I suppose only God and the test of time really know what their respective legacies will be. For mine, Spurgeon’s 150-odd year effort will be hard to beat–even with Osteen’s big smile and $95 million mortgage.

To what extent does Lakewood resemble Saddleback and “the Purpose Driven Church”? From what I’ve seen, The Rev. Warren has some of these tendencies but he is far more Biblically centered then the Rev. Osteen.

At least, from what I’ve heard. I’ve never heard the Rev. Osteen in person.

Heh … I know pastors who look to Saddleback for it’s success, and now that Lakewood is so successful, I’m sure pastors will be looking to Osteen too. Perhaps if he puts out a book called “Forty days of [fill in the blank]“, his approach too will be coming soon to a church near you, where the membership is small and the pastor is desperate.

But is that really success? Does God truly measure success by any of our metrics? Does he really care how many people warm our pews, or how much we take in at the weekly offering?

It seems like far too many pastors are far too keen to shake the dust off their feet of any church that isn’t “what’s happening now”. Rather than do the work of pastoring a flock, no matter how small, it seems that far too many would rather plant a new Saddleback clone, where the implicit message is, “If you don’t like our music or our teaching, find someplace else!” Rather than working to be a shepherd to ALL the sheep, young and old, it seems as if new churches are aiming solely at a particular demographic, and the rest of us can go get stuffed. Go to another church, or go to Hell. Except there aren’t that many churches for us .. most of them are trying to be Saddleback clones, too!

The bottom line is there seem to be a lot of sheep without a shepherd out there. And I’m not persuaded that the “target demographic” sheep are getting the best care either.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

To what extent does Lakewood resemble Saddleback and “the Purpose Driven Church”? From what I’ve seen, The Rev. Warren has some of these tendencies but he is far more Biblically centered then the Rev. Osteen.

At least, from what I’ve heard. I’ve never heard the Rev. Osteen in person.

Heh … I know pastors who look to Saddleback for it’s success, and now that Lakewood is so successful, I’m sure pastors will be looking to Osteen too. Perhaps if he puts out a book called “Forty days of [fill in the blank]“, his approach too will be coming soon to a church near you, where the membership is small and the pastor is desperate.

But is that really success? Does God truly measure success by any of our metrics? Does he really care how many people warm our pews, or how much we take in at the weekly offering?

It seems like far too many pastors are far too keen to shake the dust off their feet of any church that isn’t “what’s happening now”. Rather than do the work of pastoring a flock, no matter how small, it seems that far too many would rather plant a new Saddleback clone, where the implicit message is, “If you don’t like our music or our teaching, find someplace else!” Rather than working to be a shepherd to ALL the sheep, young and old, it seems as if new churches are aiming solely at a particular demographic, and the rest of us can go get stuffed. Go to another church, or go to Hell. Except there aren’t that many churches for us .. most of them are trying to be Saddleback clones, too!

The bottom line is there seem to be a lot of sheep without a shepherd out there. And I’m not persuaded that the “target demographic” sheep are getting the best care either.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

*Bangs head on tree*

Respectfully,

Brian P.

One of the amazing and frustrating things that I see here and across the board in evangelicalism, is the startling lack of discernment and, thanks Rick Warren…”Gospel Drivenness”…

It is driving me nuts…in all the best ways…

Anyway…never written before…I love the site…feel a good bit of brotherhood here…happy to be a part of the posse…

Grace and peace…

Having said that, I do want to sound a voice of caution to those who are speaking incredibly harshly and making comments similar to “david” who wrote that he doubts Joel Osteen is actually saved. I think Michael was more balanced in his comment that he doesn’t doubt that Osteen is a Christian, and I applaud that way of putting it.

Say what you will about his “ministry” (and boy, could I say a lot that I will withhold because it’s already been said here!) and say what you will about a “ministry” incurring such a huge debt in the name of Christ. I have serious issues with all of that. But I think, to be fair, we need to leave the determination of “saved” or “unsaved” to God alone. We can know them by their fruits, but I’m not sure that we can honestly point to Osteen’s life and say it’s bad fruit. It’s evident that he is not a “pastor”, nor a preacher of the Gospel. But that in and of itself does not require a question of his personal salvation.

Personally, I think Joel Osteen is just very misinformed as to what ministry is all about. But that’s ignorance, not being heathen!!

God bless,
steve