Comments on: Suggestions for Critics of the Emerging Church http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:35:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bob Sacamento http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-234444 Bob Sacamento Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:13:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-234444 I would highly recommend a book, "Why We're Not Emergent (by Two Guys Who Should Be)" Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck. Speaking as someone who has read alot of Brian McLaren and a good bit of Rob Bell, I find it an exceptionally fair-minded critique of the emergent movement by two guys who are doing pretty much exactly what you are urging in your five points here. Alot of the criticism of the emerging church movement *is* knee jerk and hamfisted. That doesn't really do anything to make the emergent movement better, nor does it place it out of the bounds of fair criticism. (After all, alot of the emergent criticism of evangelicalism is also knee jerk and hamfisted. By the way, you can donate the donut to charity in my name or something. My waist line doesn't need it.) We just need to be careful who we listen to. I hightly recommend listening to this pair of fair, thoughtful, informed writers. I would highly recommend a book, “Why We’re Not Emergent (by Two Guys Who Should Be)” Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck. Speaking as someone who has read alot of Brian McLaren and a good bit of Rob Bell, I find it an exceptionally fair-minded critique of the emergent movement by two guys who are doing pretty much exactly what you are urging in your five points here. Alot of the criticism of the emerging church movement *is* knee jerk and hamfisted. That doesn’t really do anything to make the emergent movement better, nor does it place it out of the bounds of fair criticism. (After all, alot of the emergent criticism of evangelicalism is also knee jerk and hamfisted. By the way, you can donate the donut to charity in my name or something. My waist line doesn’t need it.) We just need to be careful who we listen to. I hightly recommend listening to this pair of fair, thoughtful, informed writers.

]]> By: Tom Allen http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-234031 Tom Allen Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:54:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-234031 What baffles many engaged with the emerging church in the UK is why if the criticisms are so ill-informed why so many American emerging people find it necessary to "defend" what is in the eyes of the critics the indefensible - why does it matter what they think? What baffles many engaged with the emerging church in the UK is why if the criticisms are so ill-informed why so many American emerging people find it necessary to “defend” what is in the eyes of the critics the indefensible – why does it matter what they think?

]]> By: m..s http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8108 m..s Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:34:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8108 "I believe the church emerged after Pentecost. Surely part of the motivation for criticism of this movement is the fact that their being designated thus implies to some that what we have had so far was somehow less “church”, was somehow deficient." The point about the church is that we are on a journey. Pentecost was the start. The destination is seen in Ephesians 4:13: "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." I don't know about you, but I'm feeling pretty deficient already... “I believe the church emerged after Pentecost. Surely part of the motivation for criticism of this movement is the fact that their being designated thus implies to some that what we have had so far was somehow less “church”, was somehow deficient.”

The point about the church is that we are on a journey. Pentecost was the start. The destination is seen in Ephesians 4:13:

“until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.”

I don’t know about you, but I’m feeling pretty deficient already…

]]> By: m..s http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8107 m..s Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:28:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8107 geoff, fire away! I've been not been a regular at mainstream church for about twelve years, (although I was at a meeting of Christians upstairs in a pub last week where piercings and tattoos were very much in evidence). So anything you want clearing up from this side of the "great divide"(!) Great post, by the way. geoff, fire away!

I’ve been not been a regular at mainstream church for about twelve years, (although I was at a meeting of Christians upstairs in a pub last week where piercings and tattoos were very much in evidence). So anything you want clearing up from this side of the “great divide”(!)

Great post, by the way.

]]> By: geoffrobinson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8093 geoffrobinson Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:51:19 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8093 One thing that bothers me. When people either in the Emergent Movement or not say we can't be certain about things in the Bible. The authors of the books of the Bible never write like that. The apostles don't talk like that. The prophets don't talk like that. Nor does Jesus. One thing that bothers me. When people either in the Emergent Movement or not say we can’t be certain about things in the Bible. The authors of the books of the Bible never write like that. The apostles don’t talk like that. The prophets don’t talk like that. Nor does Jesus.

]]> By: wnpaul http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8090 wnpaul Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:31:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8090 I second all of the comment expressing unease with the term "emerging/emergent". I still have not heard a good explanation of what is emerging from what or from where in this movement. All of the concerns I have heard expressed have been around in the church before, albeit described with different vocabulary. I believe the church emerged after Pentecost. Surely part of the motivation for criticism of this movement is the fact that their being designated thus implies to some that what we have had so far was somehow less "church", was somehow deficient. That provokes a defensive reaction which easily turns into offensive opposition. As such it is more emotional than objective which accounts for some of the problems Michael enumerates with it. As with the ruckus over Driscoll's "incarnation" comment it can all be brought back to the use of words without due consideration of their full meaning and connotations -- a phenomenon I observe on both sides of this debate. I second all of the comment expressing unease with the term “emerging/emergent”. I still have not heard a good explanation of what is emerging from what or from where in this movement. All of the concerns I have heard expressed have been around in the church before, albeit described with different vocabulary.

I believe the church emerged after Pentecost. Surely part of the motivation for criticism of this movement is the fact that their being designated thus implies to some that what we have had so far was somehow less “church”, was somehow deficient. That provokes a defensive reaction which easily turns into offensive opposition. As such it is more emotional than objective which accounts for some of the problems Michael enumerates with it.

As with the ruckus over Driscoll’s “incarnation” comment it can all be brought back to the use of words without due consideration of their full meaning and connotations — a phenomenon I observe on both sides of this debate.

]]> By: geoffrobinson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8088 geoffrobinson Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:29:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8088 I understand that any movement has a variety of viewpoints, etc. My exposure to McLaren and internet people who gravitate towards Emergent Church has led me to this: is there anything to critique? Honestly, where would you point me? And please don't say "ongoing conversation". Negative critiques of evangelicism aren't anything new. So what are the beliefs, practices, and attitudes of the emerging movement? Frankly, I'm trying to figure out if this is another fad which will quickly wash away or if there is actually some substance to critique. I understand that any movement has a variety of viewpoints, etc. My exposure to McLaren and internet people who gravitate towards Emergent Church has led me to this: is there anything to critique? Honestly, where would you point me? And please don’t say “ongoing conversation”.

Negative critiques of evangelicism aren’t anything new. So what are the beliefs, practices, and attitudes of the emerging movement?

Frankly, I’m trying to figure out if this is another fad which will quickly wash away or if there is actually some substance to critique.

]]> By: dpaultaylor57 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8087 dpaultaylor57 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 16:07:49 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8087 "...the research department at Slice." I'm not quite sure what to make of this, but the instant reaction was for the milk on my cornflakes to go through my nose. (If it won't work, you owe me a new keyboard.) The only thing I would add to this common-sense suggestion of asking for specifics is that critics take a deep breath first and put specific quotes, passages, evidence, etc. in a meaningful context. You can be accurate in recording someone's exact words and yet miss their significance entirely, in effect straining at gnats and swallowing camels. As for Slice's research, when it comes to examples, illustrations, and evidence, it's like the Drudge Report. It emphasizes the outrageous, the egregious and the salacious, the kind of thing that gets people growling and baring their fangs. It is more visceral than reasonable, and it has little to do with "the wisdom that comes from heaven" described in James 3:17-18. “…the research department at Slice.” I’m not quite sure what to make of this, but the instant reaction was for the milk on my cornflakes to go through my nose. (If it won’t work, you owe me a new keyboard.)

The only thing I would add to this common-sense suggestion of asking for specifics is that critics take a deep breath first and put specific quotes, passages, evidence, etc. in a meaningful context. You can be accurate in recording someone’s exact words and yet miss their significance entirely, in effect straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

As for Slice’s research, when it comes to examples, illustrations, and evidence, it’s like the Drudge Report. It emphasizes the outrageous, the egregious and the salacious, the kind of thing that gets people growling and baring their fangs. It is more visceral than reasonable, and it has little to do with “the wisdom that comes from heaven” described in James 3:17-18.

]]> By: rastassin http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8078 rastassin Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:13:04 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8078 Steve thanks, you have rocked my comment world :) Steve thanks,
you have rocked my comment world :)

]]> By: matty j http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church/comment-page-1#comment-8075 matty j Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:11:32 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/suggestions-for-critics-of-the-emerging-church#comment-8075 Wow. Nice take on the flags. I almost threw up when I returned to my boyhood church (near Portland, OR of all places) a few weeks ago and there were two framed pictures of the American flag *on the communion table*. Uh...civil religion, anyone? Well, as for criticism of the emergent church in particular, I'm not that concerned about it. As you point out, it's hardly the emerging church movement that coined any of the abused terms you refer to, and anyone who reads a small amount of theology will know that. If fundamentalists get worried that it's not conservative enough, all their clamour will hardly penetrate to the community that the emerging church is reaching out to. If anything it will drive them to get an early seat for the pub discussion. Wow. Nice take on the flags. I almost threw up when I returned to my boyhood church (near Portland, OR of all places) a few weeks ago and there were two framed pictures of the American flag *on the communion table*. Uh…civil religion, anyone?

Well, as for criticism of the emergent church in particular, I’m not that concerned about it. As you point out, it’s hardly the emerging church movement that coined any of the abused terms you refer to, and anyone who reads a small amount of theology will know that. If fundamentalists get worried that it’s not conservative enough, all their clamour will hardly penetrate to the community that the emerging church is reaching out to. If anything it will drive them to get an early seat for the pub discussion.

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