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	<title>Comments on: S.M. Hutchens&#8217; Journey: Worth Noting</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sm-hutchens-journey-worth-noting</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Jesus and Logic &#124; lingamish</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sm-hutchens-journey-worth-noting/comment-page-1#comment-499606</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesus and Logic &#124; lingamish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Disciple&#8221; that asks &#8220;Was Jesus logical?&#8221; (HT to the Internet Monk for  putting me on to Touchstone) It is a poignant reflection on our own intellectualism and I highly recommend it to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Disciple&#8221; that asks &#8220;Was Jesus logical?&#8221; (HT to the Internet Monk for  putting me on to Touchstone) It is a poignant reflection on our own intellectualism and I highly recommend it to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Beyond Words</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sm-hutchens-journey-worth-noting/comment-page-1#comment-6091</link>
		<dc:creator>Beyond Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 15:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Michael, I read some of Hutchens and appreciate his passionate, articulate voice. 

Since you said you differ from his complimentarian views, I&#039;d like to ask you a question that I would be a bit timid to ask a complimentarian. It&#039;s a question I haven&#039;t seen raised anywhere, and I&#039;m asking you because I deeply respect you.

Does it follow that if the created order before the fall was for men to be in authority and women in submission (as complimentarians assert), that women would be required eternally to submit to men even after Jesus returns, creation is restored to its former perfection, and we receive our glorified bodies? This &quot;conclusion&quot; is drawn from the assumption that pre-fall creation was perfect (I realize there&#039;s disagreement about the definition of that perfection) and that our glorified bodies will be retain gender even if we aren&#039;t sexual creatures anymore (based on Christ&#039;s resurrected body).

BTW, I&#039;m not asking you to answer based on agreement or disagreement with these statements, just wondering if the logic follows from the assumptions and hoping to generate discussion. 

I am a member of a strictly complimentarian congregation, and my pastors say they would rather be &quot;safe&quot; in interpreting scripture than risk apostasy. I appreciate their integrity, but I get so confused about what the resurrection and salvation actually mean for me as a woman. 

If we will not be gendered in eternity, then why would we as post-resurrection believers be training and equipping ourselves for roles that don&#039;t have &quot;eternal value?&quot;

If we are gendered for eternity and must follow the &quot;created order,&quot; is the rich inheritance and &quot;sonship&quot; in Christ the same for women as it is for men?

I hope this isn&#039;t too far off topic. But when we talk about &quot;Mere Christianity,&quot; these issues resonate on a deep, cellular level for all of us mind-body-spirit creatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I read some of Hutchens and appreciate his passionate, articulate voice. </p>
<p>Since you said you differ from his complimentarian views, I&#8217;d like to ask you a question that I would be a bit timid to ask a complimentarian. It&#8217;s a question I haven&#8217;t seen raised anywhere, and I&#8217;m asking you because I deeply respect you.</p>
<p>Does it follow that if the created order before the fall was for men to be in authority and women in submission (as complimentarians assert), that women would be required eternally to submit to men even after Jesus returns, creation is restored to its former perfection, and we receive our glorified bodies? This &#8220;conclusion&#8221; is drawn from the assumption that pre-fall creation was perfect (I realize there&#8217;s disagreement about the definition of that perfection) and that our glorified bodies will be retain gender even if we aren&#8217;t sexual creatures anymore (based on Christ&#8217;s resurrected body).</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;m not asking you to answer based on agreement or disagreement with these statements, just wondering if the logic follows from the assumptions and hoping to generate discussion. </p>
<p>I am a member of a strictly complimentarian congregation, and my pastors say they would rather be &#8220;safe&#8221; in interpreting scripture than risk apostasy. I appreciate their integrity, but I get so confused about what the resurrection and salvation actually mean for me as a woman. </p>
<p>If we will not be gendered in eternity, then why would we as post-resurrection believers be training and equipping ourselves for roles that don&#8217;t have &#8220;eternal value?&#8221;</p>
<p>If we are gendered for eternity and must follow the &#8220;created order,&#8221; is the rich inheritance and &#8220;sonship&#8221; in Christ the same for women as it is for men?</p>
<p>I hope this isn&#8217;t too far off topic. But when we talk about &#8220;Mere Christianity,&#8221; these issues resonate on a deep, cellular level for all of us mind-body-spirit creatures.</p>
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