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	<title>Comments on: Talk Hard II: Defending Dissent</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-378680</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-378680</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Not too long ago I saw EWTN Fr. Peyton’s Family Theater Production’s portrayal of the Day of Pentecost. Raymond Burr played St. Peter, and other recognizable character actors from the 1950’s played other apostles. 

There they were in costume — full beards and all — in the upper room faithfully pronouncing their parts from the Gospels and the Book of Acts: “The Lord told us to wait here for the coming of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter. He will lead us into all Truth.”

Cut to Fr. Peyton, narrating from the Scripture.

Back to the Upper Room. There they all stood in exactly the same poses. St. Peter (Burr) in the same attitude and tone of voice saying something like, “The Spirit did come, just as Our Lord said he would. ” Another apostles adds, “Yes and I saw it come down as tongues of fire. And We all spoke in other languages. And you Peter preached to the Jews and converted thousands.”

Then Peter speaks to each Apostle by name, prophesying what part of the world each will preach in. And that was it. The Great Day of Pentecost treated as if the postman had just delivered the morning mail.&lt;/i&gt; -- Surfnetter

Surf, that&#039;s just PAINFUL.  &quot;Tell, don&#039;t show&quot; just like all those scenes in &lt;i&gt;Left Behind&lt;/i&gt;.  When I was on a road trip last year, I was in a motel with EWTN and checked it out.  Some sort of movie about the life of St Ignatius Loyola.  It was AWFUL -- St Ignatius, Basque nobleman, professional soldier, swashbuckler, and founder of those &quot;Vatican Green Berets&quot;, the Jesuits -- turned into a Pious Plaster Saint from some Victorian holy card.  Looks like Evangelicals &amp; Baptists don&#039;t have a monopoly on really AWFUL dramatic productions.  We Papists flake out, too.

For the best Upper Room scene in film, check out the first post-Resurrection appearance in that old TV miniseries &lt;i&gt;A.D.&lt;/i&gt;.  Jesus is dead, Judas is dead, Peter&#039;s in full depresso mode as he and the others hide out.  So he decides to start eating, passing a loaf of bread around to the others.  Close-up on the bread as it passes around, counting off.  And then the last apostle there passes it to another hand -- one with a nail-scar.  &quot;Come on, Peter, I know you&#039;re stronger than that.  After all I taught you?&quot;

Pan up.  It&#039;s Jesus, sitting there like nothing&#039;s out of the ordinary, with a &quot;Hi there; remember me?&quot; look.

Apostles freak out.  Bad.  &quot;Hee... Wah... Gik... Na... Hoo... Ha...&quot;

Jesus calms them down, shows &quot;Yes, it&#039;s Me,&quot; teaches them a bit, then passes the loaf around again.

Again we follow the breadloaf around from hand to hand, counting off until the last one hands it back to Jesus -- and nobody&#039;s there.

Great Scene.  

Jesus has this posture like he just sneaked in and wanted to see how long before they notice him sitting there, the disciples react like you&#039;d expect real people to (total freakout), and both appearance and disappearance are like actual accounts of paranormal appearances/disappearances -- you never see the appearance or disappearance, the apparition is just THERE like you didn&#039;t notice it coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Not too long ago I saw EWTN Fr. Peyton’s Family Theater Production’s portrayal of the Day of Pentecost. Raymond Burr played St. Peter, and other recognizable character actors from the 1950’s played other apostles. </p>
<p>There they were in costume — full beards and all — in the upper room faithfully pronouncing their parts from the Gospels and the Book of Acts: “The Lord told us to wait here for the coming of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter. He will lead us into all Truth.”</p>
<p>Cut to Fr. Peyton, narrating from the Scripture.</p>
<p>Back to the Upper Room. There they all stood in exactly the same poses. St. Peter (Burr) in the same attitude and tone of voice saying something like, “The Spirit did come, just as Our Lord said he would. ” Another apostles adds, “Yes and I saw it come down as tongues of fire. And We all spoke in other languages. And you Peter preached to the Jews and converted thousands.”</p>
<p>Then Peter speaks to each Apostle by name, prophesying what part of the world each will preach in. And that was it. The Great Day of Pentecost treated as if the postman had just delivered the morning mail.</i> &#8212; Surfnetter</p>
<p>Surf, that&#8217;s just PAINFUL.  &#8220;Tell, don&#8217;t show&#8221; just like all those scenes in <i>Left Behind</i>.  When I was on a road trip last year, I was in a motel with EWTN and checked it out.  Some sort of movie about the life of St Ignatius Loyola.  It was AWFUL &#8212; St Ignatius, Basque nobleman, professional soldier, swashbuckler, and founder of those &#8220;Vatican Green Berets&#8221;, the Jesuits &#8212; turned into a Pious Plaster Saint from some Victorian holy card.  Looks like Evangelicals &amp; Baptists don&#8217;t have a monopoly on really AWFUL dramatic productions.  We Papists flake out, too.</p>
<p>For the best Upper Room scene in film, check out the first post-Resurrection appearance in that old TV miniseries <i>A.D.</i>.  Jesus is dead, Judas is dead, Peter&#8217;s in full depresso mode as he and the others hide out.  So he decides to start eating, passing a loaf of bread around to the others.  Close-up on the bread as it passes around, counting off.  And then the last apostle there passes it to another hand &#8212; one with a nail-scar.  &#8220;Come on, Peter, I know you&#8217;re stronger than that.  After all I taught you?&#8221;</p>
<p>Pan up.  It&#8217;s Jesus, sitting there like nothing&#8217;s out of the ordinary, with a &#8220;Hi there; remember me?&#8221; look.</p>
<p>Apostles freak out.  Bad.  &#8220;Hee&#8230; Wah&#8230; Gik&#8230; Na&#8230; Hoo&#8230; Ha&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Jesus calms them down, shows &#8220;Yes, it&#8217;s Me,&#8221; teaches them a bit, then passes the loaf around again.</p>
<p>Again we follow the breadloaf around from hand to hand, counting off until the last one hands it back to Jesus &#8212; and nobody&#8217;s there.</p>
<p>Great Scene.  </p>
<p>Jesus has this posture like he just sneaked in and wanted to see how long before they notice him sitting there, the disciples react like you&#8217;d expect real people to (total freakout), and both appearance and disappearance are like actual accounts of paranormal appearances/disappearances &#8212; you never see the appearance or disappearance, the apparition is just THERE like you didn&#8217;t notice it coming.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin D. Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-378200</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin D. Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-378200</guid>
		<description>Hey man, we don&#039;t always agree, but this post is spot on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey man, we don&#8217;t always agree, but this post is spot on.</p>
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		<title>By: Goliath</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-378060</link>
		<dc:creator>Goliath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-378060</guid>
		<description>No, that&#039;s not what I said at all.  Stop reading what you want to see and read what is there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that&#8217;s not what I said at all.  Stop reading what you want to see and read what is there.</p>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-378019</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 00:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-378019</guid>
		<description>Goliath:  

You mean there is NO variation among individuals in any given group?  I was unaware humans (and other primates) were a hive-mind species...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goliath:  </p>
<p>You mean there is NO variation among individuals in any given group?  I was unaware humans (and other primates) were a hive-mind species&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Goliath</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-378006</link>
		<dc:creator>Goliath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-378006</guid>
		<description>Phelps is just as good of an example of a Christian as any other because one Christian is just as much of a Christian as any other Christian.  When are you people going to learn that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phelps is just as good of an example of a Christian as any other because one Christian is just as much of a Christian as any other Christian.  When are you people going to learn that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: That Other Jean</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-377955</link>
		<dc:creator>That Other Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-377955</guid>
		<description>If your example of a Bible-believing Christian is Fred Phelps, there isn&#039;t much else to say.  I hope you find other, less hate-filled Christian models.  Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your example of a Bible-believing Christian is Fred Phelps, there isn&#8217;t much else to say.  I hope you find other, less hate-filled Christian models.  Peace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Goliath</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-377804</link>
		<dc:creator>Goliath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-377804</guid>
		<description>&quot;While [the Christians here are] more than happy to teach you about their take on God, nobody here would compel you to worship Him.&quot;

Then they have no interest in the grand commission, and hence they are not bible-believing Christians, unlike, say, Fred Phelps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While [the Christians here are] more than happy to teach you about their take on God, nobody here would compel you to worship Him.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then they have no interest in the grand commission, and hence they are not bible-believing Christians, unlike, say, Fred Phelps.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: That Other Jean</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-377722</link>
		<dc:creator>That Other Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-377722</guid>
		<description>Goliath,

Maybe you&#039;ve heard a lot of Christian hate speech, but you&#039;ve picked the wrong forum to complain about it.  IMonk runs a pretty tight ship here, and doesn&#039;t put up with non-Christian bashing.  This is a bunch of people, mostly conservative Christians, trying to find their way out of the mess they have been led into by various Christian excesses/heresies/misinterpretations.  They&#039;re looking for a different take on Christianity, but not of the bashing-the-heathens variety.  While they&#039;re more than happy to teach you about their take on God, nobody here would compel you to worship Him.  Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goliath,</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;ve heard a lot of Christian hate speech, but you&#8217;ve picked the wrong forum to complain about it.  IMonk runs a pretty tight ship here, and doesn&#8217;t put up with non-Christian bashing.  This is a bunch of people, mostly conservative Christians, trying to find their way out of the mess they have been led into by various Christian excesses/heresies/misinterpretations.  They&#8217;re looking for a different take on Christianity, but not of the bashing-the-heathens variety.  While they&#8217;re more than happy to teach you about their take on God, nobody here would compel you to worship Him.  Peace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Goliath</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-377547</link>
		<dc:creator>Goliath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-377547</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;ve heard more of your Christian hate speech than I&#039;ll ever need to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve heard more of your Christian hate speech than I&#8217;ll ever need to hear.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: graceshaker</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/talk-hard-ii-defending-dissent/comment-page-2#comment-377484</link>
		<dc:creator>graceshaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2817#comment-377484</guid>
		<description>&quot;you have heard it said...but i tell you...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you have heard it said&#8230;but i tell you&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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