June 22, 2018

Saturday Ramblings 7.14.12

I am old enough (and I turn yet another year older on Tuesday) to remember getting up on Saturday mornings and staying glued to the TV from 8 in the morning until 11, watching the Looney Tunes cartoons. Bugs, Daffy, the Road Runner … all my favorites gathered into one nice, long program. Only after the final “That’s all, folks!” would I venture outside for baseball, bike riding, or whatever the day held. Don’t you kind of feel like Saturday Ramblings is today’s equivalent to Looney Tunes? You know you won’t be able to do anything else today until you read all of today’s goodies. And since I know you all want to get shopping for my birthday, let’s get rambling…

Oh my. YEC Ken Ham is upset with the media for making a big deal of a homeschool textbook that claims the Loch Ness Monster is real and is proof against evolution. Just because it is totally ridiculous is no reason for the “secular media” to laugh at it, says Ham. Yep, it’s all the fault of the secular media. Wait a minute. We made fun of this story as well. So what does that make InternetMonk?

Kirk Cameron has been named by the National Organization for Marriage as one of our nation’s greatest “marriage champions.” Not sure who else was in the running for the honor. “Kirk stands fearlessly in defense of God’s truth about marriage despite frequent and merciless harassment by the mainstream media for his outspoken Biblical views,” says NOM. Do you want Kirk Cameron as your marriage champion? Discuss.

In another story from our celebrity-obsessed world, it appears Katie Holmes is rejoining the Catholic Church after her divorce from Scientologist Tom Cruise. Excuse me while I yawn really loud.

Of course, the church in the U.S., Catholic and Protestant alike, just ain’t what it used to be. Oh, it still ranks above banks, public schools and TV newscasts, but confidence in churches have fallen to just 44 percent, according to a Gallup Poll. If churches ever drop below television news, well, just go ahead and turn out the lights. (Of course, they didn’t say anything about SportsCenter…)

Roving rambler Brian Shelton turns in this story about a pastor and an alligator. Says Shelton, “Apparently he didn’t have a word of knowledge that ‘gators can turn around pretty quickly.” Well, he’s a Methodist, Brian. What do you expect?

Oh my. It seems that maybe, just maybe, not all of our founding fathers and early presidents were the evangelical Christians we were made to believe they were. Stephen Prothero, a writer for USAToday, names his nominee for our “least Christian president.” Well, of course he wasn’t very Christian. He wasn’t even a Republican.

The story goes that Starbucks is opening a new Starbucks inside an existing Starbucks. That’s more believable than what rambler and birthday historian Richard McNeeley came up with this week. Tell me, is this just slightly creepy or what?

Finally, Adam Palmer and Chaplain Mike both took great delight in alerting me to this week’s “I can’t make this stuff up” story. Remember when Guitar Hero was all the rage among video game fanatics? Then came the Christian version, Guitar Praise, so that no one would have to pretend to be playing decedent rock and roll. Now think of a wildly-popular piece of technology you can buy from, oh, Amazon, and add some cheesy crap to it. Make it less usable than the one it is modeled after, but call it “safe,” and you have … look, you’re just going to have to read this one for yourself. It’s that bad. And another reason to stay out of Christian bookstores.

Happy birthday wishes went out this last week to Doc Severinsen; Ringo Starr; Marty Feldman; Jerry Vale; Kevin Bacon; Toby Keith; Dean Koontz; O.J. Simpson; Tom Hanks; Fred Savage; David Brinkley; Arlo Guthrie; Bela Fleck; Yul Brenner; Suzanne Vega; Milton Berle; Bill Cosby; Harrison Ford; and Roger McGuinn.

See anyone in that list whom you need to see a video from? (Well, Marty Feldman is close, I’ll admit.) Neither do I. Let’s close our time together by honoring what Saturday mornings are all about. Enjoy.

[yframe url=’http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MgpRBYIEuw&feature=related’]



  1. “While Ham, president of Answers in Genesis, doesn’t agree with that teaching per se, he finds it hypocritical for the secular public to mock and reject the teaching while letting other “outlandish” things slide.”

    I want to go on record that I called this one, that the YEC defense would be that Loch Ness is better evidence for creationism than evidence offered for evolution. This is more cynical-science than pseudo-science.

    • Yup the Loch Ness monster, Big Foot, etc.. are all proof that evolution never took place. Glad I am on the outside!

    • There is equally ‘convincing’ evidence that Bigfoot exists. That fact should go into these fairy tale school textbooks along with Nessie. Obviously, Bigfoot came from the Nephilim – there is a biblical basis for the existence of these elusive hominids. Wait a minute, that wound mean evolution. Oh, never mind then.

      • Well, Darwinism can’t explain the chupachabra or jackelope. That’s why scientists are afraid to discuss them.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      It’s Ken Ham.

      Ken Ham has a one-track mind.

      A one-track mind that will grasp for any possible evidence to support his YEC Party Line. No matter how fringy.

    • My daughter’s homeschool science book said that the dinosaurs were buried by Satan to confuse us. Being in a family of scientists, we promptly tossed that book and taught her science ourselves.

      • WHAT?!? Please tell me you are not serious …

        • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

          I’m sure they’re serious. I’ve heard of that trope before. First in Kooks by Donna Kossy, then here and there on blogs like this.

          Jeff, you’ve been in-country in the Xian bookstore racket. You’ve seen Ken Ham in action. You’ve seen horror stories of Christianese Homeschooling gone lunatic. Is it really such a stretch?

          Might want to track it down…

          LA? Can you contact Jeff through the “Write to Jeff Dunn” link above and pass him the detailed information on that Christianese Homeschooling textbook — Title, Author, Publisher, Distributor? This looks worth an investigation.

        • Oh, yes, people believe this. Here where I live in middle America, I have heard otherwise intelligent people say this to me. Boggles the mind.

      • So does that mean that, by accepting dinosaurs (in the case of the Loch Ness Monster), Ken Ham is accepting Satan?

  2. petrushka1611 says:

    The ending on the cartoon was brilliant!

    And, since it’s Bela Fleck’s birthday week, I feel led of the Spirit to post New Grass Revival covering a Townes van Zandt song, with solos from Fleck, Sam Bush, and Pat Flynn.


  3. Tim Becker says:

    I’ll be danged if Ringo didn’t get dissed. Here you go Mr. Starkey.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATQ9KcELAJQ&feature=related

  4. Richard McNeeley says:

    Senseless violence in a Saturday morning cartoon, oh how I miss it.
    Cheech Marin and Christine McVie had birthdays this week
    Really the Edifi, I read about it but still don’t believe it.
    The gator let go, I guess he didn’t get enough meat with a Methodist Pastor.

    The best quote from our least Christian president.
    “Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. We have called by different names brethren of the same principle. We are all Republicans; we are all federalists.”

  5. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    “Kirk stands fearlessly in defense of God’s truth about marriage despite frequent and merciless harassment by the mainstream media for his outspoken Biblical views,” says NOM. Do you want Kirk Cameron as your marriage champion? Discuss.

    The same Kirk Cameron who is extreme neurotic even by showbiz standards?

    Who requires his wife as a stand-in for any kissing scene he does “to prevent adultery”?

    Who when he found out there were Heathens on the set of Left Behind: the Movie hid out in his greenroom trailer to keep from being contaminated?

    Who co-starred with Ray Comfort in the infamous “Banana Video”?

    • While I agree that the idea of a “marriage champion” is ludicrous, and have intentionally avoided the left behind movies (or Fireproof for that matter!), I wonder about the kissing/acting business, and am not sure that this isn’t a commendable stance. The relationship between the Christian and the acting profession has always been fraught with difficulty since the time of the early church. What level of physical intimacy is acceptable between a married man or woman with someone who is not their spouse? Is what would be considered adultery in any other context acceptable if it is just “acting”? My first reaction on hearing Cameron’s take on this was to dismiss his perspective as ridiculous and extreme. However, on further reflection I am not so sure and am hesitant to brand this behavior as neurotic. From our cultural vantage point it is easy to make fun of this, but then it is also possible that our culture could be wrong. At the very least, it should be an open point of discussion and I find that (on at least this issue) I can respect his stance. The green room trailer issue, on the other hand, if true is a different story…

      • > I wonder about the kissing/acting business, and am not sure that this isn’t a commendable stance.

        +1 I’ve always felt that those who dismiss the trouble with fake-intimacy are being nieve, and possibly doing so just to avoid taking an ‘uncool’ position. I question the existence of fake-intimacy; look how many young actors and their co-starts ‘hook up’ or get married [and then divorced]. You can almost assume a young actress will ‘hook-up’ with her first co-star.

        > The relationship between the Christian and the acting profession has always been fraught
        > with difficulty since the time of the early church.

        And now we either are comfortable with it, or pretend to be. Is it possible that the relationship between a practicing Christian and some professions aren’t just inherently problematic? Call me old-school, I think it would be very hard to be a practicing Christian and an actor without being extremely hypocrytical. I know that whenever I hear and actor/actress talk about ‘their faith’ it is hard not to think “ok, yeah, but…”. There is a lot of convenient-thinking and hiding behind a do-not-be-legalistic placard.

        > What level of physical intimacy is acceptable between a married man or woman with
        > someone who is not their spouse?

        Very little. But we’ll stretch the circle in order to seem cool.

        > Is what would be considered adultery in any other context acceptable if it is just “acting”?


        > My first reaction on hearing Cameron’s take on this was to dismiss his perspective as
        > ridiculous and extreme

        Agree. But like you I’m suspicious of that reaction.

        • I was watching To Have and Have Not with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall last night. That movie has some great romantic chemistry, and without any graphic scenes – just banter and a little kissing. Then I watched the extras and found out that Bogart and Bacall started an affair on the set while Bogart was married. It raises some serious questions about romance in movies.

        • I don’t think we should say a faithful Christian can’t be an actor, though. I’m sure it’s difficult, but Jimmy Stewart managed. I also have friends who are actresses, though in theater and small indie films of course.

        • The decision is his business (and his wife’s, of course). Incidentally, Neal McDonough (Catholic) follows the same policy. Yes, he has lost parts over this, but I admire him for sticking to principle and doing what’s best for his marriage (without condemning the majority who make different choices). Isn’t this refreshing in a sea of Tom Cruises?

          • Yes, I believe that’s the Catholic actor I was thinking of. He was castigated on the internet for turning down a make-out role when he had played killers in the past.

      • I’m no Cameron fan, but I agree. Should you really be kissing something to whom you’re not married? You might say “it’s just acting”, but you are still actually kissing them and in some cases actually rubbing all over them. That’s the difference between someone playing a violent role and playing a sexual one (there was one Catholic actor a few years who played killers but wouldn’t play a role where he’d have a hot-and-heavy scene with an attractive actress, and people said he was a hypocritical prude) – in one case you are pretending to kill someone, in the other you are really becoming physically intimate with someone.

        And for every kiss you see on screen, they kissed many more times because of multiple takes. It’s not at all uncommon for illicit relationships start on the film set. I don’t want to draw an absolute line here, but I don’t think we should be dismissive of people who think it’s going too far.

        • > You might say “it’s just acting”, but you are still actually kissing them and in some cases
          > actually rubbing all over them. That’s the difference between someone playing a violent
          > role and playing a sexual one

          And it is the difference between ‘pretending’ to do something the vast majority of people find appealing / pleasurable and something at least a large proportion of people would find repugnant; I doubt many people get a physical pleasure from pretending to brutalize someone [although that can probably get weird as well in some cases].

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        Kirk Cameron shows every sign of having been catechized in a church that defines Holiness and Godliness and Salvation primarily in NEGATIVE terms — all “Thou Shalt Nots”. That produces what my church calls “Excessive Scrupulosity” — an obsessive/compulsive preoccupation with keeping your nose squeeky-clean so you pass God’s litmus test and don’t get Left Behind.

        This isn’t Godly Sexual Morality, it’s FEAR of Heathen Contamination. The same reason behind the Edifi and GodTube and Praise Ponies and Christian Chirp and all the “Just like Fill-in-the-blank, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!” pop culture knockoffs in the Evangelical Circus. I don’t see a Christian celeb taking a stand for sexual morality; I see an actor so neurotic about committing any sin that he’s flipped completely in the opposite direction. Maybe he has a lot of guilt from his career before whatever conversion experience he had. Maybe he’s just neurotically fearful. Theater arts types are not the most stable personalities. (Written by a guy who’s not wrapped all that tight himself.)

        St Rose of Lima’s followers either mistook her self-destructiveness for holiness or thought she was holy BECAUSE she was so self-destructive (fitted right into the extreme ascetic mortification of the time) instead of she was holy in spite of it. Don’t make the same mistake re Kirk Cameron’s behavior — Christians get pretty messed up about anything to do with sex (just in a different direction) and his might be due to other reasons than Godliness.

    • Maybe he should be a Muslim HUG…then he could have women wear burkas, and also lock them away. The Taliban serves as a model…

  6. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    Now think of a wildly-popular piece of technology you can buy from, oh, Amazon, and add some cheesy crap to it. Make it less usable than the one it is modeled after, but call it “safe,” and you have … look, you’re just going to have to read this one for yourself. It’s that bad.

    “Edifi — Just like iPad, Except CHRISTIAN(TM)!”

    Is Gilderoy Lockheart plugging it on TBN?

    • Richard Hershberger says:

      So far as I can tell from the article, this tablet is “Christian” because it comes loaded with a bunch of Bible translations and a crippled browser. It is easy enough to load the Bible onto a regular browser, and I believe there are software packages available to cripple the browser, if you really want to. This is pretty weak tea, even by the standards of the industry.

      • By this principle, it should be possible to create a Christian Ferrari by adding a few decorations and hobbling the accelerator.

    • I really don’t see the point of the Edifi. If they want to have an app for Bible translations, that’s a completely different thing, but you don’t need to invent your own tablet.

      What next – Christian milk from Christian cows raised by Christian farmers and fed only on grains named in the Bible and sold only in Christian stores so no trace of contamination by secular or heathen products?

      • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

        1) Don’t give them ideas!

        2) Steve Taylor already anticipated you with “Guilty by Association”:

        “…And you’ll only drink milk
        If it comes from a Christian Cow…”

      • David L says:

        Going back over 10 years ago I used to listen to “Christian radio” at times while driving. I had to totally give up when they started pushing Christian health food supplements. Especially the ones for ADD and other medical issues. Way better than secular supplements according to the ads.

      • Damaris says:

        And how about Scripture bread? A company called Food for Life makes “Ezekiel 4.9” bread. Here’s the link if you don’t believe me! http://www.foodforlife.com/about-us/history

        • Well, in their defense I don’t believe they set out to create a ‘Christian’ bread so much as they set out to create a healthy sprouted grain bread. It isn’t really a copy of anything and they pretty much corner the market on sprouted grain products as opposed to trailing along behind someone.

  7. Headless Unicorn Guy says:

    Roving rambler Brian Shelton turns in this story about a pastor and an alligator. Says Shelton, “Apparently he didn’t have a word of knowledge that ‘gators can turn around pretty quickly.”

    Reminds me of this little ditty from my high school days.

  8. David L says:

    Ken Ham say tomato we say tomato.

    he finds it hypocritical for the secular public to mock and reject the teaching while letting other “outlandish” things slide ,,, Many secular science textbooks still teach outdated and debunked ideas like the supposed “horse evolution” series

    I guess outlandish, outdated, and debunked has to do with where you sit. Oh, well.

    • Just out of curiosity, what is the current status on horse evolution? Has the series we see in all the textbooks been legitimately superseded/falsified (or, for that matter, received added nuances), or does he mean debunked by ‘creation scientists’?

      • Some horses are finally starting to make oatmeal.

        And some are starting to drive crude vehicles with internal combustion engines (like the one I drive).

      • Richard Hershberger says:

        Stephen Jay Gould used to use the horse series as an example of bad imaging leading to misunderstanding. As I recall, the point was that it shows just a linear series of species, leading up to the five(?)(it’s been a while) modern species in the genus. He argues that this is misleading, because there were large numbers of branches that don’t survive, and the iconography makes it look like a main trunk series with some more or less irrelevant minor side branches that don’t go anywhere, rather than the five we have being just the ones that happened to survive.

        There is a long tradition of creationists taking the writing of Gould and misunderstanding it, claiming that he somehow proves their point. So my guess is that this is a garbled version of Gould’s commentary. He didn’t dispute the facts of the series, but rather how it is depicted.

      • “Just out of curiosity, what is the current status on horse evolution?”

        Wilbur Post owned a talking one in the 60s, but few have been noted since then. Is that reverse evolution?

        • Glue is proof that evolution exists! 😛

          • petrushka1611 says:

            A community theater I’ve done some music work with put on a vaudeville show a few years back. At one point, I charged out onstage with a jug of wood glue under my arm and proclaimed, “I’ve got Mister Ed in a headlock!”

        • petrushka1611 says:

          I suddenly had an idea of creationists mixing technological evolution and talking horses and inventing the Mister Edifi.

      • dumb ox says:

        Secretariat on The Late Show with Craig Ferguson seems pretty intelligent.

        • Of course, using the Nessie analogy, unicorns are proof that horses didn’t evolve. 😛

  9. Edifi?

    Jesus and others exhorted people to imitate them – not pop culture… This is more than a reason to stay out of Christian bookstores – it’s a reason to put on sackcloth and ashes and weep and wail at the spiritual illiteracy, gullibility and sheer pagan banality of some (or many) of todays professing ‘christians’…

    • Andy, I tend to agree with you. For some reason, this product has pushed me over the edge. I want to run from all things labeled “Christian” at the moment. No, not from Jesus. No, not from real life with my brothers and sisters learning to walk through a broken world. But anything that uses Jesus to try and get a dime from my pocket.

      And yes, HUG, Gilderoy Lockhart would be the perfect spokesman for this. Of course, I doubt he would know how to even turn it on, but other than that …

    • Some of us mentioned this on BHT, but the Tablet is just a 2-year old Android device with an older version of Droid on it. They threw together a few apps you can get for free online and called it their own.

      You can roll your own tablet with a newer device, and find better app: Mission St. Clare, Ancient Faith Radio, a favorite Bible, Spotify or Pandora so you aren’t stuck listening to the same 10 worship songs that are only 18 months old….

      • An older version of Android? I guess the words its consumers will utter when it runs slowly, freezes up, crashes, and won’t load newer apps won’t exactly “edifi”. I suppose only a carnal, luke-warm Christian would even want to install additional apps on the edifi.

        Perhaps there will be instructions on how to jailbreak your edifi. Maybe someone can put together an alternative Android distribution for it. Call it the “backslide”.

        • YES!!

          Jailbreaking (or technically “rooting” on an Android) your Edifi should be called “backsliding.” Thread over.

  10. Adrienne says:

    Happy Birthday Jeff! Great to start my Saturday morning off once again with good old Wile E. Coyote ~ one of the most creative geniuses on earth. Not to mention persistent. Thanks for the chuckles.

  11. Totally agree that waking up to imonk is like waking up to Saturday morning cartoons when I was a child. Only now it’s with coffee…

    Happy birthday and thanks for the most inspirational site online.

  12. I don’t want Kirk Cameron as my “marriage champion.” Fireproof is an awful movie that teaches men to submit to their wives while the “better half” need not even apologize for an emotional affair and self-righteous posturing. I’m not going to ramble, so mosey on over to Dalrock’s blog and search Fireproof for an excellent deconstruction of this movie.

    I’d say that Eddard and Catelyn Stark are a much better depiction of a marriage in fiction.

    • Cedric Klein says:

      I think the point of the movie is that the husband was neglecting to love his wife as he should & this led to her failures, BUT you make a good corrective point- tho I think she was indeed repentant. Btw, I like FIreproof. And it’s MUCH better than the Left Behind films. (I’m not anti-Rapture films- I like Parts 2-4 of Cloud Ten’s APOCALYPSE series and I am a fan of the Thief In the Night series- tho I am now a Late Tribber Rapturist when I’m not a Partial Preterist.)

    • Should men not submit to their wives, then? For example, when the Mrs. asks me to do something, should I do it, or do I need to remind her who’s boss?

  13. It was also Julie Miller’s birthday last week. She and her husband Buddy have been doing great music for decades.

    Here they are covering Mark Heard:

    And her own “All My Tears,” which has been covered plenty of times:

  14. As far as KC, I am willing to give him some slack. The taste of the objections to Cameron are weak and seem based more in failures of someone at least headed in the right direction as opposed to someone who ought to know better and is going backwards or off the reservation on key doctrine, practice or hermeneutics.

  15. Starbucks in the funeral home – they’ll make a killing.

    Katie Holmes left the land of the Stepford Wives. Go Katie!

    Of course Loch Ness is real. Napoleon Dynamite drew his picture and showed us all what he looks like.

    Happy Birthday, Jeff.

    • petrushka1611 says:

      “Would you like me to leave a little room in your coffin for cream and sugar?”

    • Margaret Catherine says:

      My town has a coffee shop in what used to be a funeral parlor. They roast their own beans, and there is great and endless speculation about the equipment…

  16. OK look now – don’t get all upset about the Starbucks moment. We in SC don’t have a lot of experience in setting up new trends . I mean look at our last big trend – secession. That was . . . well, I mean, it has taken us over 100 years to try something else new.

  17. dumb ox says:

    “Jefferson must have been tempted to use his inauguration day to strike back at his Federalist opponents, who during the election of 1800 — the most venomous in U.S. history — had called him the ‘great arch priest of Jacobinism and infidelity.’ ” – Stephen Prothero

    The more things change, the more things stay the same.

    “Lionized by Glenn Beck and other social conservatives, Barton is a culture warrior driven by desire rather than by evidence. As a result, his writing is more ‘truthy’ than ‘truthful’…But my aim is not to criticize Barton. It is to make sense of his many fans. Why is such a slipshod historian so widely read by so many Americans?” – Prothero

    I think he answered his own question before he asked it. Everything is fair game if means victory in the cultural war. Truth is just an inconvenient casualty.

    “This fervent factionalism is not confined to politics and law, however. It is leeching into science and history. As musician David Byrne of the Talking Heads once put it, even facts now have a point of view.” – Prothero.

    So true.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      I think he answered his own question before he asked it. Everything is fair game if means victory in the cultural war. Truth is just an inconvenient casualty.

      How does that differ from Communist Propaganda?

      • dumb ox says:

        Does it matter? Enlist any weapon or tactic to win the war.

      • David L says:

        How does that differ from Communist Propaganda?

        Bottom up compared to top down. Loosely.

        People with claims of authority who say what many want to believe are always believed more than those who don’t say what people want to hear.

  18. Family Christian may see the writing on the wall by offering the edifi. What will be the future of Christian bookstores in the age of ereaders? Family Christian has also released the “FC Reader”, which may be their answer to rival services, such as Kindle and Nook. So, I give them some credit for innovation. But how do I purchase my Christian coffee cups? Perhaps there’s an app. for that. Do they have a Christian music download store for my incessant need for really bad music? I just don’t think the Christian marketing ghetto will survive the age of ecommerce, where choice, price, and convenience are what matter. If this move by Family Christian has any real marketing strategy behind it, they probably should have invested in a more robust tablet platform than the Cydle M7 Multipad.

    It seems like the iPad is the tablet/ereader choice among Christians I know.

    • Over on Inquisitr, they had the following amusing comment in their review of the edifi:

      “When we hear the world ‘Tablet’ in historical references to Christianity this typically isn’t what we think of.”

      Moses should have been ample proof of what happens when you drop your tablets; therefore, the only “biblical” answer is for Christians to stick with paper books.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

      I just don’t think the Christian marketing ghetto will survive the age of ecommerce, where choice, price, and convenience are what matter.

      They might be able to by threatening Loss of Salvation/Hellfire/Damnation if you use a Heathen tablet instead of a CHRISTIAN(TM) Edifi. If not Hellfire & Damnation, then Second-Class Christian status and Shame at the Bema. Not Really a Christian…

      Only HEATHENS use Secular Tablets, and all that. You know the drill — you’ve seen it so many times in the Evangelical Circus, and they’ve been polishing and refining Christian One-Upmanship for a LONG time.

  19. Here’s more fuel for the Grace vs. Works bonfire. Would love to see MIke’s take on this.


    Up until now I’ve often enjoy Witherington’s writing, even if I disagree with his take on some political and theological issues. I’d generally consider myself an Arminian. I agree that homosexual relationships are immoral. The problem with this article is that it’s the most bold-faced assertion I’ve ever seen that it’s our good works that keep us saved. It feels like a complete repudiation of the Gospel courtesy of the do-more-try-harder crowd. The good news becomes the bad news for people like me. I’m convinced that I’m a sinful enough person that if God is banking on my good behavior to keep me saved, there’s not much hope for me. One thing’s for sure, I certainly won’t be visiting his blog or buying any more of his books.

  20. This is an interesting discussion this weekend over at Wartburg Watch. It’s about John Piper and Doug Wilson. John Piper believes that Doug Wilson “has got the gospel right…”

    Doug Wilson teaches that rape on women is God’s justice, has called for the rounding up and exterminating gays. And if that’s not enough…wait to you hear his views on slavery! 😯 As a Neo-Confederate he published a book called “Southern Slavery: As It Was” that defended slavery in the south and said that it was good institution for blacks. This book has been condemned by some of the leading historians researching and writing about slavery at the University of Maryland, Duke and Stanford.


    Way to go John….wonderful discernment. I guess we’re going to see the Biblical justification on genocide next…

    • Wilson came from Idaho. Read: Bryan Fischer.

    • According to the wiki on Doug Wilson, he contributes to R.C. Sproul’s table talk? Come on, Calvinistas. Wake up before every last shred of credibility is gone.

    • Cedric Klein says:

      Ya know, it was the IMonk himself who for years defended Doug Wilson against charges of racism & misogyny, and I assume he read everything that prompted these charges. Of course, some time after Spencer’s passing, the link to Blog and Mablog was purged from the BlogRoll. I have no great passion for
      Doug Wilson. I read B&M occasionally and note with interest that even the beacon of Evangelical Moderation- Christianity Today- does not consider him beyond the pale. But then again, I am also an Arminian, hopeful Universalist who wavers between PreMillism & Preterist PostMillism.

      But don’t let me interfere with the latest Two-Minute Hate against Emmanuel Goldstein (aka Doug Wilson & John Piper.)

      Seriously, someone has to eventually deal with his grudge against John Piper before it drives him nuts.

      • Cedric, Cedric, Cedric, Cedric…..

        Yes as long as we go down that road the original I Monk also liked John Piper and Sovereign Grace. If you look in the archieves you can also see he had good things to say about Mark Driscoll. Times change and some of these people have become so full of themself.

        I, for one, can not think of any redeeming factor to saying that slavery is good for the black race. When you consider the history, the fact that for the first half of our country’s history blacks were considered property and the Bill of Rights didn’t apply to them it’s horrifying. Then you add the Civil War which I would consider to be the defining moment of our nation’s history. And 150 years later we still live with the scars of the Civil War. Then you add Jim Crow laws, segregation, etc.. and its only been a couple fo generation that blacks have been able to vote in some parts of this country – the United States; which claims to be a model of democracy and human rights in the free world.

        There is no redeeming quality unless you are a plantation owner in need of a free work force. Slavery is a stain on our nation’s history. And will some Christians worked at ending it, others used the Bible to defend it. The SBC was founded on the principle of defending slavery. So parts of Christianity is stained by it also.
        So why would John Piper hold up the theology of e Neo-Confederate? Again..it blows my mind that someone would be saying this in the 21st century after all the blood this nation has bled over slavery.

        And in many ways it neutralizes some of what The Gospel Coalition has said on racism. Slavery is not healthy, its not good. It’s stained the conscience of this country and should be remembered with a heavy heart. Not by trying to lift it up and embrace it.

        • Thanks to slavery, African black populations became established in the Americas as well. So I’d say it was good for “the black race.” (What’s good for the race might well involve suffering for the individual, e.g. childbirth and child-rearing.)

          • Well, that would be based on the assumption that the African black population WANTED to be established in the Americas. That they are, in fact, better off for being established here. That sort of thinking is a bit colonial.

          • Headless Unicorn Guy says:

            Whitey Knows Best?

        • Eagle, it appears that TWW’s discussion is a bit short on fact-checking. Douglas Wilson is not an advocate of either racism or slavery.


          • I fly out in 5 hours to the west coast and I am researching the issue. (LOL) I see on Doug Wilson’s website he’s claiming that he’s endorsed by Eugene Genovese. Now…I am not sure but let me give you a perspective of a former grad student.. When in grad school I spoke with those working on PHDs. Or even professors that knew other professors. Eugene Genovese is the authority on slavery in the south. My prof encouraged us to read, Roll Jordan Roll. However, I never did that because for 4 monthes I had a book a week to read. Try reading a 500 page book like Jarod Dimond’s “Guns, Germs & Steel” in a week. Thank fully there are reviews in historical journals.

            Yeah..I don’t miss grad school. It was a lot of work.

            But getting back to Wilson. I find it hard Genovese would quickly endorse a book by him. Anyone who is anyone writing on the south, pre-Civil war era would want to seek his advice and approval on a book. Its like anyone writing a Cold war history wants the approval of John Lewis Gaddis. Presidential history? Then they go to Robert Dallek.

            But there has to be more to the story.Becuase given Wilson’s history and what he has taught and propogated I still find it hard to believe that the most prominat Slavery historian would recommend it.

            It would be akin to the John Birch Society writing a pamphlet on Godless atheist communism during the Cold War and asking for John Lewis Gaddis to approve it. I don’t see that happening either.

          • Well, believe it or not, it is actually possible for a Calvinista to change their position on something. Especially when it’s convenient. Maybe Wilson is lying about his endorsement, but I doubt it. It’s more likely that the bad stuff in the first book was by his co-author, and he obviously eradicated it for his second publication. Still, shame on him for publishing the first volume and attaching his name to it in the fist place. That is sloppy at best, and possibly an endorsement. Has he publicly recanted or rejected the former err? I don’t know, but I am sure that either for image or from conviction, Wilson does not currently endorse slavery. Dee’s warning that he can be a chameleon is duly noted, but I’ve never heard him touch those issus in over a year of his preaching. I don’t listen to him any more (Lutherans have a 15 minute attention limit, he preaches enough in one sermon for a month), but I occasionally catch snippets of stuf he does, like with Hitchens. If Hitchens couldn’t tear him apart on these issues, I think he’s got his act together.

  21. I can’t believe you missed Woodie Guthrie’s birthday celebration. Shame. July 14, 1912.

  22. Juniper says:

    1) You go on and make fun of Ken Ham all you want. His silliness masquerading as education needs to stop.
    2) I looked at the Edifi. Why doesn’t the label say “crappy product pimped for an allegedly Christian market?”
    3) Kirk Cameron . . sigh.


  23. dumb ox says:

    Ok, Chaplain Mike, what does this cartoon teach us about vocation? 😉

    • Joseph (the original) says:

      well clearly…if you are going to be wolf, don’t be doing it in a fake wardrobe. no sheep’s clothing, okay? punch in & punch out (pun intentional) without trying to be something you are not. embrace your ‘wolfness’ regardless of the very negative results. don’t upset the natural order when sheepdogs put the grand kibosh on your lamb chop pursuit. no stealing. use your wolf skills at honest labor, then buy yourself a few pounds of lamb chops at the neighborhood market (support the local guys)…

      why, this cartoon is filled with theological nuggets of truth if one just pushes away the wool over that has been pulled over their eyes, or the hair from the sheepdogs eyes…




  24. And to think these were my first introduction to great classical music