Comments on: Sermon: In The Water With Bill Maher (A Sermon on the Baptism of Jesus) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Michael Spencer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-188569 Michael Spencer Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:06:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-188569 Tom: The reality map comparison doesn't require anyone to adopt the other person's worldview. It is "here's why Jesus is significant on my may." It's not a claim that Jesus should be significant on theirs. Obviously I think it's rational to look for clues that God may have communicated, but all I want to do with an atheist is to say, "Here's what's on my map and why it's on my map." I have no explanations or defenses for their maps. They have to live with it and defend it by the way they live, as I do with mine. So Jesus is significant for those who are open to the possibility of God. To the atheist all I can say is, "there's a lot of blank space on your map." I'd be more interested in a critique of the "certainties" of the atheist map, vs the supposed "faith" areas of mine. peace MS Tom:

The reality map comparison doesn’t require anyone to adopt the other person’s worldview. It is “here’s why Jesus is significant on my may.” It’s not a claim that Jesus should be significant on theirs. Obviously I think it’s rational to look for clues that God may have communicated, but all I want to do with an atheist is to say, “Here’s what’s on my map and why it’s on my map.” I have no explanations or defenses for their maps. They have to live with it and defend it by the way they live, as I do with mine.

So Jesus is significant for those who are open to the possibility of God. To the atheist all I can say is, “there’s a lot of blank space on your map.”

I’d be more interested in a critique of the “certainties” of the atheist map, vs the supposed “faith” areas of mine.

peace

MS

]]> By: Tom Hinkle http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-188479 Tom Hinkle Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:07:40 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-188479 Michael, You said: The difference in our “reality maps” comes down to whether God really designated Jesus of Nazareth to be the “clue” that answers the questions of significance. I guess I don't understand. If we are talking about atheists, we are talking about people who do not believe God exists. How, in the thinking of an atheist, can a non-existant being designate Jesus of Nazareth for anything? Which brings up a further question; does not a "conversion" to theism necessarily have to preceded a conversion to Christianity? In other words, doesn't one have to believe that God exists prior to believing in Jesus' significance? Michael,

You said: The difference in our “reality maps” comes down to whether God really designated Jesus of Nazareth to be the “clue” that answers the questions of significance.

I guess I don’t understand. If we are talking about atheists, we are talking about people who do not believe God exists. How, in the thinking of an atheist, can a non-existant being designate Jesus of Nazareth for anything? Which brings up a further question; does not a “conversion” to theism necessarily have to preceded a conversion to Christianity? In other words, doesn’t one have to believe that God exists prior to believing in Jesus’ significance?

]]> By: nannykim http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-188247 nannykim Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:22:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-188247 oh no--I said fiends and meant friends!! WOW oh no–I said fiends and meant friends!! WOW

]]> By: nannykim http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-186934 nannykim Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:52:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-186934 ps There is such a search of people reading Chesterton (including my husband and myself)--andy ideas why? ps There is such a search of people reading Chesterton (including my husband and myself)–andy ideas why?

]]> By: nannykim http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-186925 nannykim Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:39:22 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-186925 Very good--one of my sons is in college and he has fiends who claim to be atheist (Partly because of the suffering they have gone through in life)--but this is a sermon I hope my son will get the time to listen to as an aid to respond to some of his close friends who he grieves for...thanks Very good–one of my sons is in college and he has fiends who claim to be atheist (Partly because of the suffering they have gone through in life)–but this is a sermon I hope my son will get the time to listen to as an aid to respond to some of his close friends who he grieves for…thanks

]]> By: Jazzki http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-186262 Jazzki Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:26:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-186262 Atheism: spiritual anorexia. ;) Atheism: spiritual anorexia. ;)

]]> By: Prester Scott http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-186215 Prester Scott Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:56:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-186215 Superb. Thank you for posting. Superb. Thank you for posting.

]]> By: Scot McKnight http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus/comment-page-1#comment-186211 Scot McKnight Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:09:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sermon-in-the-water-with-bill-maher-a-sermon-on-the-baptism-of-jesus#comment-186211 Michael, I'll be interviewed this week by a Chicago TV station about the rise of vocal atheists, so your thoughts will be of some help to me. Thanks. Michael,

I’ll be interviewed this week by a Chicago TV station about the rise of vocal atheists, so your thoughts will be of some help to me. Thanks.

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