Comments on: Sola Fide? Yeah, Whatever. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:02:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Christina http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-4#comment-370301 Christina Tue, 03 Feb 2009 03:46:04 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-370301 I hope this isn't too far down on this thread... <i>...a number of early authors before Luther understood the sense of Romans 3:28 to mean “sola” with the word faith.</i> Apparently there is a way to see "faith alone" in Romans 3:28, at least Pope Benedict thinks so... <i>For this reason Luther's phrase: "faith alone" is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14).</i> (<a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html" rel="nofollow">Source</a>) As an aside, be <i>very</i> careful when you pray for humility. This has been my 10th lesson in a week and my knees are starting to bleed... I hope this isn’t too far down on this thread…

…a number of early authors before Luther understood the sense of Romans 3:28 to mean “sola” with the word faith.

Apparently there is a way to see “faith alone” in Romans 3:28, at least Pope Benedict thinks so…

For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true, if it is not opposed to faith in charity, in love. Faith is looking at Christ, entrusting oneself to Christ, being united to Christ, conformed to Christ, to his life. And the form, the life of Christ, is love; hence to believe is to conform to Christ and to enter into his love. So it is that in the Letter to the Galatians in which he primarily developed his teaching on justification St Paul speaks of faith that works through love (cf. Gal 5: 14). (Source)

As an aside, be very careful when you pray for humility. This has been my 10th lesson in a week and my knees are starting to bleed…

]]> By: Curtis http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-4#comment-351574 Curtis Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:08:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-351574 WlE7tGeNhhpEn WlE7tGeNhhpEn

]]> By: jimmi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-4#comment-320834 jimmi Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:13:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320834 "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life..not everyone who says to me,Lord,Lord,shall enter into the kingdom of heaven,but he that does the will of my Father" We are to hold in balance two complementary truths:without God's grace we can do nothing;but without our voluntary co-operation God will do nothing. "The will of man is an essential condition,for without it God does nothing". Our salvation results from the convergence of two factors,unequal in value yet both indispensable:divine initiative and human response.What God does is incomparably the more important,but man's participation is also required. ...The Orthodox Way..Bishop Kallistos Ware 2Peter..read its short... “Strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life..not everyone who says to me,Lord,Lord,shall enter into the kingdom of heaven,but he that does the will of my Father” We are to hold in balance two complementary truths:without God’s grace we can do nothing;but without our voluntary co-operation God will do nothing. “The will of man is an essential condition,for without it God does nothing”. Our salvation results from the convergence of two factors,unequal in value yet both indispensable:divine initiative and human response.What God does is incomparably the more important,but man’s participation is also required.
…The Orthodox Way..Bishop Kallistos Ware

2Peter..read its short…

]]> By: jimmi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320781 jimmi Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:05:42 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320781 why was God incarnate, why didn't He just descend in a glorified body and tell the world, I'm the creator believe Me and have eternity in my presence or don't and live in darkness! no need to fix your illness,just come as you are!no need for atonement, repentance,the angels could have told Abraham,Moses there was no need for all that non essential stuff,no need for all that scripture,the church,all that have died to protect His holy name.Come,come as you are as long as you believe I am who I say I am,I didn't mean it when I said, when you did not do it to the least of these you did it also to me,so no damnation for your unrepentive illness.No need to overcome death.Death just come as you are, by the way my most beautiful angel, you know who I am come no need to heal your illness either! why was God incarnate, why didn’t He just descend in a glorified body and tell the world, I’m the creator believe Me and have eternity in my presence or don’t and live in darkness! no need to fix your illness,just come as you are!no need for atonement, repentance,the angels could have told Abraham,Moses there was no need for all that non essential stuff,no need for all that scripture,the church,all that have died to protect His holy name.Come,come as you are as long as you believe I am who I say I am,I didn’t mean it when I said, when you did not do it to the least of these you did it also to me,so no damnation for your unrepentive illness.No need to overcome death.Death just come as you are, by the way my most beautiful angel, you know who I am come no need to heal your illness either!

]]> By: Memphis Aggie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320755 Memphis Aggie Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:24:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320755 Michael, Now that we found at least a small point of agreement I want to find the limits of Sola Fide. If faith alone is needed why baptize? If faith alone is needed why repent and do penance or make reparations (like return stolen goods etc)? Isn't that unnecessary? Further if faith alone includes these things to be considered true faith then what distinguishes those things from works born of faith? Finally if Sola Fide really means you don't need to Baptize or do anything else, why tithe or go to Church at all or read the Bible? Why not be fully slack? Michael,

Now that we found at least a small point of agreement I want to find the limits of Sola Fide. If faith alone is needed why baptize? If faith alone is needed why repent and do penance or make reparations (like return stolen goods etc)? Isn’t that unnecessary? Further if faith alone includes these things to be considered true faith then what distinguishes those things from works born of faith? Finally if Sola Fide really means you don’t need to Baptize or do anything else, why tithe or go to Church at all or read the Bible? Why not be fully slack?

]]> By: jimmi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320629 jimmi Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:01:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320629 so living faith is doing His will, following Him(i'm guessing that means to imitate Him),this sounds like trusting and working to me!..and if you don't you will go the way of the goats...unless you accept His grace of forgiveness by turning back to the way of the sheep(which sounds like more work to me,in way of repentance)...which tells me its better to believe in His fullness(teaching), than to sit around waiting for a free pass, that will send you with the goats...its clear to me if works reveal faith and they are living,then a good judgment by Gods "mercy" will put you in His Kingdom... so living faith is doing His will, following Him(i’m guessing that means to imitate Him),this sounds like trusting and working to me!..and if you don’t you will go the way of the goats…unless you accept His grace of forgiveness by turning back to the way of the sheep(which sounds like more work to me,in way of repentance)…which tells me its better to believe in His fullness(teaching), than to sit around waiting for a free pass, that will send you with the goats…its clear to me if works reveal faith and they are living,then a good judgment by Gods “mercy” will put you in His Kingdom…

]]> By: Mark http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320594 Mark Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:04:31 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320594 >If the God of the Bible says to me that salvation includes works, then I simply cannot be saved. I have absolutely no works at all of any kind that are in any way even approaching acceptability to God. >Faith is never alone. I made that clear. It is accompanied by many things, but if those things contribute anything to God’s view of me, then I’m not going to be saved. On a purely personal and non-theological note, I really appreciated these statements. Although I believe in grace as the singular impetus for my salvation...I still constantly attempt to somehow merit my standing with God. This is countered at other times by the surrendering and declaration to God that if He needs more, I cannot provide it and I am lost. Maybe the most honest thing one can say to God. Son of David have mercy on me is the cry of one who cannot help himself and needs Him "alone". >If the God of the Bible says to me that salvation includes works, then I simply cannot be saved. I have absolutely no works at all of any kind that are in any way even approaching acceptability to God.

>Faith is never alone. I made that clear. It is accompanied by many things, but if those things contribute anything to God’s view of me, then I’m not going to be saved.

On a purely personal and non-theological note, I really appreciated these statements. Although I believe in grace as the singular impetus for my salvation…I still constantly attempt to somehow merit my standing with God. This is countered at other times by the surrendering and declaration to God that if He needs more, I cannot provide it and I am lost. Maybe the most honest thing one can say to God. Son of David have mercy on me is the cry of one who cannot help himself and needs Him “alone”.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320569 iMonk Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:52:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320569 Many eschatological judgment passages feature works. Works reveal living faith. Faith without works is dead. Since judgment is evidentiary, the books are opened and works are reported. But faith is the premise of all works and is throughout the Bible starting with Cain, Noah, Abraham, etc. John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” Many eschatological judgment passages feature works. Works reveal living faith. Faith without works is dead. Since judgment is evidentiary, the books are opened and works are reported.

But faith is the premise of all works and is throughout the Bible starting with Cain, Noah, Abraham, etc.

John 6:29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

]]> By: jimmi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320562 jimmi Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:47:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320562 okay, tell me why does the Lord separate the goats and the sheep by their works. good works to the kingdom,no good works to everlasting damnation? okay, tell me why does the Lord separate the goats and the sheep by their works. good works to the kingdom,no good works to everlasting damnation?

]]> By: Caila Murphy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever/comment-page-3#comment-320401 Caila Murphy Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:07:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sola-fide-yeah-whatever#comment-320401 By faith alone. I am once again moved by Jesus' sacrifice and His grace. When we substitute works for grace (in the million little ways we do this) it dulls the shocking (humbling!) truth that without His grace we are doomed and damned. I'm not as excited by a salvation that comes by reading my bible every day, attending church regularly, only reading Christian authors, or thinking Obama is the Antichrist. I'm moved to my knees, and into a live-changing faith, by the life of Jesus. My husband and I often grieve the "salvation-by-works-and..." subtext in our evangelical circle of friends. It's alarming how many friends DO NOT believe in sola fide. They say they do, until we start discussing the particulars. Most times, I don't even want what they call Christianity. What you described here is like music to my ears. I'm so glad I'm not crazy. I'm so glad it only takes faith to reach Jesus, because if it took something more I'd be doomed. No matter how much "better" I am now, I know my goodness is like filthy rags. By faith alone. I am once again moved by Jesus’ sacrifice and His grace. When we substitute works for grace (in the million little ways we do this) it dulls the shocking (humbling!) truth that without His grace we are doomed and damned. I’m not as excited by a salvation that comes by reading my bible every day, attending church regularly, only reading Christian authors, or thinking Obama is the Antichrist. I’m moved to my knees, and into a live-changing faith, by the life of Jesus.
My husband and I often grieve the “salvation-by-works-and…” subtext in our evangelical circle of friends. It’s alarming how many friends DO NOT believe in sola fide. They say they do, until we start discussing the particulars. Most times, I don’t even want what they call Christianity.
What you described here is like music to my ears. I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I’m so glad it only takes faith to reach Jesus, because if it took something more I’d be doomed. No matter how much “better” I am now, I know my goodness is like filthy rags.

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