Some of the things you discuss in your post made me think of how far our family has come in the last 5 years. Some of the ailments are related to Christians attempting to straddle a secular and Christian world view.

One example is diet. We have moved away from a proper diet aligned with the magnificence of what God has provided to one of many made convenience and a diet nearly devoid of nutrition. This has been reinforced by many doctors I have talked to over the age of 70 and many others older people we have been interviewing. As we have moved towards a diet more closely aligned with God’s provision we have become much healthier and sickness is significantly reduced compared to before. Yet we cry out to God to help us when we get sick and diseased although we have been pounding microwave meals in our gullet for years.

Another example is debt. Our move towards a debt based consumption society has created many of our own woes. How many times have I seen people ask for prayers for finances because they can’t make it because one spouse lost their job. They have been buying newer cars, taking vacations and eating out constantly but now I am supposed to pray for them for their bad stewardship of God’s resources. That is a small rant but my biggest prayer is that their hearts are turned to seeing what they have been doing and for God to provide. Dave Ramsey and I do not see eye-to-eye on a few things but what his business is doing in the church is phenomenal, Christians getting debt free….go Dave!

My personal goal has been helping believers to try and slowly getting their lives corrected and getting aligned with a proper Christian life that provides them the opportunity to serve God whenever and wherever he needs. Most of us live in countries that allow us to take hold of our selves and correct just the two items I have identified above yet many do not because they are too deep in the world’s system and IMO are being led down the wrong path.

Please do not read the above as a pious view as I was there a decade ago however if we do not help the people we fellowship with to get healthly _and_ serve then we are just asking unhealthy people to serve without looking at the true cause of their lack of health in many areas of their lives.

Let’s cure the cause, not the symptom.

But then I come back to my church and look around. It’s people struggling with finances, health, family problems and jobs. Ordinary Christians, many of whom aren’t particularly gifted to do much that would require assertive, outgoing, confrontational tactics. These are people who have aging parents, broken down cars, bad news on medical tests, children with drug and mental health problems and concerns about what more is going to happen to them tomorrow.

There’s a lot of trouble and brokenness among the sheep. A lot. You don’t hear that at the conferences. At the conferences you hear that the sheep need to get off their butts and get out there and be the church. But when you come back to your church, if you are a person with a heart, and not an insensitive shepherd who beats the sheep, your heart is broken for them. You want to comfort them. You want to feed them, tend them and help them find refreshing waters and green pastures.

I’ve always been torn along these lines. It’s probably why I could never bring myself to push churches to do the things that it took to be really successful. When I thought about going to ask Andy to teach a Bible study, I always thought about his problems with his teenage son and his dad’s cancer.”

We Latter-day Saints have the very same issues in our church. People are given church callings and responsibilities in the middle of difficult trials and miracles occur because of the sacrifices that members make to fulfill their responsibilities. Following the principle of sacrifice is what activates the grace of God was we work. Further, we help each other bear the burdens. We support each other. Church responsibilities are not allowed to interfere with family responsibilities.

If I was a seeker I’d rather find a place that was full of good people doing great things, not sick losers who can’t ever seem to kick that nasty little p*rn habit, or abuse habit, or whatev.

Maybe you use the word “successful” tongue in chic? Because later on of course you move on to hint at success with more clarity –the success of becoming a the healthy person, or having a rightly ordered soul. I know, the success of the GC is important; obviously it is a pinnacle of Jesus’ desires. But living well in the KOG is certainly another, and I suspect, more primary goal of Jesus, for everyone.

hope this helps
Greg R

I’m not sure where you are coming from in this conversation, but some of your word choices bother me. Like “works of power”, “moving of the spirit in tangible ways” and “bodies falling apart”.

Probably because I’m not from your background, they sound to me, that they would add burdens not take them away. Just the way, in my evangelical background, Paul being knocked off his animal on the road to Damascas was taught so much that it seemed to be the ideal conversion story. Sure, there was mention that not everyone has one like that, but that didn’t come across as strongly.

If it helps those whom you are responsible for, then may God bless it.

If you are called to go, and you don’t go, then you will have problems in your life. If you are not called to go and you go, same thing, more problems.

Sometimes Pastors want all of us to be Pastors. Study Greek and Hebrew, visit everyone, write stuff, study the Bible more, etc.

Sometime Missionaries want all of us to be Missionaries. Everyone should go somewhere and do something.

Most of us are not called to either of those two roles. Most of us.