Comments on: Smelling Calvinism On My Breath: How The SBC Looks From Under The Table http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Fri, 19 Mar 2010 19:47:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: tomsmedley http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-5173 tomsmedley Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:39:25 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-5173 Just out of curiosity -- how do you see the issue of chiliaism playing out in the future of the SBC? Theodore Spurgeon, after all, was a passionate post-mil Calvinist. How long will it take to purge the "left below" contingent? Just out of curiosity — how do you see the issue of chiliaism playing out in the future of the SBC? Theodore Spurgeon, after all, was a passionate post-mil Calvinist. How long will it take to purge the “left below” contingent?

]]> By: BRLASBC http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4428 BRLASBC Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:44:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4428 Interesting blog... I am curious as to who some examples of each of the 4 categories are? Culture Warriors Texas Evangelists Young Leaders Founders Interesting blog…

I am curious as to who some examples of each of the 4 categories are?

Culture Warriors
Texas Evangelists
Young Leaders
Founders

]]> By: Alva http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4339 Alva Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4339 Your mention of a Lotte Moon offering at Christmas brought back a memory from my seventh year of life, many decades ago. I was one of five little girls wearing yellow crepe paper dresses and carrying candles held in fragile candle holders made of heavy paper. We were celebrating Lotte Moon. The fact that we were carrying fire and wearing paper may not have been alarming to some, but it was to me. As we moved up the four steps to the platform to stand as "light in dark China," symbolizing Miss Moon, I wondered what she would have thought of us. We heard that Miss Moon was the "best man the Southern Baptists ever had in China." I wondered if she would have thought that a compliment. We blew our candles out and walked down the same four steps and went to our own little missionary meeting. Afterward, oh my, what a covered dish supper we had! Southern Baptists---- You gotta love 'em. Your mention of a Lotte Moon offering at Christmas brought back a memory from my seventh year of life, many decades ago. I was one of five little girls wearing yellow crepe paper dresses and carrying candles held in fragile candle holders made of heavy paper. We were celebrating Lotte Moon. The fact that we were carrying fire and wearing paper may not have been alarming to some, but it was to me. As we moved up the four steps to the platform to stand as “light in dark China,” symbolizing Miss Moon, I wondered what she would have thought of us. We heard that Miss Moon was the “best man the Southern Baptists ever had in China.” I wondered if she would have thought that a compliment. We blew our candles out and walked down the same four steps and went to our own little missionary meeting. Afterward, oh my, what a covered dish supper we had! Southern Baptists—- You gotta love ‘em.

]]> By: Sled Dog http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4338 Sled Dog Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4338 You know, the more I thought about it, I see all three types (actually four)of groups as operational in my church, and each one is vying for direction of our church's future. I'm pretty much put off by the culture warriors. Prior to my arrival here, our church gave the PDL thing a try. Hardly anything came of it. But a few still think our future is in that kind of thing. I find myself having a foot in both the young leaders (emergent-esque) and reformer (back to the basics) camps. As Steve, it can be challenging to see what happens. One group can appear somewhat dormant, but then some shift occurs and they suddenly become quite vocal. You know, the more I thought about it, I see all three types (actually four)of groups as operational in my church, and each one is vying for direction of our church’s future. I’m pretty much put off by the culture warriors. Prior to my arrival here, our church gave the PDL thing a try. Hardly anything came of it. But a few still think our future is in that kind of thing. I find myself having a foot in both the young leaders (emergent-esque) and reformer (back to the basics) camps.

As Steve, it can be challenging to see what happens. One group can appear somewhat dormant, but then some shift occurs and they suddenly become quite vocal.

]]> By: Sled Dog http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4335 Sled Dog Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4335 Not being in the SBC, I am certainly not that in tune with all that is going on in the denomination, yet as an casual onlooker I coulnd't help but concur with what has been written. What's interesting to me is that what awareness I have about SBC has come almost exclusively through the blogosphere. Not being in the SBC, I am certainly not that in tune with all that is going on in the denomination, yet as an casual onlooker I coulnd’t help but concur with what has been written. What’s interesting to me is that what awareness I have about SBC has come almost exclusively through the blogosphere.

]]> By: Steve McCoy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4336 Steve McCoy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4336 Michael, I like your post and wonder with Joe at the future, whether younger leaders will stick around or not. I have been more optimistic about it before, but the culture warriors and revivalists are getting louder and louder. Michael, I like your post and wonder with Joe at the future, whether younger leaders will stick around or not. I have been more optimistic about it before, but the culture warriors and revivalists are getting louder and louder.

]]> By: Todd http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4337 Todd Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4337 Micheal, As always, well written and perceptive. Could there be a warning in the offing for those who would consider the solution to be, "Preaching the Word"? Since the Culture Warriors and the Texas Evangelists conflated the written word with Jesus, The Word, we seem to find ourselves in an ongoing quest for the real Jesus in the SBC. Your comment mentioning the lost referent to Jesus in the updated BFM illustrates. We have mixed objects of the Scriptural metaphor to such a degree when the phrase, "Preach the Word", is used it is less than clear. Blessings as always. Todd Micheal,

As always, well written and perceptive. Could there be a warning in the offing for those who would consider the solution to be, “Preaching the Word”? Since the Culture Warriors and the Texas Evangelists conflated the written word with Jesus, The Word, we seem to find ourselves in an ongoing quest for the real Jesus in the SBC. Your comment mentioning the lost referent to Jesus in the updated BFM illustrates. We have mixed objects of the Scriptural metaphor to such a degree when the phrase, “Preach the Word”, is used it is less than clear.

Blessings as always.

Todd

]]> By: Agent Tim http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4334 Agent Tim Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4334 Whew...quite a commentary. It was extremely interesting to me, a Southern Baptist, to read. I just returned from the Southern Baptist Executive Committee--and what I saw there was all very good. Unfortunetely, I didn't see a whole lot of discussion on calvinism, etc. I just saw the structure...and people on fire to spread the gospel. I heard a lot about New Orleans and International Missions. The one man that I met (and was on his radio show discussing blogging) was Albert Mohler. I know a lot of folks dislike some of his views, but from what I know, he's a firm Calvinist (as am I). I love the founders, as does my pastor, and our church (Southern Baptist obviously). But I agree with you--we're seeing a lot of decline in BIBLE PREACHING Southern Baptist churches in our nation. And what's the problem? Perhaps its the "seeker-friendly" movement. The feel-good gospel. A return to preaching the gospel...the Word of God...is what we really need. "We have a denomination full of zeal without knowledge. The only knowledge that matters is either pragmatism in the service of baptisms and church growth, or the wisdom of the political realm brought into the church. The "Great Commission" may be serious business, but it has become the business of getting a million baptisms any way we can, no questions asked, or getting rid of gay marriage at the ballot box." One thing leads to another--the Bible comes first. Then we'll see REAL conversions. I think we need to preach the law with love. I hope I've understood this article correctly, and if I have, I'd really like to write some more about this...especially being a young Southern Baptist. Whew…quite a commentary. It was extremely interesting to me, a Southern Baptist, to read. I just returned from the Southern Baptist Executive Committee–and what I saw there was all very good. Unfortunetely, I didn’t see a whole lot of discussion on calvinism, etc. I just saw the structure…and people on fire to spread the gospel. I heard a lot about New Orleans and International Missions.

The one man that I met (and was on his radio show discussing blogging) was Albert Mohler. I know a lot of folks dislike some of his views, but from what I know, he’s a firm Calvinist (as am I). I love the founders, as does my pastor, and our church (Southern Baptist obviously). But I agree with you–we’re seeing a lot of decline in BIBLE PREACHING Southern Baptist churches in our nation. And what’s the problem? Perhaps its the “seeker-friendly” movement. The feel-good gospel.

A return to preaching the gospel…the Word of God…is what we really need.

“We have a denomination full of zeal without knowledge. The only knowledge that matters is either pragmatism in the service of baptisms and church growth, or the wisdom of the political realm brought into the church. The “Great Commission” may be serious business, but it has become the business of getting a million baptisms any way we can, no questions asked, or getting rid of gay marriage at the ballot box.”

One thing leads to another–the Bible comes first. Then we’ll see REAL conversions. I think we need to preach the law with love.

I hope I’ve understood this article correctly, and if I have, I’d really like to write some more about this…especially being a young Southern Baptist.

]]> By: Chris http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4333 Chris Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4333 Amen. I grew up SB and still have family in the SB mega-church here in Jax. You put into words some thoughts that I've had for a couple of years now. I blogged it and it's getting discussion stirred up. Again, Michael, thanks. Amen.

I grew up SB and still have family in the SB mega-church here in Jax. You put into words some thoughts that I’ve had for a couple of years now. I blogged it and it’s getting discussion stirred up.

Again, Michael, thanks.

]]> By: Andrew Dobbs http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table/comment-page-1#comment-4323 Andrew Dobbs Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/smelling-calvinism-on-my-breath-how-the-sbc-looks-from-under-the-table#comment-4323 My thoughts, then a funny story about my adolescent run-in with the SBC hierarchy. This post was a blessing in so many ways. I have been thinking and praying about all of this a lot lately, as a discussion I had with a friend about Calvinism had me looking to the Bible. I was raised in the SBC, then took a turn towards the nondenominational movement, then I was an atheist for a long time and emerged back into my faith through Methodism and then searching elsewhere too. I always thought Calvinism sounded wrong, but when I read my Bible it became clear that Calvin had simply restored our understanding of the faith back to its Scriptural roots. I have been wanting to find a Calvinist church that isn't as staid as the Presbyterians or many of the other groups I have found. This Baptist Founders' stuff seems very promising, and I found a church in my area that ascribes to these things. I will be visiting that congregation on Sunday. Funny story time. I grew up in the North Dallas suburbs and played football for sometime, as every respectable young man from Texas is expected to do. During the offseason a real nice guy named Josh (a fellow offensive lineman, though couple of years older than me) was assigned as my weightlifting partner. We didn't know each other too well, but became friendly pretty quickly and after lifting one day we were headed back to the locker room. There he told me that his mom was headed to California for a Christian broadcaster conference, as she ran their chruch's broadcast ministry. I asked him what church he went to, and he replied Prestonwood Baptist in Plano. This church is the biggest megachurch I've seen this side of Osteen's thing down in Houston. I also knew that their pastor made something like $150,000 a year, which seemed excessive. It is important to pay pastors, but the idea of providing much more than one needs for a humble life has always caused me concern. So I said "Yeah, that church pays their pastor like $150,000 which I think is really uncool." Josh came back "Well, my Dad is the pastor..." "The head pastor?" I asked. "Yeah, Jack Graham." Not only was I embarrassed by questioning his dad's salary (though nowadays I suppose I might not be), his Dad ended up being President of the SBC! So when you all criticize the SBC's leadership online, remember that some of us have rebuked them right to their kids' faces ;-). My thoughts, then a funny story about my adolescent run-in with the SBC hierarchy.

This post was a blessing in so many ways. I have been thinking and praying about all of this a lot lately, as a discussion I had with a friend about Calvinism had me looking to the Bible. I was raised in the SBC, then took a turn towards the nondenominational movement, then I was an atheist for a long time and emerged back into my faith through Methodism and then searching elsewhere too. I always thought Calvinism sounded wrong, but when I read my Bible it became clear that Calvin had simply restored our understanding of the faith back to its Scriptural roots.

I have been wanting to find a Calvinist church that isn’t as staid as the Presbyterians or many of the other groups I have found. This Baptist Founders’ stuff seems very promising, and I found a church in my area that ascribes to these things. I will be visiting that congregation on Sunday.

Funny story time. I grew up in the North Dallas suburbs and played football for sometime, as every respectable young man from Texas is expected to do. During the offseason a real nice guy named Josh (a fellow offensive lineman, though couple of years older than me) was assigned as my weightlifting partner. We didn’t know each other too well, but became friendly pretty quickly and after lifting one day we were headed back to the locker room. There he told me that his mom was headed to California for a Christian broadcaster conference, as she ran their chruch’s broadcast ministry.

I asked him what church he went to, and he replied Prestonwood Baptist in Plano. This church is the biggest megachurch I’ve seen this side of Osteen’s thing down in Houston. I also knew that their pastor made something like $150,000 a year, which seemed excessive. It is important to pay pastors, but the idea of providing much more than one needs for a humble life has always caused me concern. So I said “Yeah, that church pays their pastor like $150,000 which I think is really uncool.”

Josh came back “Well, my Dad is the pastor…”

“The head pastor?” I asked.

“Yeah, Jack Graham.”

Not only was I embarrassed by questioning his dad’s salary (though nowadays I suppose I might not be), his Dad ended up being President of the SBC! So when you all criticize the SBC’s leadership online, remember that some of us have rebuked them right to their kids’ faces ;-) .

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