Comments on: Six Floors of Sunday School….. to what end?

By: fws

fws — Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:26:04 +0000

hre is a link to a sermon by martin Luther that the Lutheran confessors considered to be the genesis of Lutheran thinking on all this. It might be helpful to amplify what pat Kyle and the good dr vieth say on vocation by reading this wonderful sermon.

this is really about the place of faith and works in the life of a christian. it is the answer to the constant question: ‘ ok what should the ‘christian life’ and ‘christian good works and outward righteousness” LOOK like visibly. OR “how do we differentiate between how the life of a christian should look versus the life of a righteous pagan?”

The scandalous Lutheran answer is that visibly there is NO difference between the outward rghteousness of a christian and that of a righteous pagan. None.

Make no mistake. THIS is what pat kyle and dr vieth are saying.

here is the Link to the Luther sermon that explains exactly why Lutheran christians believe this.

http://www.godrules.net/library/luther/129luther_e13.htm

enjoy! this isTHE go to place to learn about what Lutherans think christian piety should ‘look ‘ like. by the way, this is the sermon that forms the basis for the Lutheran teaching on the 3rd use of the law (executive summary: the 3rd use is a special use of the law for christians that tells them that there is NO special use just for christians, of the law.)

By: RonP

RonP — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:00:17 +0000

Good stuff, Mike.
I know from experience how church leadership and hyper-performance-driven Christian service can give you a nervous breakdown and leave you blasted, burned out, and cynical toward anything church-related. I’ve come to discover the importance of having an identity in Christ that is not based on or dependent upon official church activities, services, programs, or pre-paved avenues of ministry. And I think it’s important for church bodies and congregations to develop a relational identity that exists independently of the church building and all the official church stuff that happens there.
In the same way that many work-a-holics justify neglecting the emotional needs of their families in the name of providing for their physical needs and wants, I think churches often miss the relational center of the gospel in the course of trying to advance the gospel through organized hyperactivity.

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:06:11 +0000

wowâ€¦..we live in different solar systems; I think most ev. churches, certainly the ones that Iâ€™ve been part of, would glom onto any and all help they can get to keep the institutionâ€¦..erâ€¦..KINGDOMâ€¦.going forward.

Especially if the “fresh meat” is a CELEBRITY of some sort — even the local High School Football Star or Big-Name Sinner. They get thrown into fronting for the church as an Official Example, and before you know it it’s Christian Celebrity Burnout.

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:00:49 +0000

We can keep aggressively pushing for someone to â€œpray the sinnerâ€™s prayerâ€, but if we donâ€™t live every day in our jobs in a way that makes our faith seem real and attractive, who is going to have any interest in getting to that point?

Over at Slacktivist, they call that approach “Say-the-Magic-Words Salvation”.

By: Deb W

Deb W — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:56:27 +0000

Great post! I’ve been trying to sort through this whole vocation/ Christian ministry dichotomy for some time. I constantly feel guilty that I should be able to quit my job and do Christian ministry full time. It’s great to finally start to have some freedom in this area! Yeah for the doctrine of vocation.

By: Saturday links… « sacred journeys in L.A.

Saturday links… « sacred journeys in L.A. — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:53:43 +0000

[...] Six floors of Sunday school — to what end [...]

By: Debbie

Debbie — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:53:18 +0000

“I sometimes find those most immersed in church work are usually fleeing some area in life or responsibility in which they are struggling or failing.”

I couldn’t agree more and have witnessed this over and over again. One young mother comes to mind. She had four children and hauled them with her to the church every day while she did what she did…her children were neglected by her, and ran wild and totally undisciplined the many hours she was there each day. I was a brand-new Christian and it was totally obvious to me that she was avoiding being their mother. What I want to know is this…Why does church leadership condone this? Is church service so sacred that anything goes? My belief is that you should not be given church responsibility if you can’t handle your life’s responsibilities first.

By: Debbie

Debbie — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:36:33 +0000

This was a great post and I was so happy to read it and the responses, as I have been “detoxing” from church for over three years now. I had some of the same experiences…being shoved into ministry as soon as I was saved, at some point looking around me and wondering why so much ministry was happening in (and for) the church and not out in the world, and after a time becoming so burned-out and deeply resentful (and yet so judged for trying to place a firm boundary and say “I can’t possibly handle doing any more!”) that I had to leave. My faith is still very strong; in fact I believe God used this time to strengthen me in many ways. I would like to start attending a church again, yet am feeling aprehensive about being able to find one that doesn’t buy into being a “Christian Activity Center”. It’s comforting to know I’m not alone and I thank you again for the post.

By: Church and liquidity: Does the gospel of the church reflect or inform culture in America? « blog at the theotryst:a blog on Jesus Christ bursting forth in Word and sacrament and why we become what we receive

Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:03:48 +0000

[...] church.Â Learn as much as you can about law/gospel distinction such as found here and hereÂ Â and here to [...]

By: Headless Unicorn Guy

Headless Unicorn Guy — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:25:48 +0000

Even the most pious Christian outwardly can be matched by a serious Buddhist or Muslim in love and works of mercy.

Or be matched or surpassed by a Jihadi Muslim in Acts of Devotion and Acts of Faith. (And I’m not talking about 9/11 or Fort Hood or suicide bombings, but lesser acts of Islamic One-Upmanship. A lot of Jihadi mug shots show a badly bruised forehead in lieu of the “prayer bump” caused by touching the forehead to the ground during Islamic worship. Extreme Jihadis literally crack their heads against the Mosque’s floor to show everyone else how they are More Islamic Than Thou.)