that the “fullness” of Christ is available to some in the Eucharist, while other faithful, Christ receptive believers without that Eucharistic theology and practice have less of Christ or less access to Christ. In no other area of Christian theology and worship do I sense more flirtation with the idea “some have Christ” and “some do not.”
[end quote]

You&#039;re switching the language here.  Colossians says that in Christ all the fullness of the deity dwells BODILY.  So the body matters.  You don&#039;t expect to receive all the fullness of Christ bodily in the Supper because you think you&#039;ve already received Him.  But when you say that, I think the word &quot;bodily&quot; changes meaning.

I think the key thing that is missing here is an attempt to imagine what it would be like really to believe in the Real Presence.  You actually get to handle the &quot;ransom money.&quot;  Your argument is like saying that since the money is in your account anyway, there can be no benefit in handling it, since you have the same amount of money either way.      Well, all I can say is, I cannot identify with that.  No sense of &quot;togetherness&quot; that I ever got as an evangelical when the Lord&#039;s Supper was practiced ever came close to bringing the comfort that it has brought me since believing in the Real Presence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[begin quote]<br />
One of the real problems with the literal presence view is that, when interpreted strictly, it causes Jesus to create his “body and blood” in the upper room BEFORE he goes to the cross.<br />
[end quote]</p>
<p>Yes, but that kind of problem is faced by any view of the Lord&#8217;s Supper.  If you take a memorial view, it means that people in the Upper Room are supposed to remember something that hasn&#8217;t happened yet.</p>
<p>[begin quote]<br />
In the same way, I am convinced that some theologies of the Lord’s Supper seem to teach that the “fullness” of Christ is available to some in the Eucharist, while other faithful, Christ receptive believers without that Eucharistic theology and practice have less of Christ or less access to Christ. In no other area of Christian theology and worship do I sense more flirtation with the idea “some have Christ” and “some do not.”<br />
[end quote]</p>
<p>You&#8217;re switching the language here.  Colossians says that in Christ all the fullness of the deity dwells BODILY.  So the body matters.  You don&#8217;t expect to receive all the fullness of Christ bodily in the Supper because you think you&#8217;ve already received Him.  But when you say that, I think the word &#8220;bodily&#8221; changes meaning.</p>
<p>I think the key thing that is missing here is an attempt to imagine what it would be like really to believe in the Real Presence.  You actually get to handle the &#8220;ransom money.&#8221;  Your argument is like saying that since the money is in your account anyway, there can be no benefit in handling it, since you have the same amount of money either way.      Well, all I can say is, I cannot identify with that.  No sense of &#8220;togetherness&#8221; that I ever got as an evangelical when the Lord&#8217;s Supper was practiced ever came close to bringing the comfort that it has brought me since believing in the Real Presence.</p>
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		<title>By: amtog</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3/comment-page-1#comment-106699</link>
		<dc:creator>amtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3#comment-106699</guid>
		<description>I think you might want to check this book out:

http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=37166

I really respect the writer and appreciated this book.

...and I&#039;ve linked you to my blogroll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you might want to check this book out:</p>
<p><a href="http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=37166" rel="nofollow">http://johnmarkhicks.faithsite.com/content.asp?CID=37166</a></p>
<p>I really respect the writer and appreciated this book.</p>
<p>&#8230;and I&#8217;ve linked you to my blogroll.</p>
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		<title>By: slw</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3/comment-page-1#comment-105557</link>
		<dc:creator>slw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3#comment-105557</guid>
		<description>Notwithstanding that I disagree with you concerning charismatics, this article is awesome! Thank you. The analysis on the memorial features of Passover was particularly helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notwithstanding that I disagree with you concerning charismatics, this article is awesome! Thank you. The analysis on the memorial features of Passover was particularly helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3/comment-page-1#comment-105544</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-baptist-way-discerning-the-fullness-of-christ-in-the-lords-supper-3#comment-105544</guid>
		<description>I appreciate what you have written.

Regarding The Lord’s Table, Scripture, including 1 Cor. 11, teaches us that we must come to Christ in a broken state (judge ourselves).  Yet, frequently by what we state and practice, we imply that we must repair or at the least confess to Christ every sin before we can come.  That we cannot do apart from Christ.  We do not even know ourselves well enough to do so.  As the Broken Body of Christ unites the church, likewise, we come broken before Christ as a believing, broken (not divided) unity.   

The original church was one, as represented by the unity of all believers universal, and in the various communities.  However, the unity broke when various bodies of believers began to see themselves as separate from one another, and hence, not as part of the same communion.  While separation on the basis of false doctrine, practice and apostasy is Biblical, separation on the basis of denominational badge, culture, or even individual church affiliation is not.    

We insist that Salvation is by Grace, through Faith alone, and yet we frequently place works restrictions on believers to becoming part of the official church and to function as a believer in it.  As the human race is one, and Israel is one, likewise the Church is one.  Entry into the Church is not through works or ritual, but by faith alone.  Faith not only entitles but demands that each believer partake of all the promises and responsibilities of God in Christ, including baptism and communion, and not discrimination because of age, works, denomination, church etc..

The problem in the Church at Corinth as addressed by Paul in 1 Cor. 11 was division between those present at the communion table itself;  those who partook versus those who did not/could not.  Those who indulged and those looked and coveted to partake.  Therefore the sin of 1 Cor. 11, is not regular sin in our lives, of which we all are guilty, but the sin of disrespect of the Body and Blood of Christ, and division at the Lord’s Table itself.   It is the direct result of judging ourselves as worthy and others as unworthy, and failing to address and see the problem that we ourselves are equally totally unworthy, except in Christ.  We, as well as they can only come to God by falling on the broken Body and spilled Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, of which none of us are worthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate what you have written.</p>
<p>Regarding The Lord’s Table, Scripture, including <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+11" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 11">1 Cor. 11</a>, teaches us that we must come to Christ in a broken state (judge ourselves).  Yet, frequently by what we state and practice, we imply that we must repair or at the least confess to Christ every sin before we can come.  That we cannot do apart from Christ.  We do not even know ourselves well enough to do so.  As the Broken Body of Christ unites the church, likewise, we come broken before Christ as a believing, broken (not divided) unity.   </p>
<p>The original church was one, as represented by the unity of all believers universal, and in the various communities.  However, the unity broke when various bodies of believers began to see themselves as separate from one another, and hence, not as part of the same communion.  While separation on the basis of false doctrine, practice and apostasy is Biblical, separation on the basis of denominational badge, culture, or even individual church affiliation is not.    </p>
<p>We insist that Salvation is by Grace, through Faith alone, and yet we frequently place works restrictions on believers to becoming part of the official church and to function as a believer in it.  As the human race is one, and Israel is one, likewise the Church is one.  Entry into the Church is not through works or ritual, but by faith alone.  Faith not only entitles but demands that each believer partake of all the promises and responsibilities of God in Christ, including baptism and communion, and not discrimination because of age, works, denomination, church etc..</p>
<p>The problem in the Church at Corinth as addressed by Paul in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+11" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 11">1 Cor. 11</a> was division between those present at the communion table itself;  those who partook versus those who did not/could not.  Those who indulged and those looked and coveted to partake.  Therefore the sin of <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=1+Cor.+11" class="bibleref" title="ESV 1Cor 11">1 Cor. 11</a>, is not regular sin in our lives, of which we all are guilty, but the sin of disrespect of the Body and Blood of Christ, and division at the Lord’s Table itself.   It is the direct result of judging ourselves as worthy and others as unworthy, and failing to address and see the problem that we ourselves are equally totally unworthy, except in Christ.  We, as well as they can only come to God by falling on the broken Body and spilled Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, of which none of us are worthy.</p>
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